I have read that Jim carried a Model 10 with 4" bull barrel as his primary on his right hip, a Model 10 with 4" pencil barrel on his left hip crossdraw, and a snub nosed Cobra in his pocket. Does anyone know what kind of holsters? Photos or descriptions?
It has also been written that Jelly Bryce designed a FBI concealment holster. Does anyone have a photo or description?

In one of his books Cirillo said he used " two regular holsters" for his 4 inch M&Ps, he also said he carried a ppk in a "crotch holster". Did not indicate if he used a holster for the Colt he carried in his pocket.

Bryce probably used an S. D. Myres Threepersons style during his OKCPD and early FBI days. Several of his contemporaries were confirmed to have used those.
There is a Heiser holster, I believe it is their style 415, that is referred to as the FBI holster but never heard who designed it. It is a Threepeson style also. The only holster I know of attributed to an SA is the one designed by Hank Sloan.
Turnerriver or Larry Wack can probably add to or correct this.

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LEX ET ORDO

Thank you lawanorder. I wonder what "two regular holsters" were?
I read somewhere that Bryce did use Myres holster but the concealment holster he designed for the FBI covered the trigger guard.

............Larry Wack's outstanding web site on the history of the FBI. There are many images of the SAs of the 1930s, some showing gun leather.

Home - Dusty Roads Of An FBI Era

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LEX ET ORDO

I was in basic Deputy U.S.Marshal training at FLETC late 84 early 85. Jim Cirrilo had retired from the NYPD and was instructing firearms at FLETC. He taught several of my classes. It was a real experience.

A year later I attended firearms instructor school at FLETC. Jim was there and helped runus through the paces. A year or so later I was there on detail assisting permanent instructors in teaching firearms to basic students from various agencies. That is when I had pleasure of teaching alongside Jim and getting pointers from him. He was always willing to stay behind and give advice well after hours.

Always had a good story or two about being on the stakeout squad too.

HogBlue

I was at FLETC during early 1984 and Jim Cirillo was our basic firearms marksmanship instructor for a CI course. He taught us many of the secrets of hitting a FLETC man size target at 50 yards with a 2.5 inch Model 19 snub, many which had the rear sight cranked so far up that you could pass a couple quarters under the rear sight assembly!

Jim used to talk to many of us on break, and he let us shoot his Dan Wesson 44 Mag and Devel custom model 59. He was instrumental in getting several agencies to adopt the US Marshal's modified/chopped 870 for protective details at least and he could unsnap a slung chopped 870 that was under his 70's leisure suit jacket in the blink of an eye and crank off 5 #4 shots into 5 targets at 21 feet. His ability shut up many of the "suits"I worked for who did not think that shotgun would be accurate.

We paid him back by buying him dinner at Two Brothers Pizzeria down the road in Brunswick, and he often let us fish in the pond behind the 50 yard berm at the old pistol range on Saturdays.

He was a great guy, who could get a little boastful at times, but he could always back it up with action. He also had a big heart! Sorry that he and his wife are both gone.

Good Times!

Great thread. Tell us more about these two legends, please.

OK rock castle here is a little more. My favorite Jim Cirillo story from, if I remember right, Paul Kirchner's excellent Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad. A reporter was interviewing the Stakeout Squad Commander. The Commander says the men in my unit always issue the standard challenge. Police! Drop your weapons. And they only open fire after the gunman turns on them with gun in hand. Jim Cirillo, who was sitting there, interjected it's like some of them don't hear us. The Commander asks Why do you think that is Jim - stress of the moment?
Nah, Cirillo replied, I think it's drowned out by the sound of our gunfire. rock, if you like this one I will tell you my favorite Jelly Bryce story too.

I have wondered why Jim did not use two M10 HBs or two M10 standard barrels instead of one of each ?

jimmyj I have read that he refitted the primary model 10 with a .357 cylinder and a 4" heavy Douglas barrel for more stopping power. He probably left the crossdraw standard model 10 as is for backup. Someone else can probably add to and/or correct this.

In the era of Jim, were "K" Frame .357 cylinders available ? Also were the M10 frames of that era strong enough for .357 pressure ?

jimmyj The story is in Jim's book Guns, Bullets & Gunfights. Apparantly at the time the issue round was the 158-Gr. Round Nose Lead at 747 FPS. Jim wanted more power. I don't know if he shot .357 in it, but the .357 cylinder would take more pressure than the .38 cylinder. I believe the frames on the model 19 and model 10 were (are) the same. Someone who has the book might be able to clarify what Jim said. I gave mine away.

Jim Cirillo NYPD SOU 1968-1973 (I finally looked his years up) so .357 Magnum M19, M27, and M28 were available. Possible the M10 was the only service revolver allowed on NYPD ?

