Bill Jordan holsters?
 

Hey guys!

Well I've suffered long enough with my... economical... BLACKHAWK! brand Wal-Mart special nylon holster that I bought for my Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel. Concerning the revolver, I adore it but will be trading it in towards the same gun but with a 4" bbl when I can find one again. The 6" tube is too muzzle heavy and bulky for my needs. But back to the holster-

The BLACKHAWK! holster is not that great, and I've been looking into some quality leather for when I get my GP100 with a 4" barrel. But you see, I'm not so well versed in the world of holsters... :(

What I'm looking for specifically is more of a "duty" or "police" style holster for my gun. The holster will be used for carrying around the home and my yard as well as maybe while hunting and for taking into the creek for target shooting fun and hiking. Basically concealability is of 0 concern, and I've been examining my options for a good duty style holster for my GP100 and I've come across an interesting design called the "Border Patrol" holster that was originally developed by Bill Jordan.

The leather firm Tex Shoemaker makes a version of this holster that looks very nice and it gets good reviews. I really like the design of the holster and it looks very cool and useful. But, before I fork over the $100+ for the thing I have some questions that hopefully you guys can answer:

1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of the Border Patrol style holster?
2. Is Tex Shoemaker a good company to deal with? Is it worth the $?
3. Are there any other "duty" style holsters that I should look at? Or is the Border Patrol holster a winner?

I hope to learn something from this thread,

Thanks! :D

Jay,
I've made a few holsters and looked at and bought many more. You don't know how good a holster will be until you get it and use it, so you're wise to ask for opinions.
The duty holsters I've handled were made of very heavy/thick leather and looked like they'd last several lifetimes. Not very flexible and awkward for sitting in a car seat. They ride pretty low and look like they belong on someone in a LEO uniform. Not something I'd like to wear on my hip, but if that's what you want, I'm sure that the Jordan rig would do just fine and I admire Bill Jordan. He could draw, fire and hit a target in 27/100 of a second. His book "No Second Place Winner" is worth reading.
I'd lean more toward a higher riding holster (I have one that I made for my 4" S&W Model 19) or a cross draw holster. The high ride and cross draw holsters would cause less interference when you sit down. I looked quickly at the Ruger site and saw a couple for the GP100 that would be less costly than the Jordan rig. Take a look here:
Double-Action Revolvers-ShopRuger
Or, like I've done in the past, type the gun make/model and the word holster on Google and spend a few hours looking.
Just suggestions.
Good luck with your quest for input.
George

I knew Bill slightly and visited with him several times. I have two copies of his book, autographed. He was indeed VERY fast and accurate with a gun.

But he was about six feet, six or seven inches tall. I'm 5' 10".

He could wear that Jordan rig and sit okay in a patrol car. I tried one with a M-19 and one with a .45 auto.
I find the higher-riding holsters like the Tom Threepersons style better, especially if you'll be sitting a lot.

If you can find a good used Bianchi Model 5 BHL or the Safariland Model 29, long discontinued, at a good price, grab one. Or get the same basic thing new from El Paso Saddlery or maybe Lobo Leather, who's a board member. I've only seen photos of Lobo's work, but own several by El Paso. Lobo will probably have a quicker order time. EPS often takes months. But their work is excellent. That's why they're always behind on orders. But call them and see what they may have on hand from a cancelled order. They also sometimes have holsters to take to gun shows and you might like one.

Their basketweave stamping is exceptional. (I don't like floral carving.) I do prefer their lined holsters, as with Bianchi and what Safariland once made. I carried a S&W M-66 in those holsters for two decades and it shows hardly any wear.

If you can find a copy for a reasonable price, buy John Bianchi's, "Blue Steel and Gun Leather." It's an excellent holster book.

I have a four-inch GP-100 and it's a very fine general purpose handgun. I think you'll like it. But I'd get a higher riding holster than a Jordan style.

BTW, my Jordan is from Don Hume. He made enormous numbers of them for cops. Quality is at least as good or better than Tex Shoemaker, in my opinion. But it is basically a uniform duty holster. It looks a little out of place, otherwise. BTW, if Hume is still in business, they also offer Threepersons holsters. My favorite variant has a thumb break strap. Hume's basketweave is also top notch. His prices used to be a relative bargain, considering.

I'd sure do some homework before buying. From what I read on both Ruger boards, new GP-100's are hard to find, so you may have a while to wait for one. I agree that the six-inch GP is too long for general use. Why did you buy one, unless just for range use and hunting? :confused:

What he said.

You will also need a good wide outer river belt to go with the holster. Police duty rigs such as this one or other traditional outdoorsman rigs are designed to be worn around the hips, which is quite comfortable for all-day carry. They are also convenient to remove if one is running into a convenience store or something.
I have a river belt and a few threeperson holsters for some favorite 44 specials and 357 magnums I sometimes take with me when hunting, fishing, canoeing, or camping. I got mine from El Paso Saddlery.

