Morning thoughts: Popular Leather & Wait Times ....

[Data]

I recently entertained myself about purchasing a standard "Milt Sparks" Pocket Holster ... and so I was checking out the price, and wait time. As most of you might know, Milt Sparks Holsters is a top notch and popular leather crafter located in the PNW ... Furthermore, their website stated that there is a 35 to 39 week waiting period. I was a bit a disappointed, but then again I am not really surprised by it. I think it's safe say that Milt Sparks Holsters have reached cult status. And so I ditched the idea a potential purchase. As a result, I might entertain another brand.

Hands down "Pocket Carry" is my daily go to and favorite. I own several brands of holsters.

1. Mika
2. Uncle Mike's
3. Kramer Leather

The Mika Pocket Holster is the most reliable and functional holster I have ... which is my absolute favorite of all time.

The Uncle Mike's Holster is the lightest, and prints the least.

As for the Kramer(s) they work, but are much more pleasing to the eye. There is a learning curve for the Kramer, when it comes to drawing!

Coincidentally, Kramer Holsters now have an "estimated" wait time of 14-16 weeks. Prices have gone up as well. They are listed at $125.00 per holster. Ugh!

Perhaps, I am just gripping away here, or maybe it's the house brand coffee I am drinking this morning. :P

Does anyone have good or perhaps bad experiences with top notch leather makers?

[mckenney99]

I think you have weeks and months confused.

[Data]

@ mckenney99

Thank you. : )

[madmikeb]

I pretty much use Kramer Horsehide Belt Scabbard's exclusively. Last one I ordered in February and I think it was July before I received it. They are always worth the wait though.

[BAM-BAM]

Check out Don Hume; currently 25% off sale and I got a 721 holster in <2 weeks .

[RobertJ.]

Last time I ordered a Simply Rugged holster it arrived two weeks before the estimated date of delivery.

But I have no experience with Milt Sparks.

[s&wchad]

I've tried a number of pocket holsters. I carried in a Kramer for decades, but switched to a Milt Sparks a few years ago. It doesn't fit well in all pockets, so the Kramer still gets used.

Most of these were purchased at gun shows over the years for pennies on the dollar. You might watch the auction sites. Nice used ones occasionally show up for about half MSRP.

[Malysh]

I ordered a Kramer IWB #3 on April 28th. It is still not done.
I've been using Kramer holsters (and Sparks) since 1993-1994 so I'm not going to call and complain to them, but I'm disappointed at the current extreme wait times.

To be fair to the customers, Greg should change the advertised wait times from 14-16 weeks to a more realistic estimate.

Oh, well

[BAM-BAM]

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Check out Don Hume; currently 25% off sale and I got a 721 holster in <2 weeks .

Ordered a 726 for Sig 229/245 on Saturday..... just got a email that it shipped

[ramprat]

I just ordered a 1920 "Cross Draw" holster for my S&W Model 19 snub from El Paso Saddlery. They advise to expect 14-16 weeks for completion and delivery. I've purchased from them twice before and their time estimation is pretty spot on. I ordered this holster as a birthday present to myself. My birthday is in early March.
Gary

[fiasconva]

Have you looked at Lobogunleather's wait time? They do excellent work.

[BabaBlueJay]

Originally Posted by Malysh

I ordered a Kramer IWB #3 on April 28th. It is still not done.
I've been using Kramer holsters (and Sparks) since 1993-1994 so I'm not going to call and complain to them, but I'm disappointed at the current extreme wait times.

To be fair to the customers, Greg should change the advertised wait times from 14-16 weeks to a more realistic estimate.

Oh, well

Yikes.... I ordered in June so that does not bode well for me I called once just to see that I was not forgotten and the sweet lady on the phone was so apologetic. I feel they are worth the wait but it is a bit frustrating to see a lead time that does not match reality.

I second the post about Lobo. I ordered my Lobo after the Kramer and it came last week. Lobo customer service is awesome and I was kept in the loop every step of the way.

[Malysh]

I finally received my Kramer IWB #3 for my P365 today. As usual, a beautifully made holster. It was 6 months 2 weeks until delivered.

I also ordered a belt scabbard for my 2.5" Python on Oct. 8th. Judging from this one, I won't have the Python holster until April 2024 🙄

[Malysh]

And yes, Kim, Greg's wife, who runs the office and takes the calls, has always been very nice.
I've been buying holsters from Kramer (and Sparks) since 1993/1994.

