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Old 11-04-2016, 04:46 AM
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Default Old Bianchi pistol pocket

8th hand, seen better days IWB.
With my CS9. 20161104_023836.jpg20161104_023825.jpg

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Old 11-04-2016, 02:55 PM
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Looks just fine to me.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:59 PM
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Great holster....... if I hadn't found Sparks Summer Specials would still be using them............your's is finally getting broken in.....

actually still have a couple for 69xx and 39xx...even a left handed one for the wife ...just in case!!
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Old 11-04-2016, 06:21 PM
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That's the first generation of the Model 3, which we developed at Bianchi to compete with the Seventrees and the Sparks. "Advanced IWBs" were quite new in the early '70s and legend has it that Cooper popularised the style. Plausible.

The first generation Model 3 has a fixed belt loop integrated into the band stitched around the mouth of the holster. Quite soon afterwards we added (and patented) an adjustable angle version, wherein the loop is a separate part that is attached, rotatably, to the band. Yours has had the muzzle cut off It was Mas Ayoob who got us to add the thumb snap, about which he still writes today.

The Model 3 preceded the Askins Avenger, which itself preceded the Sparks version by ten years (it is a myth that Bruce Nelson's was the original); 1977/8 vs 1988.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:28 PM
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That's the first generation of the Model 3, which we developed at Bianchi to compete with the Seventrees and the Sparks. "Advanced IWBs" were quite new in the early '70s and legend has it that Cooper popularised the style. Plausible.

The first generation Model 3 has a fixed belt loop integrated into the band stitched around the mouth of the holster. Quite soon afterwards we added (and patented) an adjustable angle version, wherein the loop is a separate part that is attached, rotatably, to the band. Yours has had the muzzle cut off It was Mas Ayoob who got us to add the thumb snap, about which he still writes today.

The Model 3 preceded the Askins Avenger, which itself preceded the Sparks version by ten years (it is a myth that Bruce Nelson's was the original); 1977/8 vs 1988.
Thanks for all the info. I think it's great to have a background on the items I've lucked upon!
Yes I trimmed the muzzle end to fit the 3.5 in CS9. It had been made for the full barreled smith 9s

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Old 11-04-2016, 09:29 PM
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...

The Model 3 preceded the Askins Avenger, which itself preceded the Sparks version by ten years (it is a myth that Bruce Nelson's was the original); 1977/8 vs 1988.
Gee, Red. Just off the top of my head, the thumb break version of the Nelson is pictured in the 1974 Cooper on Handguns, and the 55BN is in my 1977 Milt Sparks catalog. And then there's Nelson's article in Pistolero in 1980. Later than '77, but earlier than '88.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:11 PM
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Gee, Red. Just off the top of my head, the thumb break version of the Nelson is pictured in the 1974 Cooper on Handguns, and the 55BN is in my 1977 Milt Sparks catalog. And then there's Nelson's article in Pistolero in 1980. Later than '77, but earlier than '88.
I have all those articles, and more, in my research file. But the Nelson Crossdraw is not the Askins Avenger -- I was there. Though there is a clear heritage from Bruce's use of the trailing slot that he states is from the 1960s (and used on knife sheaths in the 1860s). Bruce's original holster (a) has no mouth band, (b) is an acknowledged crossdraw because (c) he marketed it as a crossdraw and (d) its straight vertical carry and belt loop (on the rear) design are what make it work as a crossdraw and (e) an entirely different construction is required to make it work as a strong side draw. Sparks made/makes a copy of Bruce's crossdraw in its original form; and Sparks makes a copy of John's (and my) Avenger in our original form. But the two designs are not interchangeable: Bruce used his in crossdraw or appendix position because that's the only location his design works in (and adapted to 'appendix' carry); and the Avenger is only a strong side draw because that's the only position it works in.

Such is the stuff that lawsuits over intellectual property are waged :-). All infringers think what's been accomplished is 'obvious' -- after the fact; the hard part is thinking of it before the fact. Patents, for example, are "on the improvements" if you read the claims, because it's only the improvement on the old that is patentable (otherwise, 'nothing new under the sun'). The Nelson Crossdraw is not the Askins Avenger, nor vice versa. Today I make an 'avenger-style' holster that works better than even the original Avenger because I've learnt more about how the slot and the loop must be constructed; I don't think anyone would call it a copy of either the Nelson Crossdraw (not least because it's not capable of being used that way) or the Avenger (construction again very different and doesn't "do substantially the same thing in substantially the same way to accomplish substantially the same thing" as prior art is considered by U.S. patent law.

All having only to do with the current thread in that the Pistol Pocket of my design, predated even the Askins Avenger. Developed to compete with the Summer Special and Paris Theodore's holster which preceded Bruce's? You bet. A copy of either holster? No way.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:43 PM
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Well, Gee, again. In the spirit of good fun among friends:

I don’t think anyone ever looked at an Askins Avenger and thought, “It sure looks like Bianchi copied that holster mouth band from Bruce Nelson.” You moved the goal posts a bit, but given the stipulations you make, OK.

As I read the ’86 Nelson catalog, Bruce designed the #1 for straight draw and the adaptation was cross draw, although he certainly talks there more about its use cross draw. A great loss that he’s not with us to discuss it.

BTW – the man in the photo is not Tom Selleck!!
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:14 PM
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In the spirit of good fun among friends
Agreed .
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:13 PM
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Well, a very pleasant discussion on two of my favorite holsters. I am currently using a Model 3 fixed loop for a 2 1/2" model 66-1. I prefer the IWB for maximum concealment. The "Askins Avenger" is the most comfortable OWB for a large auto ever made. The Sparks holsters are a very close #2 for me but I really like the Avenger the best. I just don't care for the double/individual snaps of the Sparks IWB. I believe a single loop is sufficient but that's just my opinion having carried concealed for 30+ years. But as to the #3.... they are simply fantastic holsters. I just recently was outbid on one on ebay for a K frame 4".. very disappointed. Still on the hunt.... Love all of Bianchi's old stuff... Glad I was alive during the "golden age" of leather holster-making!
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