interesting Milt Sparks variant owned by Keith

Malpasowildlifer · #1 12-31-2014, 04:36 PM

I've never seen one like this before, with that strap on the front leading edge?

Anyone seen one like this?

James D. Julia, Inc. -

James D. Julia, Inc. -

Eaglestroker · #2 12-31-2014, 04:47 PM

Mike Barranti makes a version of this holster that I found when experimenting with my own variant. It works effectively - if your a facebook type Mike has a video of how it works on his page.

Edit: Link to video page - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Barra...3583?sk=videos

Malpasowildlifer · #3 12-31-2014, 05:12 PM

very interesting! thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglestroker

Mike Barranti makes a version of this holster that I found when experimenting with my own variant. It works effectively - if your a facebook type Mike has a video of how it works on his page.

Edit: Link to video page - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Barra...3583?sk=videos

ISCS Yoda · #4 12-31-2014, 05:18 PM

Look at this one - maybe it's supposed to work the same way? Well, it's not quite the same, though......hmmmm....

James D. Julia, Inc. -

44splfan · #5 12-31-2014, 05:22 PM

That's very interesting. If it was good enough for Elmer, I gotta check it out. Thanks for sharing.

Watchdog · #6 12-31-2014, 06:12 PM

I don't do Facebook, so what's the purpose of the strap?

On another note, I wonder why the guns from the Keith Collection are being auctioned off? Anyone know?

Eaglestroker · #7 12-31-2014, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

I don't do Facebook, so what's the purpose of the strap?

On another note, I wonder why the guns from the Keith Collection are being auctioned off? Anyone know?

The purpose of the strap is to quickly clear a hammer thong away from the handgun as to not interfere upon drawing it. Pretty slick. My local customer I mocked it up for said it reminded him of a screen door so I just started a personal rig with a similar set up.

From another forum I follow:

Quote:

I was not aware that the Cabelas in Boise City had closed the Elmer Keith Museum display. Always wanted to see the No.5 in person. Guess I missed my chance. Looks like they are all going on the auction block.

James D. Julia’s March 15-17, 2015 firearms auction is shaping up to be an Event for the Ages and will be the focus of those passionate about firearms and firearms history. A highly anticipated grouping of firearms and accessories from the Iconic Elmer Keith Estate Collection will be a featured component of the sale. Many of these fabulous items have been on display at Elmer Keith Museum housed inside Cabela’s Boise, ID retail showroom. All items in the collection have remained in the possession of the Keith family since Elmer’s passing in 1984.

The Iconic Elmer Keith Estate Collection of Specialty Sporting Arms. Elmer Keith was probably the most famous and prolific gun writer, scholar and big game hunter of the 20th Century.

To most firearms aficionados, Elmer Keith needs no introduction. Keith’s trademarks were his cigars, his ten-gallon Stetson, his outspoken opinions and practical expertise. Elmer became arguably the most famous and prolific gun writer in America over the span of his 60 year career. Even today his articles and books are widely reprinted with the content being as applicable and fresh as the day they were written. During the 1920’s and 1930’s, Elmer was a rancher and big game guide in Oregon and Idaho with his first articles starting to appear during this time. His first published work was in the American Rifleman in 1924. During World War II, he served as a small arms inspector at the Ogden, UT Arsenal and subsequently devoted his full efforts towards writing in the beginning in the ‘50’s. During his career, he served on the staff of The Outdoorsman, The American Rifleman, Western Sportsman, Guns, and Guns and Ammo. Elmer also wrote 10 books, beginning with Sixgun Cartridges and Loads in 1936 and ending with his autobiography, Hell, I was there! in 1979.

Keith espoused form and function in his works. An avid big game hunter stemming from his roots as a Rocky Mountain guide, Elmer practiced what he preached and was equally proficient with a big-bore revolver, bolt auction, single shot or double rifle. His collection being offered at Julia’s includes treasures from Keith’s battery of African stopping rifles, highlighted by the legendary “Corbett Tiger Rifle”; the famous Jeffery .450/400, once the principal weapon of famed Tiger hunter Edward James “Jim” Corbett. Also a selection of English Best Quality stopping rifles by Westley Richards and Holland & Holland, Classic Farquarsons and magazine rifles by Hoffman Arms and C-H, along with a host of specialized hunting and target handguns by Smith& Wesson, Ruger, and Colt…

The prize being Elmer’s much publicized tricked out and engraved Colt “SAA No.5” in .44 Spl which Keith called The Last Word in fine Sixguns.

