|
|
08-17-2016, 06:56 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,109
Likes: 27,904
Liked 33,825 Times in 5,284 Posts
|
|
How would a typical WWII defense plant guard have carried his new Victory Model?
I recently got this early pre-Victory .38 Special.
Our experts here say it probably shipped in the Spring of 1942, and given it's "sanitized" backstrap was most likely marked by a plant or defense company before finding its way to someone's home.
I'd like to outfit it with a period correct holster and duty set up. Does anyone have any contemporary photos that would show a typical arrangement for a WWII era plant guard? I suspect it would be a simple leather holster with a strap and maybe a belt slide with cartridge loops. Anyone know for sure?
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”
Last edited by sigp220.45; 09-10-2017 at 01:33 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-17-2016, 07:16 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 4,744
Likes: 3,552
Liked 12,654 Times in 3,371 Posts
|
|
Using Ford's B-24 assembly plant at Willow Run as an example, if the badge looked like this:
I suspect the rest of the uniform and equipment probably looked a lot like most 1940's police uniforms.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-17-2016, 07:27 PM
|
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,082
Likes: 12,877
Liked 7,548 Times in 2,081 Posts
|
|
My guess is that these guns were carried in black uniform holsters with the butt approximately even or a bit below the belt. The holsters would have had a primitive cross strap snap retainer. Some of these holsters also had swivels for added comfort when seated. A chest strap going to the left shoulder (for a right handed individual) was also common.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-18-2016, 01:08 AM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
I'd bet on a flap holster or something like the old Lawrence No. 24, but from a cheaper maker. Wouldn't be surprised if the flap holster was on a swivel.
Personally, I'd be looking for belt and shoulder holsters like Naval aviators carried the gun in. Not all Navy, Marine, and Coast Guard Victory Models had the top strap marked.
Ammo seems to have been std. speed .38 Special with 158 grain jacketed bullet at 850 FPS, hotter than the feeble M-41 round of the 1950's and later.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-18-2016, 04:58 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 2
Liked 1,595 Times in 888 Posts
|
|
See the recent thread about police holsters for 1940s to 1970s. The Industrial Police/ Security Guards would have had a substaintial overlap with public police gear of the same era. Maybe a little more range to the low end.
The bottom line from the other thread would apply here also - Pretty much anything contemporary to the era ( actual age or design) in black, medium to low ride, that would fit a 2.25in belt would be plausibly correct. ( Ok, probably not blatently cowboy rigs, but otherwise.)
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-18-2016, 05:00 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 2,831
Liked 1,535 Times in 540 Posts
|
|
Perhaps something like this, it dates to the late 40's/early 50's.
Last edited by zonker5; 05-16-2018 at 07:30 PM.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-22-2016, 10:33 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,111
Likes: 1,691
Liked 16,314 Times in 4,238 Posts
|
|
IIRC (?) a military style flap holster (plain black) or a cross draw holster (plain black). Belts were police type with a shoulder strap
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-22-2016, 11:45 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
Zoom in on the left part of the attached photo, look at the holster of the security guard under the wing. This is at Northrop Field, CA. It's 1946, and this holster most likely contains not a Victory, but a Colt Commando, shipped there on a DSC contract during the war like the Victorys were. I'm sure because I have one of Northrop's Commandos. But the flap holster style was pretty standardized at the time.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-24-2016, 09:07 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 1,586
Liked 4,084 Times in 595 Posts
|
|
I agree, just about any pre-war black police type holster would be appropriate.
Here's an Audley belt holster with the retention trigger tab:
Here's a photo I took of some Civil Defense items including a Civil Defense Air Raid Warden armband... the Victory model is marked "Civil Defense", the holster is a brown US Military Victory flap holster.
__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-25-2016, 08:31 AM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
Linda-
Good to seee you posting again. I'd missed your superb photos.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-03-2017, 09:09 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,865 Times in 440 Posts
|
|
Pretty good thread, so I thought I'd bring it back.
DSC Victory that shipped to the Pacific Telephone & Telegraph Company in San Francisco, CA.
The holster came with the gun. Notice how "formed" the holster is to the gun. The only mark on the holster is "MP 4" on the back.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-03-2017, 10:40 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Calif
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 1,235
Liked 6,037 Times in 2,150 Posts
|
|
The few period photos I remember mostly showed a strong-side flap holster slung kind of low.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 06:13 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,463
Likes: 800
Liked 3,052 Times in 1,009 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggfoot44
Pretty much anything contemporary to the era ( actual age or design) in black, medium to low ride, that would fit a 2.25in belt would be plausibly correct. ( Ok, probably not blatently cowboy rigs, but otherwise.)
|
A friend once showed me the firearms her grandfather used while guarding coal mines during WW2. They were a SAA in 44-40 with caliber matching 92 Winchester carbine. I found the story interesting because she also showed me a picture of him playing for the Ohio State University baseball team his senior year, 1918. The man was a mining engineer and should have been retired by WW2. I've wondered if he came out of retirement to guard mines he help put in. Given the wear but care these firearms showed I also wonder if these were carried during his mine exploration days in the 20's and 30's.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 07:24 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 10,146
Likes: 14,193
Liked 12,746 Times in 3,482 Posts
|
|
Victory carry
I'll bet many carried their Victory in an Enger Kress like this
__________________
John
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 08:16 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 10,867
Likes: 2,688
Liked 18,970 Times in 5,589 Posts
|
|
Here is a shot of my Uncle and brother taken in 1942.
My Uncle is the one in uniform.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 08:44 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: N GA
Posts: 4,466
Likes: 204
Liked 3,613 Times in 1,498 Posts
|
|
He (the uncle) is wearing a Sam Brown rig.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 11:36 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Several manufacturers made holsters for the Victory Model S&W.
Most of them that I have seen are either full flap or half-flap designs.
They were used in the military and by security guards in defense plants.
I have seen more brown ones than black, but both were used, depending
probably on their uniforms.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-10-2017, 05:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 957
Liked 1,555 Times in 680 Posts
|
|
I have seen a photograph of a Boeing Aircraft Security Guard that was wearing a full-flap holster. I imagine the odds of actually having to use the gun was pretty low at most defense plants.
|
09-10-2017, 07:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Occupied California
Posts: 2,790
Likes: 1,523
Liked 5,582 Times in 1,610 Posts
|
|
While not a Victory Model, this Colt Official Police was shipped to a defense contractor plant just a few weeks after Pearl Harbor. The Folsom Audley holster is typical of many police holsters from the 1930's & '40's. I assume that the "ST" designation for this model meant State Trooper. It is designed for a Sam Browne belt rig. It looks "period correct" enough for me.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|