I refitted a Model 10 .38 frame with a Model 19 .357 cylinder and a 4-inch Douglas barrel. I then fitted a Bo-Mar rib over the barrel. This hybrid allowed me to shoot accurately and fast with close to .357 power. I used ahome-brewed special load-a 125-grain cup-point half-jacketed wadcutter traveling between 1,250 and 1,300 fps. I went to a flat-edge cup point due to the fact that in many confrontations, I was only offered head shots-the gunmen who did not give up when challenged generally ducked for cover, leaving only their heads or a portion of their heads for a target.

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Possum—The other white meat!

I wanna hear the Jelly story!

jframejoey: I better not. I don't need another infraction.
Try Googling Jelly Bryce quotes.

Tell the story.

Jimmy,

I believe that Smith built some Model 10s (10-6) in .357 Magnum
for the New York State Police in or around 1972.

Before they came out with the model 13.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I wonder....if they had the sidearms of today ....would they still carry revolvers or would they start edc automatics!!
Jim

Sayoc01 If my memory is correct Cirillo went for a Glock in later years.

Phil, yes he was a big fan of the G30. I also remember seeing pics of him with 3rd gen stainless smith autos.

I worked with Jimmy Cirillo in the Stake Out Unit.

On occasion I worked a stake out with him but normally I had a different partner.

He was a humorous guy that was a lot of fun to be around.

He was a avid Police Combat Match shooter.He was an excellent shot with his Model 10 issue and K-38 match guns.

He was the go to guy that ordered all the reloading supplies for the NYPD shooting teams.I don't remember how many Star Machines he had in his loading room but it was a lot more than my 2.

Bill Allard and Eddie Kavanagh were other great shots in the unit.

Eddie liked to shoot his 1955 .45 at Camp Perry while the rest of us cherished our accurrized Colt Government models.

So many wonderful memories as I think back about the great men and shooter I've had the pleasure to know,work with and shoot on a team with.

I knew Jim Cirillo as he used to visit the DeSantis Holster Company where I worked following retirement. Jim was buddies with the president of DeSantis. My guess is that Gene DeSantis would have given him anything he wanted, free of charge, just for the privilege of having a genuine police combat veteran using his products.

Regarding Jim's K frames, my guess is that one of them was his duty weapon before he entered the stakeout squad. I mentioned in another thread that dealers back then offered retiring cops $20.00 for the 4" model 10s regardless of condition. There was no shortage of Model 10s and Jim may have received one from a retiring co-worker.

I don't remember when Jim joined the NYPD but it was before me.

My issued weapon in early 1966 was a heavy barrel Model 10 that cost me about $45 from the Police Equipment Bureau.

I loved shooting that gun.

I had a custom made fixed bar rear sight placed in a milled slot to raise the impact point for my eyes.

No duty weapon was allowed that had adjustable sights so no K-38

On Stake Outs we carried any backups we wanted but had to have our issued service weapon also.

The Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge was the other standard SOU weapon.

On some stake outs an M1 Carbine was the extra fire power

I was in the SOU from it's inception to 1 month before it's demise.

Hey StakeOut: Thank you. I have been trying for a long time to find out
what kind of holster Jim used on the Stakeout Unit. I have another thread
here in Gun Leather and Carry Gear simply called: Jim Cirillo Holster.
If you will I would appreciate it if you could read it and let me know what
you think or recall.

A funny story I remember about Jimmy involved his son Jim Jr.

The team shot a Police Combat Match one day I believe was in Jackson N.J.in the very early 70s.We each drove our own cars there and back home.
Jimmy took his then 4~6 year old son to the match in his beat up VW.

When he arrived home his wife Mildred asked where's Jimmy Jr.

Jim forgot him at the range and went home alone.

Luckily,another team member Frank May,brought the boy home after seeing him alone after the shoot.

I'll be 73 in two weeks so my memory may be a bit fuzzy on some things from the 60s and 70s but I'll look.If you can supply a link to the thread I'd greatly appreciate it.

I remember I used some custom holsters made by Seventrees that were in midtown Manhattan

BTW,I don't recall ever seeing Jim Cirillo with an automatic.

StakeOut I'm 81 and bet my memory is worse than yours. I'm not smart
enough to supply a link? But the Thread Jim Cirillo holster is on the same
1st page that this thread is on except it's about the 40th thread down.

Jim Cirillo's holster

I recently read a book entitled "Jim Cirrilo's Tales of The Stakeout Squad", written by Paul Kirchner, who had interviewed JC many times as well as many of his associates. The book is full of interesting stories, told in a New Yawk accent; with plenty of humor as well as gallows humor. Stories of crooks peeing their pants at the sound of a shotgun firing, etc. I could not put it down.
Spoiler: Late in life, JC became a Glock man!

