I want to like open top holsters, mainly due to the fact that they employ less material and are subsequently less obtrusive and bulky. However, I keep looking at them and imagining that one day I'd look down and my gun would be GONE and I wouldn't know where I lost it. Are my feelings unfounded? I don't own one now - all of mine are thumb-break holsters.

Of course you have every reason to be cautious. My suggestion is that strapless is for concealment UNDER something, so that it's not being offered to strangers; and with a strap when your employer requires it, or you're in open carry mode.

As for falling out, most of us give you several features such as wet-moulding and pressure from the welt (the original threepersons method) and in my case my 'welt' is topped by an adjustable retention roller to give the release you like:

IMG_1744.JPG

This one is a 'snapcake': a pancake style that snaps on and off the belt. There are many models available from many makers; this is simply an example of one way to give you what you're wondering about.

In summary, strapless when it can't be seen, is the ideal criterion. FBI holsters going back to the mid 1930s, such as the Myres 614 and the Hesier 457, were strapless and relied on pressure from the welt and were always covered by a coat.

Thumbsnaps became the rage in the 60s and 70s, fell out of favour by the '90s due to 'combat' shooters. I invented the 'thumrake' for autos because the thumsnap was invented for the low thumb position used on revolvers and not well-suited to the high thumb position needed to reach for the thumbsafety on, e.g., the 1911s.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

My Galco Concealment model has never given me that concern. Maybe because my 340PD weighs under 16oz loaded. I wouldn't wear it to drive go-karts but I don't have any concerns in general.

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An open top holster that does not have enough friction to hold the gun in place, or some type of mechanical retention method, may be a problem. With few exceptions modern holster makers have one or both features designed into their products.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yup, just gotta make sure there's a proper amount of molded in retention.
I've never had a problem with my daily wear 442 in my own home made holster.

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Keep on Chooglin'

I like a retention strap but I do have a Simply Rugged pancake that holds my SP101 very securely.

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Mike, AmVets Member, Navy Vet

Unfounded? Yea! After 10 years of carrying almost all week I have yet to have any gun even slightly move, giggle, rise, lower or whatever. That's assuming you're buying a quality holster and not some shopping bag in a Sami shape of a gun

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I have been using this Lobo Enhanced Pancake for 5-6 years now for my 19 and 66 snubs and never felt I would loose my weapon. A quality holster makes all the difference.

High quality manufacturers are the best bet for strapless retention holsters.

My Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 doesn't look like much at first glance but holds TIGHT and and has never given me issue in the last three years of wearing it every single day.

The most important reason for the open top is speed. They may only
be a split second quicker, but a split second could be very important.
Maybe that's why they are called speed scabbards.

As Red said, open tops are for concealment, not for open carry.

I learned a long time ago, I think from Chic Gaylord, to put my
unloaded gun in my new holster, hold it over the bed or some
other soft surface, and shake it. If you can shake it out, you
tighten the tension and try again. If you don't have a tension
adjustment screw, the holster goes in that big collection box.

Somewhere between being able to shake it out and too tight to
get it out quickly when you want to is the proper tension. That
is how I judge a holster.

So far, the best tension (gun to holster fit) I have ever experienced
is this very early (triple H) Heiser. It was before model numbers, but
is identical to model 457. It is shown with S&W's Model 10.

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In Omnia Paratus

When I hunt I use holsters with retention straps. When I, otherwise, EDC then I use open-top holsters with either a retention screw, or some sort of clamp like a Safariland, 'ALS' or a Blackhawk SERPA pushbutton lock.

I've also got open top holsters from: Del Fatti, Tucker, El Paso, and Davis. They're all tight enough for me to do several somersaults without losing the gun. (The older El Paso #88 holster I use has a steel-reinforced open top on it; and it holds — and re:holsters — the gun very well.)

Have I ever dropped a pistol out of an open-topped holster? Yes, I have. Exactly one time in more than fifty years of carrying pistols. It was a Blade-Tech Custom-Kydex holster with a tightly screwed-down tension screw; but, apparently, it wasn't screwed-down tight enough!

The pistol didn't fall out. Instead it was levered out of the holster by the extended arm of a chair that got between the holster and the butt of the gun I was carrying — I was moving fast; and that pistol flew through the air for about six feet before it finally landed on a hard linoleum floor and, fortuitously, didn't end up accidentally discharging.

Admittedly, it was a freak accident; but it just goes to show you: Freak accidents can and sometimes DO happen!

Well, since I generally carry both concealed and open, on the same day, I'd probably better stick to a holster with some sort of retention device. I may leave the house with my gun on my hip covered by an outer jacket (thereby "concealed"), but after a few trips in and out of stores, stopping by the farm, etc., the gun is by then fully exposed and I may be standing in line at the convenience store with it in full view. Thus, I'd probably better stick to something like a thumb-break retention type holster.

while i don't yet carry i do read on and look at various holster options; and yes the OP's question has popped into my head as well. I too have seen the options in the Blackhawk Serpa line that is an open top holster that will lock it in place.
Cant say if this is a route i'd take, not even sure if I'd want leather or Kydex when the time comes, but it did peak my interest somewhat.

http://www.blackhawk.com/Products/Ho...te-Finish.aspx

This is what I do. I carry my 642 in a Side Guard Holsters Quick Clip IWB holster and after over 5 years of regular use it still passes the test.