[joespapa]

I’ve been lost since my go-to Bell Charter Oak (Lefty Lewis) has been gone .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BabaBlueJay]

Originally Posted by Malysh

And yes, Kim, Greg's wife, who runs the office and takes the calls, has always been very nice.
I've been buying holsters from Kramer (and Sparks) since 1993/1994.

Yeah she is super nice, and I plan to order more through them because they seem to be great people who are just overburdened. My brother wants a sheepskin holster like the one I ordered for his revolver and I might surprise him with one.

[Onomea]

I ordered a Kramer belt scabbard for my 4" Colt Three Fifty-Seven in March. They explained at the time that they did not have a mold for a "Pre-Python," but would use a Python mold, and that the fit would be good.

The holster arrived in September and was very loose. I called Kramer — as noted above, very nice lady on the other end —and arranged for a return. I received a new holster a week or so later. The new holster, while still not the famous Kramer tight, was tight enough for my purposes — I'm 71 and avoid sprinting, wrestling matches, and rolling around on the ground — so I kept it.

A few weeks ago in the classifieds here I bought a Kramer belt scabbard for a 4" Model 10. Received it a week later. Excellent condition. A good deal cheaper than new. I have four 4" K-frames, target sighted and fixed, and it is a good, tight fit for all of them.

As everyone notes, Kramers are excellent quality, very well made and very durable. If you can find one for sale used, it can be a great deal. (And a whole lot quicker delivery!)

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Maybe you should check out Wright Leather Works. Very nice holsters, wait time today 4-6 weeks. My last holster was received about a week early.

[Data]

Originally Posted by Malysh

I ordered a Kramer IWB #3 on April 28th. It is still not done.
I've been using Kramer holsters (and Sparks) since 1993-1994 so I'm not going to call and complain to them, but I'm disappointed at the current extreme wait times.

To be fair to the customers, Greg should change the advertised wait times from 14-16 weeks to a more realistic estimate.

Oh, well

The quote time is 14-16 weeks as it currently states on their website. I would guess that it's now about a 6 month waiting time give or take a month. I never mail ordered my Kramer Holsters. I was fortunate enough to have come across them at Gun Shows years ago from time to time. On average, I Paid around 80.00 ea. which seemed a lot at time, but now it's just a drop in the bucket.

[Baxter6551]

My last Kramer pocket holster for model 36 came out of a used bin for $7
I am a Kramer fan. Great all day comfortable carry holsters.

[Malysh]

I've been using a Sparks VM 2 for
my P365 since I bought the gun.
Although the VM 2 is an outstanding
IWB to me it's too much holster for a tiny gun like a P365. Where this holster really
excels is with a large or
medium, heavy or "heavyish" size gun. The offset belt loops distribute the weight of
the gun more comfortably than loops mounted to the holster
body, and, the offset loops are less prominent for concealment printing.

I've been wearing the Kramer IWB #3 with the tiny SIG all day and I can
say that for this gun, this holster is the one I will stick with.

[Malysh]

I have bought more new Kramers and Sparks than I bought used, but I always jump on used Kramers and Sparks when I see one for sale. I got some great deals on lightly used ones.

[ramprat]

Originally Posted by ramprat

I just ordered a 1920 "Cross Draw" holster for my S&W Model 19 snub from El Paso Saddlery. They advise to expect 14-16 weeks for completion and delivery. I've purchased from them twice before and their time estimation is pretty spot on. I ordered this holster as a birthday present to myself. My birthday is in early March.
Gary

Well color me surprised! Received my holster from El Paso Saddlery on 11/22/23. Eleven days after I ordered it!. Talk about quick service. Now I'm going to have to peruse the catalog for a holster for the new Charles Daly 1911 clone I purchased this past September.
Gary

[Data]

Originally Posted by Baxter6551

My last Kramer pocket holster for model 36 came out of a used bin for $7
I am a Kramer fan. Great all day comfortable carry holsters.

I am quite envious of your $7 Kramer pocket holster. That is a great find. You have one sharp eye! ;-) Thanks for posting as well as the nice pics.

[Data]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

I've tried a number of pocket holsters. I carried in a Kramer for decades, but switched to a Milt Sparks a few years ago. It doesn't fit well in all pockets, so the Kramer still gets used.