Thanks to all of you for supplying these wonderful stories & "insider" accounts!

That is just so hard to believe.

Got more Jimmy Cirillo stories somewhere in my frontal lobe.

I just picked up a 15-6 that's in shooter condition.While it's not my beloved original Model 10 it's just as much fun to shoot.

Attached Images

IMG_20160311_115644.jpg (89.2 KB, 106 views)

federali Thanks for the tip about Gene DeSantis being friends with Jim
Cirillo. I sent an email to Gene and he responded. Don't know yet if
he will be able to confirm the holster or not. Obviously Jim probably had
a lot of holsters.

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In Omnia Paratus

Whether the dime and chewing gum was fact or book writer's fiction I don't know but having a Cobra in a pocket,a Chief in an ankle holster,a holstered Model 10 on the left side and a K-38 on the right side is very true.

Jimmy always took his garbage out at night with a short barrel in his pocket and once he had to use it.That habit may have saved him from serious harm.

Stake Out

I met Bill Allard about 4 or 5 years ago at the NYC FBI range at Ft. Dix. He was carrying his Combat Commander that was built by the armorer from the Ohio National Guard. He could still out shoot just about everyone there.

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NEVER FORGET SEPT. 11th 2001

I wish I had Bill's email so I could renew a friendship.

I probably did more things outside of work with Bill than Jimmy Cirillo.We first met while working in traffic around Shea Stadium,the former home of the Mets.

Speaking of Jimmy again I remember the many times he'd call and get me out of bed way before the sun came up on rainy days to hunt pheasants with .410 on Staten Island near the garbage dump in Great Kills Park.On rainy days there were far fewer bird watchers and dog walkers.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Stake Out

Private message me. I have an e-mail and phone number for Bill. He was selling Stake Out challenge coins also when he was at Ft. Dix. He also had a consulting business.

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NEVER FORGET SEPT. 11th 2001

Are there any pictures of Mr. Cirillo's m10?

Stakeout, thanks for the info on Mr. Cirillo. I became a firearms instructor in '09 and quickly began reading any firearms/police combat books I could get my hands on. Luckily I stumbled onto Jim's books because I've read them numerous times now.

I'm now a State Trooper and collect patches as a hobby. You wouldn't happen to have any Stakeout Patches like your profile picture or the old SOU Trash can patch?

Again thanks for all the info.

I'm sorry I don't have any,not even for myself.

The only person I can think of that might have Stake Out Unit patches is Bill Allard.I don't presently have his contact info.
The patch in my avatar I believe is still in use by the NYPD Emergency Service Unit.

The Stake Out Unit was under the Special Operations Command and the Emergency Service Unit

About 23 years ago I took a job teaching at a university in Korea that was only planned to be 1~2 years;I stayed for a full 20.Before departing I sold all my guns,gave away a lot of gear and memorabilia.No guns allowed for foreigners in Korea.Very few Koreans are allowed also.Left with only one suitcase.

Today is my 73rd birthday.Where have all the years gone?

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

As the old saying goes: "Time goes fast when your having fun".

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In Omnia Paratus

I remember it as "Time Flies When You're Having Fun"

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

StakeOut
Happy birthday from Germany

P.44

I'll 2nd that Happy Birthday!

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In Omnia Paratus

Happy birthday!

Thanks guys for the warm words.

I must admit I've never read the Cirillo Books.I did read most of the Jordan book "No Second Place Winner" while in the SOU.

I did read the New York Magazine article and smiled at the passage about where I kept the bullet that hit my vest without revealing my name.

Since I've joined this forum in February a lot of lost memory of the years of working with Jimmy Cirillo and Bill Allard returned.Some of it plays like a movie in my mind as did the shootings the nights after they happened.Shaking loose of the mental replays at night while trying to sleep took a lot of time after each occurrence.

Things long lost are again fresh....the good and the bad.

I'd prefer to remember things as they really were without the writer added fluff(aka BS) but the fluff is what sells to paying customers that like to read that sort of stuff.

Stake Out work like a lot of police work is very boring for long stretches of time but gets really interesting very quickly at about 3AM when in front of your eyes there appears a person(s) with guns in hand and they're threatening bodily harm on a really scared for they're life civilian.

Except for a few super markets,banks and finance companies most stake outs were in mom and pop liquor stores,dry cleaners etc where the take was often less than 100 bucks.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Hope the good memories win...

P.44

Stakeout your description of the work on the SOU reminds me of when I
was a pilot. Hours and hours of boredom interrupted occasionally by a few
seconds of sheer horror.

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In Omnia Paratus

Crazy Phil, that's ALL law enforcement & FD!

StakeOut,
Happy Birthday my friend!