I agree that open-topped holsters are best for concealed carry or the various gun games that require a fast draw, and retention holsters are essentially required if you open carry.

However, while I prefer a well-molded open-topped holster for concealed carry, there's nothing wrong with using a retention holster for concealed carry if that suits you better, especially if you're familiar with it and well-practiced. I see no reason for you to change unless you just want to try something else.

A strapless holster is like a strapless bra...it works just fine if it is not over-burdened and is stationary. Movement and weight are unfriendly to both. Molding greatly improves retention. Here are a few examples.
The Galco Combat Master (CM202) passes the upside down shake test.


The DeSantis 019 X7 with a retention screw.


The Don Hume 721 OT, not as secure as the above holsters.

Any holster I make will hold the intended gun securely when turned upside down and shaken vigorously. Straps are like EPA regulations, they exist to make on "feel good" only.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss straps as placebos. Colbybruce's pics of old school strapless holsters show they don't have slide guards at the back, and thumb snaps automatically provide that in the form of the tab there. More coverage of the outer side of the pistol is also provided. There's nothing that says the snap needs to be done up, either.

The OP's point is well considered and surely something carriers are wondering about, even if unconsciously, when buying. And some employers, such as police agencies, absolutely require them. And for 1911 carriers the cocked hammer can create some unease even for observers.

Many of my designs are strapless with tension screws -- that DeSantis in Colbybruce's post is one I did for them -- because the cognoscenti are my target market. By definition, then, they are not for everyone.

Crazyphil: Chic didn't use adjustable tension devices, though he did use thumb snaps and pull through straps, some over the hammer and others 'round the back of the trigger guard.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

rednichols, did you design the 118 X7 for DeSantis too? It is my favorite holster for my Shield.


I tried the DeSantis 028 X7 with my Shield, I am just not a fan of IWB. I gave it to my son.

I add 'em if the customer asks for them. Otherwise, I find them unnecessary. I understand some law enforcement require retention devices. As I stated earlier, it is a "feel good" measure.

And furthermore his holsters didn't need tension screws.
I had one years ago and the fit was so good there was no
need for a tension screw.

The Price Western Model #320
is a good replica of Chic Gaylord's speed scabbard.

Thad Rybka also made me a good replica. I don't know how
they do it but the gun doesn't come out unless I want it to
come out.

Price Western on the left with S&W 642.
2nd and 3rd Thad Rybka's front and back with Ruger LCR

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In Omnia Paratus

None of my holsters are thumb breaks.

Of course, they are all either Milt Sparks or Del Fatti holsters.

Quality holsters present no retention problems.

Cheeping out on a holster is a big mistake.

I didn't do your favourite one for Gene, but I did do the one you gave away :-)

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

[QUOTE=rednichols;139370179]

Of course you have every reason to........ be cautious.

My suggestion is that strapless is for concealment UNDER something, so that it's not being offered to strangers; and with a strap when your employer requires it, or you're in open carry mode.

/QUOTE]

The two rules I've carried by; since the mid-80s......... hard to argue with simple and straight forward logic

Well, I definitely open carry quite a bit, so I guess I'd better stick with some sort of retention.

I often carried my CS-45 in an open top Street Combat holster from El Paso Saddlery. Concealed, of course! See below on open carry.

#88 "Street Combat" Holster

It is designed to retain the handgun under normal circumstances and the gun WILL stay in it if I turn it upside down.

OTOH, I really like thumb break holsters for my snubby K frames when I carry one OWB. The OWB holsters that I use ride high for concealment and the guns just feel more secure to me with the thumb breaks closed.

For IWB I feel totally differently. A handgun inside your waistband is generally held so well secured by your belt and your body that even a junky, loose holster will probably retain your weapon even if you stand on your head.

As for open carry, I don't do it, but if I did I would use a holster that is specifically designed for retention but, at a minimum, there would be a closed thumb break to protect the gun from prying fingers.

Whether or not I need a retention strap depends on the type holster I'm using. I open carry daily, but not in places where I need to worry about people seeing/grabbing my gun. My only worry is losing one if a horse starts pitching.

I often use holsters styled after the Lawrence 120 (or an actual 120) and I tuck the strap into my belt out of the way unless I get into the saddle. If hunting I also snap them in when climbing in and out of a tree stand.

I like the convenience of being able to draw without a strap, especially if the gun is under a heavy coat. I do have one shuck that I have total confidence in when riding that has no straps, but does have a tension screw. It is my Hank Sloan from Mike Barranti. It holds my revolver very well and has become my most used rig for all the reasons mentioned already. It is a very good holster for concealment too.

Dan

Yeah for open carry, it's this'n with the retention strap.

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Keep on Chooglin'

My Simply Rugged Pancake holsters hold my revolvers very tight. Working a horse farm, fishing, going to town and hunting my revolvers stayed secure without retention straps.

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Riding, Shooting, and Truth

I could imagine a scenario where if you didn't use a good holster designed for the gun, and if you didn't use a properly wide and rigid holster belt, and if you didn't cinch the belt snug to your body to stop it flopping around, and if you were physically active, you might drop your gun.

But of course you know better than to do those things.

When I open carry (rare for me) I want a retention device. When I conceal (most of the time) I do not. To my mind it seems reckless to open carry without a retention device of some sort. Reckless is something that I strive not to be.