I have a cop shop close by so I see lots of plainclothes cops. I see some with real leather, but a lot of Serpas and Fobus (seriously).


I've also seen locals using the duty version of the Serpa. That's really not much cheaper than most other duty holsters, but I still would not use one (even in a security role).


I'm not even going to get into what some security officers wear, but some of the armed jobs in DFW are paying $10hr so they do what they can.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

A lot of officers use Serpas because of price even though they can get Safariland ALS holsters for around the same price.

I have seen several Serpas break at the screw holes, so I will not trust them.

Most cops aren't gunslingers, so they go cheap on the tools of the trade when they can.

There are SO many good kydex holsters out there that actually stand up to serious use and cost less than $70 that I don't understand how on earth Fobus and Serpa stay in business.

My only possible guess is that both those brands are common on gun store shelves and the people who buy them do not know any better.

Over the years I've known hundreds of cops, every one different. A lot of cops really don't care very much about gear, shooting, or guns in general. Many carry what they are issued, or about the minimum they are required to have for duty. Quite a few can't tell you the full nomenclature of their duty sidearm (make, specific model, etc), although just about all of them will know the caliber (they see it on the cartridge boxes during range qualification days). A few don't even bother to carry when off-duty; some agencies require it while some do not. Those that do carry off-duty frequently purchase whatever holster and other gear from a police supply shop, or order from a catalog.

A few are serious gun and gear nuts, and they will have every conceivable piece of equipment they can afford and/or carry. Some will be able to quote chapter and verse on every handgun ever made, every holster on the market.

Some are very good cops. Some are not so good. Quite a few are just putting in their time until retirement.

No common denominators that I know about.

I have witnessed countless cops buying a gun at the LAPD gun shop and then taking whatever holster the sales guy recommends to them...and it's usually just off the shelf stuff.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

This. The trash o matic makers have stellar marketing. Big glitsy adds and distributor deals that get them in to every gun shop. Remember Glaser and Extreme Shock ammo? Add that the fact their ads are in every gun rag. Low information consumers think that these types of products are viable choices. Most don't know what they don't know. The deal is sealed when these poor choices lead to positive outcomes. The choice is then validated forever.

I remember being a rookie in 1968 and getting my first off-duty gun, a Colt Cobra (still have it). The holster I got was what the older guys had and did not cost much as I recall. Good thing b/c my annual salary was $6800/yr. and I had a brand new wife (still have her too).

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

What Lobo said.

For pretty much everybody around here who isn't actually wearing a BatBelt, the working uniform is 5.11 Polo and Tac Pants, whatever belt is handy, a Glock 23/27 in a Fobus or Serpa paddle holster, and a folder of some sort. Most don't carry cuff, baton, spare mag nor OC. Just the bare minimum that they can carry (i.e. gun and badge).

Fobus is the best Kydex holster out there. Directional draw, better retention than the Serpa, and durable to a fault. I used the same one for 15 years with no issues.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I saw a security guard at my local DMV the other day that was wearing a glock in what looked like a plastic buckle retention air soft holster on a normal dress belt. She was serverly overweight and combined with her holster it made it look like the gun was about to pop off her belt. Shirt half tucked, out of breath and sweaty, she was ready for anything. I feel like she'd be more of a threat in a situation than any help. Anyways, most pc officers around me are using serpas. I prefer leather but I've never had a problem with any of my serpas. Wasted my money on a fobus once, never again. Kydex holsters have there place but for edc nothing beats leather.

What's the only thing cheaper than a Cop?



Two Cops.

Even worse is- - - I've seen them with cheap crummy guns as well for off duty carry.

Started in 1962 at $2600.00 a year. Required to furnish every thing but the uniform and badge. Used a used Colt Trooper .38spl and Leather from "Saco" Police Equipment Company.

I view any piece of weaponry or tactical equipment designed by the Israeli's with the utmost of seriousness. Serious gear for a serious people.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I look at individual products on their own merits. Based on what I see, there are much better choices made right here in the US.

I have never seen a credible tier 1 trainer wearing a Fobus, but I see many of them wearing this: Raven Concealment modular holster

YMMV

There's a lid for every pot . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have never seen a credible instructor using Raven. But I have seen it a lot with You Tube Commandos.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

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Support your Police, & NRA

What's wrong with Serpa?