Hi:
The "Jordan Style Border Patrol" holster was the choice of Patrol Officers (i.e. Real Cops). Also Mine !
Take the time to search "Lobo Gunleather" web site for a holster that meets your needs.

Jay, before you go spending a hundred, may I suggest checking the used market, such as eBay? If you've never used a drop-loop holster (the basic name for the Jordan-style) maybe you want to get a used one for $15-25 to see if you even like it. And as was said, you'll definitely need a 2.25" belt so it sits properly on your waist. Personally, I never liked them - for one thing, they tend to cause the butt of a revolver to dig into car seats. In fact, back when all the cops carried revolvers, most of our cars had tears in the seat back upholstery where the gun butts were constantly grinding the fabric.

JayFramer:

I may be bucking the tide here, but my personal opinion is that the Jordan Style Holster was a hit in its day but has now been superseded by much better designs that have covered trigger guards, no straps to catch on anything around your property, and have much better retention qualities.

I too have some of these nostalgic holsters but other than to use them strictly at the Range for a half hour or so they are just wall hangars. My Dad left me a few of the Jordan Style holsters and they DO LOOK COOL, but I can never bring myself to wear them for anything serious as I am afraid of having to pick up a gun from the ground as the snaps and straps are a bit worn and not all that secure anymore.

If you just want a "police" style holster, then by all means, the Jordan Holster is good, although sitting with one is a challenge unless you are 6'6" like Bill was.

Other popular police holsters were the swivel type, the "break-front" type, the Threepersons type and the "clamshell."

Don Hume was, if I recall, the last of the major makers to build the Jordan type to Bill's exact specs, and Herrett's (the stock maker) made them before Hume. Even though out of the "official" catalog, Hume was still making a small run every so often as of a few years ago. You might call them, but I have my doubts about its current availability. Herretts stopped all holster making decades ago.

There are few holster makers left making ANY of those formerly popular designs.

Safety Speed made the clamshell last, and they are out of business as of many years ago.

Some companies still make variations of the break front, but I don't think anyone makes the "original" version as was sold by Berns-Martin or Bianchi.

A few companies make swivel holsters, but I don't think you really want one. Tex Shoemaker makes the one used on the TV Series about zombies, and it is or was on their web page.

The Threepersons is the only one of the group still in production by several makers. The one made by El Paso Saddlery, the successor, for lack of a better term, to S. D. Myres, makes a very good Tom Threepersons holster.

Good luck.

eBay has been running some vintage Hume Jordan rigs, NOS (search 'Don Hume Jordan' and you'll get a page of good clean used rigs). They look waaaay better made than the Shoemaker you shared, who, while they have a good rep historically, appears to be past their prime.

But... you said you want a 4" barrel because 6" is too cumbersome (good choice), but putting a 4" in a Jordan rig puts the gun back down where a 6" would be, and once again, it's cumbersome. As cool as it could look -- and feel, when your hand falls right on the grip -- a high ride style is much more practical, as everyone has said. You will be impressed with how a high ride looks, and so will tresspassers.

Bill Jordan (US Border Patrol, retired) collaborated with Don Hume Leather Goods on the design of a holster that was marketed using Jordan's name and endorsement.

Basic design included a steel-reinforced shank in a drop-loop belt attachment point, approx. 15 degrees butt-forward cant, closed bottom (sewn-in toe plug), and holster body reminiscent of the older Threepersons' style equipped with a rotating snap-strap over the hammer for retention.

The steel shank held the holstered revolver tilted slightly out away from the body for ease of access. Ride height placed the rear face of the cylinder about in line with the bottom of the belt. The rotating retention strap could easily be rotated forward and snapped in place so that the revolver could be drawn without any delay to release the snap-strap. Holster body and belt loop were constructed of very heavy leather (about 11 oz. or so, probably saddle skirting leather).

This holster style works very well when walking or mounted (horseback); less well for getting in or out of an automobile or driving, especially with the longer barreled revolvers (Jordan prefered and recommended a 4" barrel).

Usually advertised with the Jordan-designed "River Belt", a heavy-duty two-layer belt with billeted buckle and tongue ("Ranger-style"), 2.25" width with 1.5" billets. I used one of these for years as a uniform duty belt, worn over the trouser belt with snap-strap belt "keepers" to hold the belt in position and help keep the holster and other equipment firmly in place. That belt remains usable today, although at least 35 years old now.

Most (if not all) of the original Jordan-style holsters will be found with belt loops for the 2.25" duty belts (Sam Browne, River belt, etc), so will perform best when worn on that size belt to avoid excessive shifting and movement.