The importance of the Elmer Keith Estate Collection cannot be overstated.

Malpasowildlifer · #8 12-31-2014, 06:20 PM

delete, see post #7

Doc Barranti · #9 12-31-2014, 09:33 PM

The holster in the photo was mislabeled. It's not a Sparks holster, but actually an E. H. Bohlin rig. Pretty neat holster, and there are photos floating around of Elmer, probably in the 50s, wearing it. Sometime after that he went to the Sparks holster, which they did not have on display at the Elmer Keith Museum.

-db- · #10 12-31-2014, 11:09 PM

I believe Keith references this particular spring-loaded retention rig in one of his books. As mb111263 relates, this probably predates Milt Sparks, although Sparks may have re-created such a feature for Keith considering they were in the same neighborhood later.

Doc Barranti · #11 12-31-2014, 11:21 PM

Here is a photo that I believe was taken by John Taffin of Elmer's 44s and gunleather. The bottom holster is the early Sparks rig that he carried his plain jane 44 mag in until his stroke.

Joe Kent · #12 01-01-2015, 09:53 AM

Truly neat guns and gear from one of the all time Great Gun Writers and for that matter a very neat man. I along with many others had the opportunity to meet and spend time with him in person. I kind of hate to see his collection broken up and basically disappear from ever being seen by the general public but the family certainly has the right and perhaps the need. All my very best for 2015, Joe.

SG-688 · #13 01-01-2015, 06:32 PM

The photo I'm seeing in the first post looks like a Gaylord or Seventrees holster.

Texas Star · #14 01-01-2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG-688

The photo I'm seeing in the first post looks like a Gaylord or Seventrees holster.

My thoughts also. Probably a Gaylord.

Texas Star · #15 01-01-2015, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb111263

Here is a photo that I believe was taken by John Taffin of Elmer's 44s and gunleather. The bottom holster is the early Sparks rig that he carried his plain jane 44 mag in until his stroke.

Are the other holsters by Lawrence (Model 120?) and the middle one by Bohlin? The one to the left of the Bohlin may be a Myres. Note the shape of the leather about a half inch below the trigger guard.

Doc Barranti · #16 01-01-2015, 07:47 PM

From left to right:
Myres
Bohlin with the same spring loaded hammer thong as the Bohlin in the original post
Lawrence

rednichols · #17 07-09-2015, 09:58 PM

It's fun to guess, isn't it. The one at upper left is clearly a Myers; note the low-quality Mexican carving that's typical of Myers, in addition to the other construction details such as full support behind the trigger guard and the trademark shape of the welted seam. Of course Bohlin at centre, the cited auction pictures take the guesswork out of that one. At right, the guesses are Lawrence; indeed Keith had a relationship with Lawrence. On the other hand, the Mexican carving, though as good as Lawrence's, has an atypical border and safety strap for that company. Though one could imagine them going to extra effort for Elmer.

One sees the sources in the Sparks holster at bottom, that legend has it he and Milt collaborated on. The hammer guard of the Gaylord (indeed the OPs pic is of a Gaylord, horsehide and all), the adjustable welt of the Bucheimer, and the front sight welt that is arguably of Safariland but in fact more likely the plain forward welt of the Anderson competition holster, of which Sparks made a copy. And seeing the pics of Keith's holsters from that 'other' auction, I discovered a 'lot' that includes several Bucheimer 's Hank Sloan holsters. Sloan patented this holster and Sparks freely admitted that he copied this invention to make first Elmer's holster, and then to put it into production although the patent was still in force (Sloan died in '75).

The auction site's pictures are magnifico. When we enter the various auction numbers into the site's Library link search engine, we get more pictures including pics of the Berns-Martin set and Elmer wearing it as a VERY young man. Elmer wrote the very first article about B-M, of which I have a copy, in a 1932 American Rifleman; at that time B-M was in WA state and few examples from that era have survived into the present day.

Doc Barranti · #18 07-09-2015, 10:34 PM

Red, as I mentioned above, I too thought the top left holster was a Myres for all the reasons you have mentioned. I have recently handled that actual holster, the new owner having purchased it and several other holsters in the auction of Elmer's guns and gear. It is actually a Lawrence model 34!

rednichols · #19 07-10-2015, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb111263

Red, as I mentioned above, I too thought the top left holster was a Myres for all the reasons you have mentioned. I have recently handled that actual holster, the new owner having purchased it and several other holsters in the auction of Elmer's guns and gear. It is actually a Lawrence model 34!