I have a Serpa Blackhawk level 2 for my M&P 9 FS and I absolutely love it. With the catch released, it draws out like butter but with it locked, you couldn't shake it out of there with a paint shaker.

Chris Costa and Travis Healy come to mind immediately. But then you probably think they are just a pair of youtube commandos

Really? Just do some basic internet searches. It's not that hard.

Want to play weapon retention with your Serpa? I bet I can rip the holster (with the gun in it) right off your belt PDQ, for starters.

Let's not go into the ergonomic fail of a release where you have to press inwards with your trigger finger as you draw.......

If I needed a real retention holster, I'd just as soon get a Safariland with the ALS system.

I have seen the catch assemblies on multiple Serpa holsters figuratively "explode" on the range, with plastic and metal parts everywhere, thus creating a Kydex pouch from a level II holster.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

That's why I carry a Fobus paddleback . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Hmm...........mine is a royal PITA to get off of my belt (and it's a paddle style) which is why I usually only use it when going to the range. Any other time, I'm CC'ing my Shield.

I've never had a problem with that part. When I draw, my trigger finger lines up at the top of the frame "above" the trigger guard opening.

Went soft threads in 1981...
Most bothered with NO holsters.
Mexican carry was the norm.
I was the pup @29 most of the old heads were 40yoa+
I LOVE vintage leather but seldom use one...old habits.

In plainclothes, I use the Blackhawk with the detachable paddle (which I believe I threw in the garbage as soon as I opened the package before I even put it on the 1st time.) Looped onto your belt ,this is a very stabile holster & works just fine.....

So who do you consider credible? The Magpul duo Aint the only ones rocking ravens

This!

My department actually issues Serpa holsters to our detectives. They're decent holsters, but not my preference at all. A few guys use Safariland ALS holsters and I know one that uses a Galco Jackass shoulder rig. Cops (and CCW'ers) that really seek out and appreciate quality gun leather are few a far between. Of the gun toters I know, LE or not, the vast majority use what they can walk into the local gun store and buy.

Beyond that, many cops are no more interested in guns and holsters that most firemen are in hoses and axes. They're just tools of the trade.

I had to buy my own when I started as a Deputy Sheriff. My duty rig was all Bianchi except for the PR 24 holder. My off duty holsters were also Bianchi a pancake and a pistol pocket. All of these items were leather. When I went to Nuclear Security we were issued Jay P leather and after a few years the company switched to Uncle Mike s nylon gear. Most of the Police Departments around here have nylon or some other plastic gear.

Hose and axes are not individual items. They are issued to the apparatus. Firefighters also do not carry them off duty (the axe would be pretty awesome though).

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I miss my 4546 the most.

Seen some pics of NYPD officers with snap holsters back in the day with Model 10's, emergency services, not radio cars. The great folks who do rescuing auto accident victims and people stuck in elevators and the like. God bless them, we need them all, I pity those who look down on them. They put their lives on the line every day for us and deserve the highest respect. If you're in a tangled mass of metal, you'll pray and thank God for them.

Fair enough, it was a bad analogy!

Now that I'm a training officer, I try my best to instill the importance of off-duty carry and quality gear (even if it's on your own dime) to my boots.

Amen to all of the above. When I started in LE back around 1977, we were required to use leather holsters, a rule that stayed in place until there were few choices left in affordable leather duty gear. We had issued holsters and so on for many years, but that too went away as prices went up. Our issue was the Denver crossdraw, also used by the CO State Patrol. When that went out of fashion, they bought us those S&W Security-Plus holsters. Back then, the vast majority of my coworkers had decent holsters and other gear of their own, usually Bianchi or Safariland.
Seems to me that things started going downhill when companies like Safariland began to go away from real leather and switched to plastics. Then all the cheap imitations started coming around, and eventually the uniform bureau (who were bean counters, not aficionados) began approving all these gimmicky plastic toys that a lot of you guys seem to swear by. (Jeez, when did I start sounding like my 1950's-badge # FTOs???)

Every...Single ....Day.....

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Plastic has no soul

My agency just put out a policy that now forbids the use of the Serpa. No reason was given, but in talking to folks it seems to have been some issue with debris (from ground-fighting, for example) getting wedged under the finger latch and not allowing one to draw the weapon.