For the uses you have described this would be a good choice. There are many thousands of these holsters out there, most of them lying unused for many years now. These pre-date your Ruger GP-100 by a couple of decades or more, so for a reasonably good fit I would suggest a holster originally made for the Colt Python or Trooper if possible, or for the S&W N-frame otherwise. Either would provide a reasonably good fit for your purposes.

Used one to carry a 4" M28 for almost my entire uniformed career. Upsides: At 6' even I never had any comfort problems, or access from a sitting position. It was fast, intuitive for both draw and reholster and left room for the hem of a duty jacket to fit between me and the gun butt.

Downsides: It will not work properly with anything narrower than a 2.25 to 2.5 inch duty belt. The duty belt will not fit in your pants belt loops. If worn over your pants belt the duty belt will work its way down and over your butt to fall on the ground unless you a) use belt keepers or b) are Jennifer Lopez. As several have noted this style has been out of favor since about the time the Ruger GP100 replaced the old Security Six, so there may not be many on the used market.

When not in uniform I used a Roy Baker pancake for the M28. While not quite as fast as the Jordan, it worked much better with a normal pants belt. Some variation of the pancake is made by multiple makers for every handgun on the market except (maybe) the North American Arms mini-revolver and that new flat derringer.

May I recommend for your intended use, a Threeperson style holster? There are always several used ones available on e-Bay, or, if you want to go "Top Shelf": Lobo Gun Leather - The Classic Tom Threepersons style holster

I agree with the people who recommend the Threepersons holster from El Paso Saddlery. You can get them with either a retention strap or a hammer loop and they make them for just about every gun on the planet. I have four on order with them right now, with all but one of them being crossdraws. Just got their lined River Belt with border stamping this week, and it's a real beauty.

I once heard a Former Border Patrol paraplegic tell a story.
He said he was in the back of a border patrol building somewhere around here near the border. He was in a non-public official use part of the building.
Several high-ranking uniformed border patrolman came into the room. With them was a tall slim guy in a suit. The tall guy looked over at his holster, came over without saying anything and grabbed it with both hands. The began to bend it, re-angle it and reposition it. The tall guy finally mumbled something like your holster your holster is not angled correctly. Then he walked off.
The storyteller said he was too shocked and surprised to say anything Or do anything.
Some of the other guys laughed and said that was Bill Jordan!

Nice story!

Thanks everyone for the replies, so much knowledge here! After some looking at El Paso saddelry I found a holster that I really like: #2 "Thumbreak" - 2" to 5 1/2" Barrels

It is there #2 Thumbreak. I was thinking of getting it in black with basketweave stamping and with a 1.5" belt loop. I am going to get a belt from the Beltman that is 1.5" wide in order to fit my Wrangler jean loops. The only thing I can't figure out is weather or not to get a nuetral or forward cant! Does anyone know which one I should get??

Thanks again for all these wonderful responses, I am proud to be a member here!

You have made an outstanding choice! This is the model that I said virtually duplicates the old Safariland Model 29. In fact, I have one of these for my M-60-4, for which normal commercial holsters are few and far between, if any.

It rides high enough that I carried even six inch barrels (Ruger Security-Six and S&W M-19) comfortably in the Safariland version.

Order the forward cant, the usual version. It'll let the gun come more readily to hand and help keep the holster toe a bit above the car seat. This is the way the holster was designed. I've never seen one with the straight cant, although I suppose it might be ordered by some men wanting it for crossdraw use. You should normally avoid a crossdraw rig, for the reasons stated in Jordan's book.
You will not be too concerned with prisoner transport, where many felt that a crossdraw holster was offering your gun for a grab by the prisoner. On the other hand, in the car, it was away from the passenger. This is largely moot, as prisoners are transported in the back seat, behind locked doors.
But when they're out of the car, yeah, they might try for your gun.

Do you watch, "Criminal Minds"? Look at the way Dr. Reid wears his M-65 S&W. That was never an authorized carry. The FBI wears holsters well back on the right hip. Reid is a ditz, gun-wise. But the Bureau would not let him wear it that way in real life, nor would he probably be able to get an exemption still allowing him to wear a revolver these days, when the Glocks are standard. Some older agents like our member SIG-P-220 still carry grandfathered-in SIG pistols, but most are now stuck with carrying Glocks, although I think they can still buy their own. Anyway, naïve Dr. Reid is offering his gun for a grab, and he usually wears it openly. I think the deal is, he can't qualify with an auto pistol so they let him use the M-65, once a very popular gun in the Bureau. Fat chance, in real life! An agent HAS to be able to use the issued pistol.

Oh: I think the forward cant also assists in concealibility, if you have a CCW license. Remember, wear the gun well back on the right hip. That also minimizes felt weight, I think. And wear the belt tight. You don't want sag. If the holster is being worn on your pants belt at times when you want the gun concealed, that goes without saying.