Most of these were purchased at gun shows over the years for pennies on the dollar. You might watch the auction sites. Nice used ones occasionally show up for about half MSRP.

Nice pic! It never hurts to have an assortment of pocket holsters for sure. Thanks for posting and heads up concerning the auction sites.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Years ago, I ordered a number of holsters from O'''Rourke Leather - Holsters, Revolvers . The first was a pancake for my 325PD, which was a 2.75"-barrel gun with a glow-in-the-sun red front sight. Slightly oddball specs at the time, perhaps still. He made a holster for that, and it worked great! He did not charge very much for it, and it was first-rate quality. I don't remember the delivery time, but it was reasonable.

I ordered a few more, and the pricing and quality continued. I have not ordered from him in a while, because none of his holsters has worn out. I have checked his site occasionally, and I see that he is no longer giving his holsters away. You can judge for yourself whether his prices are reasonable, but I doubt that you will have a problem with the quality of his products.

Lobo is likely another good source, and I haven't heard anything to indicate that Galco has gone down hill.

[326MOD10]

If you have a few that work great for you now at least you are set while you wait.

But since variety is the spice of life take a look at R.Grizzle Leather.

While I have never had a pocket holster from them I know that Ryan makes a quality holster (I have Georgia Snap Holsters for my carry guns) and am certain the quality will roll over to that area as well.

He is a small shop and will quote you a time that in my experience usually ends up being a little quicker.

Good luck on your quest.

[Data]

Originally Posted by 326MOD10

If you have a few that work great for you now at least you are set while you wait.

But since variety is the spice of life take a look at R.Grizzle Leather.

While I have never had a pocket holster from them I know that Ryan makes a quality holster (I have Georgia Snap Holsters for my carry guns) and am certain the quality will roll over to that area as well.

He is a small shop and will quote you a time that in my experience usually ends up being a little quicker.

Good luck on your quest.

@326MOD10
Thank you for your input. Appreciate it very much. I should have noted earlier in my post that I have made several purchases recently in addition to what I have, although I haven't mentioned it until now. I will certainly add your suggestion to my personal list of holster makers for any possible future purchase. I will certainly check out Ryan's website.

All the best,
Data

[Well Armed]

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Check out Don Hume; currently 25% off sale and I got a 721 holster in <2 weeks .

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Ordered a 726 for Sig 229/245 on Saturday..... just got a email that it shipped

It depends on which holster you buy. They also list guns in their drop-down list that they will not make holsters for. They'll issue a refund.

More recently, I too ordered two more holsters from them on Wednesday evening. I was messaged today that there would be a several day wait for one holster and a 8 week wait on the other (S&W L-frame) holster.

[Well Armed]

I've used Mitch Rosen, Nelson Holsters, Highnoon holsters, and a few other custom holster makers. Now I pretty much stick to Don Hume and 1791 Gunleather holsters. They do the same thing as more expensive holster IMHO for less. I don't typically waste my time with more expensive custom holsters unless I see them for sale used on gun forums or ebay.

Like I said, there are a few off the rack holsters that are just as good IMHO. I think if these same companies didn't sell off the rack and only made to order like a Kramer or Milt Sparks, then many gun owners would hold them in higher regard. I believe that there is a subconscious bias against holster companies who sell holsters in bulk no matter how well made and functional their holsters are.

[AlHunt]

Man, am I glad I took up leather work a couple of years back.

[BabaBlueJay]

My experience is limited compared to many in this thread, however, I have found that these holster makers are worth the wait. While my first few Galco holsters were more than adequate, the fit and boning were less precise than my Lobo. This makes sense, as Galco and other bigger makers are looking to make holsters that fit a variety of similar handguns to maximize their potential market. In both cases, I found the Galco that was marketed for my 4" 686 were also listed as possible for several other revolvers of similar size. In both cases, I needed to use the plastic bag method just to get my 686 to fit properly, and even then it never felt like the Galco holsters were truly 686 holsters, but rather medium framed holsters that my 686 happened to fit into.

That to me has been the biggest difference with the Lobo, the enhanced pancake fit perfectly day 1 (tight, but not tight to the point of having to force the gun into the holster) and the shape of the holster perfectly aligns with every curve of the gun in a way that is truly beautiful. The boning is exact to the millimeter level around the barrel and cylinder as well.

In short, the difference is in the finer details such as fit, finish, and boning. If those factors are important to you, as they are to me, then the wait time is worth it.