Thanks for that! After writing my post it did occur to me that I could be wrong, because Lawrence sometimes used the full guard backing and the welt shape. But the carving steered me wrong, because normally Lawrence's is magnificent and Myers is always ordinary. Thanks for setting me straight :-)

Perhaps you could get the new owner to let you take and post pics of the backs of all his holsters? You'd be doing holster history a great service.

crazyphil · #20 10-17-2018, 03:36 AM

This thread should live again just because...

Pig Hunter · #21 10-17-2018, 10:59 AM

OK , I couldn't get the video to work, and I'm slow. How does the device on the front of the first holster pictured work?

rednichols · #22 10-17-2018, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malpasowildlifer

I've never seen one like this before, with that strap on the front leading edge?

Anyone seen one like this?

James D. Julia, Inc. -

James D. Julia, Inc. -

The question has been asked, about how the thong on this Gaylord holster works. Keith said in his Hell I Was There that his big 44s kept falling out of the Gaylord when he bent over. Here he has taken the strap off a Bohlin -- you'll see it on his other Bohlins and it was part of Ed's fast draw holster patent -- and attached it to his Gaylord to solve the problem.

It's really just a common hammer thong, with one end attached to the holster fold and the other with a slit in it to hook onto the hammer spur. But in between the two ends is what's called an 'extension spring' that indeed is quite like a screen door spring; it holds the thong tight, and when thumbed off the hammer, springs away and dangles below the pistol.

This is not the only time the Gaylord has been misidentified as a Sparks, because Milt's copy was so close (the copy was of that particular Gaylord, which Elmer otherwise liked, with the Sloan welt inserted). It was/is called the 200AW with the letters being for 'adjustable welt'. Sad thing is that Hank Sloan, who patented the adjustable welt, was still living at the time of Milt's copy, but neither Milt nor Elmer thought about getting permission and paying Hank a royalty. The first copy was in '72, the patent ran until May of '83; Sloan died in Nov of '75.

Contrary to legend, Milt made no 'improvements' to the Sloan holster except to his own bottom line. The hammer guard was not only already on the Gaylord, it was already on the Sloan, too! Styling, belt loop configuration, carry angle, etc., are all from the Gaylord. Who himself was out of the biz with severe health problems and losing his customers to Paris Theodore, his erstwhile protégé.

crazyphil · #23 10-18-2018, 01:34 AM

Here's a few illustrations from my little collection, left to right:

Chick Gaylord's Combat Speed Scabbard.

Spark's 200AW

Bucheimer's Hank Sloan

Lawrence Model 34

Berns-Martin Speed holster from mid 1930s

Joe Kent · #24 10-18-2018, 12:56 PM

An all around good thread.

Malpasowildlifer · #25 10-24-2018, 10:39 PM

wonderful collection! Thanks for sharing

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

Here's a few illustrations from my little collection, left to right:

Chick Gaylord's Combat Speed Scabbard.

Spark's 200AW

Bucheimer's Hank Sloan

Lawrence Model 34

Berns-Martin Speed holster from mid 1930s

rednichols · #26 10-25-2018, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

Here's a few illustrations from my little collection, left to right:

Chick Gaylord's Combat Speed Scabbard.

Spark's 200AW

Bucheimer's Hank Sloan

I just got the significance of all that: Sparks' original 200AW was a clone of the Gaylord scabbard, right down to the odd rear sight/hammer guard; with the Sloan welt incorporated into the seam:

julia keith (2).jpg Elmer's Gaylord scabbard

sloan witty (1).jpg A Hank Sloan original

x sparks smalls (9).jpg The early Sparks

I mean, the myths that were spread after Milt died. 'With Sloan's permission?' Not so. 'Added a hammer guard at Keith's request?" Not so.

The Sparks that crazyphil has pictured is still the 200AW but the body of the holster was, at some point, changed to be more like the Sloan (the 'waisted' look first used by Heiser, whose designer was later Bucheimer's designer) than the Gaylord. But the odd shaping of the hammer guard, and the straightened welt line, give away the 'copy with a copy inside'.

ddixie884 · #27 10-29-2018, 11:05 PM

Kewl............