My first duty rig was a Bianchi "Hurricane" rig in black basket weave for my 4" Model 27. I think I may still have it packed away in the garage. These days I carry a Glock 21 in a Tim Thurner rig (TT Gunleather).

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No good deed goes unpunished.

This worked OK off-duty for 24 years. Kinda basic, though...

If used properly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a Serpa Blackhawk in normal, everyday conditions. It seems like its the popular thing for people claim they have seen them fail or jam or fall apart in high numbers, but never the proof. It's always, what someone else said they saw, or what someone told them about. All equipment will experience some failures, but it is a very small percentage of sales overall. I might not trust it in highly dirty conditions, because of the nature of the release, but for normal conditions it works fine. That's just common sense. I think the stories about the serpa failures have taken on a life of their own. A big problem is that some people mis-use the serpas. They don't use proper form, and end up shooting themselves or having a ND. That's not the holster's fault, that is the fault of the idiot mis-using it.

Believing everything you read on the Internet is never good. Remember the Kid that was killed by eating pop-rocks and soda...yea, that didn't happen either. "Stories" of equipment failures shouldn't be a deciding factor, facts should be. Of course, at the end of the day, it's everyone's own decision to decide what works for them and what doesn't and why.

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M&P Shield 9MM

Lobogunleather got it right regarding cops and gear.

I’d like to try and clear up some of what I read based on my experiences over the years….

As for some specific brands, Fobus is a decent entry level kydex holster if you’re on a budget (i.e.$20-30). It’s relatively easy to find at most LGS. IMO, they’re on par with Uncle Mikes FWIW. Downsides are you get what you pay for. They don’t last very long, and are prone to cracking (especially at the rivets). With that said, I haven’t owned one in a looong time and from the looks of it, at least their design has come a long way.

SERPA’s problem…or alleged problem is that there was a rash of UD/ND/AD incidents in 2012-13. After a bunch of investigations, interviews, and testing it was determined that having to manipulate the release with the trigger finger contributed to also pressing the trigger unintentionally during the draw stroke. The result, as I know it, started with FLETC banning the holster, followed by most Fed LEO agencies, and on to local, city, state departments as well. There are many handgun ‘schools’ that won’t allow you to take their course with a SERPA.

The issue(s) regarding debris sticking the release and weapons retention issues are other known drawbacks of the holster, although many argue those realities. Up until the 'ban' I carried in a SERPA. IMHO those incidents were operator error and a training issue. I also understood the weaknesses. But for me on a daily basis being an instructor I had to take my gun off/on a lot so it was easy. There's always a trade-off.


At my work we do a lot of weapons retention drills. By that I’m talking full impact suit/striking training where we start on our feet and most of the times end up in a ground fighting/defense situation. In those classes, I’ve fought every person in our office (200+) as the BG at one time or another. In that time I’ve seen pretty much every holster style fail at some point.

From my experience, it’s not so much the material (leather vs. kydex), it’s the choice in attachment to your belt. As a general rule, snaps, clips, and paddle holsters are the easiest to defeat. The most secure are the belt slides but of course they’re the most PIA to put on/off if you have to do that sort of thing during your day. Most of our guys carry IWB vs. OWB. Even with the few who choose OWB, none are the uniform duty rig style like the Safariland 6000 series so I can’t speak to that.

Kydex and leather both have pros/cons. I own both. For me it depends on the gun. I have a Wilson that won’t ever see straight kydex because I don’t care for the wear patterns. I do carry it in a Garrett Industries IWB holster though. For OWB, I bought an Andrews Leather shark skin custom. For my duty guns, they get carried in anything from, Milt Sparks, TT Gunleather, Comptac, or Crossbreed depending on my needs. The CB I care for the least. Then there’s the box of Bianchi, Galco, DeSantis, etc…that just sit in a box….not that there’s anything wrong with those, I just found other holsters that fit me better.