[rednichols]

I let this thread go as long as I could without posting my perspective.

Yes these are all first quality products. No contest. But the delays bragged about on websites are merely negatives set out as positives ('our only weakness is that we just can't keep up with our popularity'). But the delays are because these companies won't staff up to meet demand, either because no one can be found who will do the grind in a metal building in ID or because new craftsmen would cut into the partners' profits.

That is, the true basis of 'excellent customer service' is PROMPT DELIVERY. Don't you forget it even if they have :-). They could fix it if they wanted to, they just don't want to.

And I'll add to this: a civilian carrying is indulging in at least a hobby, and at best paranoia. It would take a real pro -- a trained gunfighter such as a Jelly Bryce of old -- to genuinely 'feel' the difference between a well-designed Galco (cowhide) and a well-designed Kramer (horsehide). Because the difference is engineering that has sophisticated greatly since the 1970s but virtually everything made today is a carbon copy of 1970s designs (I was there). So name-brands are 'lodge pins' as G&A magazine once called such holsters/belts,knives/pistols/gunsmiths: I know my brands so I 'belong'. Instead, learn what MAKES a great holster great, what makes a great belt, and apply that knowledge to your purchases of ANY brand.

[Shoebox1.1]

I’m Kramer man all the way.. the 14-16 weeks is not accurate lately ( I’m ok with it). The last Thomas perfectionist took about 20 weeks. When you open that box it’s worth the wait! My Trr8 holster “should” be here by Xmas!

[Chuck Edwards]

One place I haven't seen mentioned is Privateer Leather. I've got three of his holsters - IWB and OWB for my 2" Detective Special 3rd Issue and an OWB for my 3" M10-7. The quality is excellent and his wait times (currently 13-14 weeks) are accurate.

His ordering process is different. You order via email, he replies with questions to make sure you're both on the same page, and you have the option of paying all of the price or just half up front with the remainder due when the holster is done.

Highly recommended!

[brianfede]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

I've tried a number of pocket holsters. I carried in a Kramer for decades, but switched to a Milt Sparks a few years ago. It doesn't fit well in all pockets, so the Kramer still gets used.

Most of these were purchased at gun shows over the years for pennies on the dollar. You might watch the auction sites. Nice used ones occasionally show up for about half MSRP.

Have you tried the Del Fatti PH? If so, can you comment on it compares to the MS or Kramer? Thanks.

[Dino44]

It is interesting to me, to hear folks praising Kramer holsters. I lived in western Washinton state, for 33 years. My residence was about 26 miles from Kramer's, and I would pass by their neighborhood, daily. For twelve years I went to Washington Arms Collectors gun shows. Kramer always had a couple of tables there. I never paid too much attention to them, for two reasons. One, was my focus was always on guns. Two, their tables were always piled high with holsters in no particular order. They appeared to be used, and like they were just dumped by garbage can onto the tables. I guess I should have checked them out. My bad.

[Shoebox1.1]

Originally Posted by Dino44

It is interesting to me, to hear folks praising Kramer holsters. I lived in western Washinton state, for 33 years. My residence was about 26 miles from Kramer's, and I would pass by their neighborhood, daily. For twelve years I went to Washington Arms Collectors gun shows. Kramer always had a couple of tables there. I never paid too much attention to them, for two reasons. One, was my focus was always on guns. Two, their tables were always piled high with holsters in no particular order. They appeared to be used, and like they were just dumped by garbage can onto the tables. I guess I should have checked them out. My bad.

No garbage I can assure you that! It’s a big difference for me going from a 3 inch king cobra belt scabbard horsehide to a 4 in K frame 1791 scabbard cow leather. Much thicker and heavier ( holster alone I mean ). I almost Forget the Kramer is there. The 1791 after 5-6 hours is getting ready to come off ( not that’s it’s a bad piece at all) the horsehide is like a kydex… for the discerning gentleman

[Dino44]

Shoebox1.1, I'm not knocking Kramer holsters at all. I am just relaying my experience of why I never paid attention to their holsters. The sight of perhaps a couple hundred holsters piled on a table was a turn off for me. I guess I probably should have, there may have been a good deal there.

