HORSE OR COW?

[crazyphil]

I was reading an older post by Lefty Lewis, dba Bell-Charter-Oak,
this morning. He showed a photo of a Chic Gaylord holster and
said it was made with horsehide.
Caused me to take another look at my Chic Gaylord Combat
Speed Scabbard (left). So thin, and yet so strong, made
me think it is also possibly horse hide. The Seventrees (right)
looks like the same leather.
Any suggested ways to tell horsehide from cowhide?

[THE PILGRIM]

Way back - had some genuine Cordovan Shoes.
They’re Horse Hide.
But not sure that I can actually tell cowhide and horsehide apart either.

[turnerriver]

The holster on the top right in this Seventrees and Gaylord collection is marked Horsehide, none of the other holsters are.
I can't tell the difference and a quick Google search indicates most of us can't either.
Regards,
turnerriver

[crazyphil]

Only the horses and cows know the difference?

[Kurusu]

Stick it with a pin. If it moos, it's horse.

Er. I mean the other way around.

[indigo22]

Taste it...Usually horse has a smoother texture.

[kthom]

Only way I know to make an educated guess would be to determine if the leather seems stiffer for it's thickness compared to a known cowhide holster if each holster has the same amount of use and wear. I believe that a holster can be made from horse hide of a bit thinner leather and still maintain it's form, shape, and stiffness compared to thicker and heavier cowhide over time of use.

[rednichols]

I would rarely bet my life on knowing the difference, either. Shell cordovan, which is the pair of circular cuts from the butt of the animal, is always quite thin. Perhaps 7 oz or so? Therefore one could readily tell the inverse: if the leather is thick it's cowhide.

The few I've made with horsehide aren't readily distinguished from cowhide because I line my holsters and embellish them with structural pieces.

Both Chic and Paris lived on a different era, when there were more than one horse tanner and prices may have been more attractive. I do believe that shoemakers chose it for toe caps because of how the leather behaved during the lasting process (stretched onto the mould or last) where predictably excellent results made the cost worth bearing. The closest we holster makers would have to this problem is moulding double mag pouches. And small makers don't do this at all.

[keith44spl]

Well, I've skin't the hide off'n both.........

Horse hide makes the best baseball covers.

High quality cowhide (moulding grade) makes the best pistol shucks. IMHO

Jest a lit'l ol cowboy trivia question,
"If you see a cow laying down chewing their cud, when she gets up, which end comes up first?"

Okay, for equal time,
"If ya see a horse lying down, when he gets up, which end comes up last?"

.

[Pig Hunter]

Answer to the question about croupers and britchins is the same, any horses --- knows that! :-)

[crazyphil]

That is a very good question. It's been so long since I last saw a horse
or cow getting up that I can't remember for sure. But I will guess the
cow's rear comes up first and the horses rear comes up last. I have a
50% chance of being right.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by crazyphil

That is a very good question. It's been so long since I last saw a horse
or cow getting up that I can't remember for sure. But I will guess the
cow's rear comes up first and the horses rear comes up last. I have a
50% chance of being right.

You Sir are correct.

That's the only questions that I ask a prospective ranch hand before hiring.
If'n they know that, they're on their way to becoming a top hand.

.

[LEO918]

Cow gets up butt first - horse gets up front first.

P.S. Phil is a faster typist.

[crazyphil]

Reminds me of an older gent asking a young fellow if he knows the
difference between a horses tail and a pump handle. Young fellow
says no sir. Old gent says I sure don't want to take you camping and
send you for a bucket of water.

[crazyphil]

Reminds me of another one. The cowboy rides up to the saloon, ties
his pony to the hitching post. Goes around back, lifts the tail, and
gives the rear end a big kiss.

A fellow watching, asks "what in the world did you do that for"?

Cowboy says "chapped lips".

The watcher asks "does that heal the chapped lips"?

Cowboy says "nope, but it keeps me from licking my lips".

[LoboGunLeather]

In the unfinished state vegetable tanned cowhide and horsehide have distinctive appearances that a person experienced in dealing with each can tell pretty easily. In the finished product it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference visually.

There is only one North American tannery producing vegetable tanned horsehide (suitable for holster making), Horweens Tannery. Nearly all of Horweens' production is spoken for years in advance for use in baseballs, shoe making, and other specialty products. What little bit that is usually available consists of relatively small cuts, typically of the butt region. Shell cordovan, backs, and shoulder cuts are seldom seen on the open market. Those pieces that come available are quickly purchased by many smaller production shops, and there are frequently long periods during which suppliers are unable to fill orders.

During my time in the business I learned to stock up when my suppliers received new inventories. I usually tried to keep enough on hand to fill orders for 6 to 12 months, but I also purchased additional quantities when available so as to avoid lengthy delays caused by lack of inventory. Even at that I learned to limit the uses of horsehide to those holster types that benefit most from the moisture resistance and high strength to thickness provided by horsehide (particularly IWB style and shoulder holsters, which are constantly exposed to moisture in use).

Horsehide is much more dense than cowhide, which explains the inherent moisture resistance and high strength in thinner leather. Horsehide cuts very cleanly, finishes nicely, and is resistant to surface abrasion and wear. In holster making horsehide requires more time in the wet forming process and considerably more effort to achieve desired results, factors which combine with the higher cost of horsehide to drive up the prices of finished products.

Because of its denseness horsehide does not accept tooling or carving work very well. Stamping can be done, but the results remain very flat in appearance rather than the formed and sculpted effects possible with cowhide. It is rather unusual to see horsehide products with any type of markings beyond a maker's mark.

So, very limited supplies, considerably higher cost, and relatively limited applications all affect the use of horsehide in the holster industry.

[fiasconva]

Well said, Ray. I bought a horsehide IWB from Lobo for my M&P9 quite a few years ago because I knew it would be thinner than cowhide. It is still holding up great and is my go to in the warmer weather months.