Kydex requires very little care and is very tough. It’s also relatively thin compared to leather, so it potentially hides better IWB depending on who makes it. It has the potential to not be as comfortable IWB if it happens to poke your body shape. Leather gives and conforms overtime to your body shape.
But with kydex you can sand/shape on your own where you really can’t with leather (unless you really know what you’re doing). With that said, some of my kydex is more comfortable than my leather….for ME. It took a few boxes of holsters and almost 20 yrs to find the right one(s), HAHA. If you sweat or operate in a marine environment a lot, leather requires more care (cowhide). Kydex could care less.

I know this goes beyond the OPs question, but I wanted to add some clarification to some of what I read. Bottom line is you pretty much get what you pay for, but material is a personal choice based on your needs and preference. Just realize the strength/weakness of each. “Better/best” goes only as far as you.

I probably have better gear stashed in tuff boxes in my basement than most of the LEO's in my area wear on duty.....

I dropped $70 on a Gould&Goodrich break front holster for my Ruger P89 just to have a good holster for it. I have probably 20 leather Jay Pee and Safariland duty belts stashed away I bought in "lots"....but I've seen local police in the bagel shop wearing cheap Uncle Mikes gear.....then again I can't really judge them, I'm a gun enthusiast and avid shooter, so I spend serious money on "toys" to go with my guns because I enjoy it....If I were to get into golf I'd probably buy a cheap set at Wal Mart and die hard golfers would look down their noses at me......

I'm the kinda guy who practices using speed loaders at home when I get bored, or will just watch a movie and fondle a revolver for an hour just to pass some time and relax. Lots of guys are passionate about fishing, fitness, cars, etc. I know plenty of guys who will spend 3 hours wiping their car down with a cloth diaper to keep any spec of dust off of it and will spend countless hours tuning cars up....but they can't imagine why I'd spend hours working on a gun

for a lot of LEO's the duty gun is just a belt ornament that they have to shoot and clean once a year. Most of the younger ones would rather hang out in the bars and/or a gym bulking up than a gun range.

It wasn't long ago that I was an armed guard and we used to have pistol matches against local PD's at our range because they were "gun guys"'and liked to shoot.

I wonder how many small PD's could put together a pistol team?

Urban legend or not, we can no longer use them.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I've seen the retention device on SERPA holsters self destruct on multiple occasions (more than 15, less than 30). If I've seen it, I suspect others have seen.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Worst holster I've ever seen worn by a patrol deputy was when I was working as a jailer in 1997 in Bastrop County, TX and a deputy had an Uncle Mike's Super Belt slide concealment holster as his duty holster for a Ruger P89. We had to buy our own gear and making $19k a year didn't help.

In olden times, I saw some officers carrying their issue Combat Masterpieces in duty holsters so old that the seams were coming apart and they flopped around on the duty belt. A security guard at a local glass plant was carrying an H&R .22 Magnum in a dyed black Hunter holster.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Anything more and he could actually break the glass if he shot and missed...bosses wouldn't like that.

He never left the guardhouse at the plant entrance. I was more afraid that he'd shoot me. He kept pulling it out to wipe it down with an oily rag. I got assigned to another shift. (This was before I joined the Army in 1975.)

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I've seen Serpas, Uncle Mikes, the ones with the built in mag holder in the front, you name it

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

I've enjoyed reading the opinions here, especially LE and others with daily experience carrying. I also have a boxful of different brands and find with each one they get better and better. I wish I could have drawn from others experience instead of drawing from my wallet all these years.
I recently purchased a Lobo for my Colt DS and think I'm done with holsters for it now. Next on order is the same for a Glock.
Then, when my account recovers, one more for the 1911.
I've mentioned this before, but I'm with holsters like my wife is with shoes! Which is why I NEVER give her grief for buying a pair.

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“Look life in its iron face”

I'll admit in my early security days (96-99) I was using the Uncle Mike's dual retention hi-ride duty holster for my 66-4, G17 & 4506 (not the same holster . I was not doing anything close to high speed, so they were more than sufficient.


From 2001-2010 I worked at the headquarters for a natural gas company and was issued A Glock 22 with the "Bianchi 7120 Defender® Mid-Ride Duty Holster w/ Jacket Slot Belt Loop". It was also fine for the job we were doing (metal reinforced shank, not a $20 special).


Now I'm in TX where just about every security officer supplies his own stuff (which can be good or scary). I'm not on an armed job at this time, but I've built up a complete rig with a 6360 ready to go.

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I miss my 4546 the most.