Jordan did not wear his uniform holster in plain clothes, of course. He had holsters about like the one from Heiser issued by the FBI in revolver days. It was basically a Tom Threepersons design.

Now, I'll tell you lads a dirty little secret about Bill Jordan. He always recommended revolvers, for reliability reasons. Said that the best tuned autos might jam. Even in WW II in the Pacific campaigns as a Marine officer, he wore a M-1917 S&W .45. But when I last saw him it was in the late G.W. Stone's custom knife shop in Richardson, TX. He was retired and his gun that day was a S&W M-59 9mm auto! He insisted that he'd found it to be reliable. We talked for maybe an hour, and he mentioned opening up 28 African game animals with his Stone Model A knife, much like a Randall Model 1, although G.W. used 440C steel with his own sophisticated heat treatment. He was impressed with the edge retention, although he didn't also skin most of those animals, as they had an African camp staff with skinners for that.

Bill was justly a legend in his own time, although Charles Askins once sneered to me that the only man Jordan ever killed was a fellow Border Patrolman, in a tragedy involving a gun that Bill forgot that he'd reloaded after some fast draw practice. The bullet went through a wall and killed an agent on the other side. It was truly a tragedy, although Askins was inconsiderate in the way that he mentioned it. But from what Jordan himself said about cleaning out Japanese on Pacific islands, I think his body count may have been higher. His skill levels were so high that it'd be virtual suicide to draw against him. And he was a big, tall man who'd intimidate most thugs, anyway.

Between the two, Bill Jordan seemed a much nicer, more easygoing man than was Askins, in my limited acquaintance with both. I'm quite sure that both would be very deadly in a gunfight. Jordan designed that holster to enable him to achieve maximum speed draws while remaining within uniform guidelines prescribed by the USBP, from which organization he retired as Asst. Chief Patrol Inspector, I believe.

But I have no doubt that you'll be better served by the El Paso holster that you selected. I'm sure they do black holsters perfectly. And these probably have a lower profile than the beautiful golden tan they otherwise offer. I do have a wonderful Don Hume thumb-break Threepersons holster that is a deep chocolate brown, but that color is rare today. Cops, of course, normally must wear black in most agencies.

Ordering the belt with the holster should ensure that the belt fits the holster loop. You may otherwise encounter some belts that are just a mite too wide for your holster, especially if both are not the same brand. All holster and belt makers should use identical rulers, but they seem not to.

Wow, Tex, great info, thanks! I was able to speak with Mr. Jordan for a minute here in Denver, back in the 80's when the NRA held the annual convention here.
Couldn't say it better... I agree that a forward cant is better for a strong-side high rise holster. A neutral cant would force the butt backward, which in turn would push back any cover garment as well as make it more difficult to draw from a seated position.

Most of what everybody else said...Jordan stye holsters were made for a specific need, and based on the trend of the say...Bill Jordan was TALL. Real tall....However that holster and in the 60's a lot of police carried their revolvers in them, but as others mentioned they were carried on a Sam Brown 2 1/4, or a Jordan styled 2 1/4 river Belt.....I think you would be better served with a high rice, good retention, covered trigger guard holster. Almost all the good holster makers make a holster for outdoor concealed or not concealed wear. Talk to Lou at Lobo I'm sure he can fix you up with a good field type holster. I find his work not only tough but well thought out and reasonable....

Here is how I carry my 4 inch S&W Model 686-6, which is very close size-wise to the GP100.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/19/ju6avy5a.jpg
It is a Gould & Goodrich high-rise, thumb break, covered trigger guard, "cruiser" holster. It keeps the revolver close to my body and doesn't interfere with sitting in my truck. As you can see, it is on a duty belt since it's my work rig.

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.

Gould & Goodrich holsters, I haven't seen one in years.....I left uniform duty in the 70's and only see what the uniform division is using now....My son a Captain has a rig that accommodates pistol mounted lights...etc, etc, etc. Man they carry a lot of STUFF now...Including a taser pistol looking thing a ma gig......Vest and phone and radio. a collapsible baton ....I don't know how they could run if they had to. He is a Capt. so I guess running isn't in hiss job description any more..

Everyone that works with me carries Glock 22s with all that stuff (except Tasers). I loaned my 26 inch baton to one of our patrol guys who came in with a cheap ***. I'm old so I don't intend to wrestle or roll around on the ground with young folks.

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.

FYI - The Bill Jordan holster was not universally loved in the BP...some of the guys I worked with called it the "Bill Jordan Give-Away" holster, as in give-away your firearm to any who wanted to grab it from you. They preferred a different, more secure, style.

I've got no dog in this fight, just relating what I was told by several USBP guys I knew and worked with.

I agree....Great holster for drawing the revolver, but not the most secure especially after it got a little worn and loosened up. In Jordans case he was so tall who could grab it and if they could probably wouldn't want it after he shoved it up their...Well you know...