[Data]

Originally Posted by Dino44

It is interesting to me, to hear folks praising Kramer holsters. I lived in western Washinton state, for 33 years. My residence was about 26 miles from Kramer's, and I would pass by their neighborhood, daily. For twelve years I went to Washington Arms Collectors gun shows. Kramer always had a couple of tables there. I never paid too much attention to them, for two reasons. One, was my focus was always on guns. Two, their tables were always piled high with holsters in no particular order. They appeared to be used, and like they were just dumped by garbage can onto the tables. I guess I should have checked them out. My bad.

"They appeared to be used, and like they were just dumped by garbage can onto the tables..."

You make a good point. It's a big turn off to me when gun show vendors heap their goods onto tables like it was garbage... and then expect the buyer to spend an hour or so sifting through it. It makes me wonder why they are in business to begin with. It's not worth it really, but then again it never hurts to ask. However, product organization matters in the long run for better business. I have learned over the years going to gun shows, that if a table looks messy ... then I will haggle for better price. That goes with merch, not having price tags on them as well.

[Data]

Originally Posted by Shoebox1.1

No garbage I can assure you that! It’s a big difference for me going from a 3 inch king cobra belt scabbard horsehide to a 4 in K frame 1791 scabbard cow leather. Much thicker and heavier ( holster alone I mean ). I almost Forget the Kramer is there. The 1791 after 5-6 hours is getting ready to come off ( not that’s it’s a bad piece at all) the horsehide is like a kydex… for the discerning gentleman

I think you are correct when it comes to Kramer products. Apparently, they are quite popular with the big shots from what I am reading. That is a good testament to Kramer's quality and innovation, etc. ... and makes for good endorsement as well.

[s&wchad]

Originally Posted by brianfede

Have you tried the Del Fatti PH? If so, can you comment on it compares to the MS or Kramer? Thanks.

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

[brianfede]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

I have his PH holster..... haven't found anything close to being as nice.

[Data]

@ Brianfede

Looks to be a really nice holster. Do you carry this holster via appendix region? As for my personal preference, I like pocket carry only when it comes to the J Frame. I do carry appendix, but that space is reserved for the Glock 17 and a spare mag.

[Data]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

Good post. I am grateful that these top notch makers are still in business... and didn't fizzle out of fashion. I feel very lucky to have my two Kramer pocket holsters.

[Shoebox1.1]

So I ordered my Trr8 belt scabbard from Kramer aug1 2023. Has been 26 weeks if my math is right. I just called and she said I’m being made right now and should ship next week. So 10 weeks past the “14-16” week estimate

[BillBro]

Try Brigade Leather or DelFatti and their 2 or 3 year wait times, not to mention their prices.
Yes, absolutely, the best leather work seen anywhere but jeez, come on.

[biku324]

Quality takes time. All but one of my holsters are El Paso Saddlery, and I had to wait from a few weeks to a couple of months for each. They make'em when you buy'em unless they are for really common models.

[rednichols]

Originally Posted by biku324

Quality takes time. All but one of my holsters are El Paso Saddlery, and I had to wait from a few weeks to a couple of months for each. They make'em when you buy'em unless they are for really common models.

I hate to be pedantic but it's not 'quality' that's taking time, it's that you're buying from tiny makers who refuse to gear up production. All gunleather makers were tiny before Bianchi in '66, whose biggest contribution to gunleather was not innovation in holsters but rather innovation in distribution: he created the dealer model that put gunleather in stores so that every man could buy one on the spot.

That's all gone now, because dealers don't pay their bills timely. Have a look at the D&B reports for the likes of Galco as I have; how does one pay suppliers on time when dealers don't pay on time? Last time I visited dealers was 2015 and I encountered a shocking state of affairs: no inventory with the salesmen all clustered around the handguns from which I almost had to forcefully drag them.

Gunleather sales today are all online, even from so-called distributors. Which then means the buyer never holds the holster in his hand until well after the sale, and isn't truly informed about if it is the best performing choice he could have made, or not.

One can't blame the likes of Sparks except for making the same-old, same-old for a half century, for staying small. What these companies can't supply simply falls off into the wilderness. But it does create competitors by making demand but letting other companies fill it.

What's on their side? Buyers want the brand, for bragging rights, it's unlikely they know 'first quality' from 'second quality' because it's performance that makes the difference, not leather finish or hand tooling. Even gun writers don't focus on performance, they look to see if the stitching is straight!

[Old cop]

I’ve been using a Blue Force Gear pocket holster for a little over a year & found it to the the thinnest, lightest on the market. It doesn’t print carrying a J Frame even in the thinnest dress slacks.