Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-16-2017, 12:30 PM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default STAMPED OR CARVED?

Is there a tell-tale way to tell the difference if the holster is
stamped/embossed, or hand carved?
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 02-16-2017, 02:39 PM
lawandorder's Avatar
lawandorder lawandorder is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,176
Likes: 6,439
Liked 7,025 Times in 1,132 Posts
Default

Experience,touch, and eyesight works for me.
__________________
LEX QUOD ORDO
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 02-16-2017, 04:56 PM
Model520Fan Model520Fan is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 5,252
Likes: 2,776
Liked 2,490 Times in 1,244 Posts
Default

No expert here, but I would think that sharp edges on the work, or evidence of once-sharp edges, where the leather would have been carved, would be the best hint. Also, I believe that carving would generally have separated the surface of the leather, exposing non-surface leather at least on the side of the cut, if not more. Don't reckon stamping would do that. Obviously, this would be clearest on a floral design, or similar.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 02-16-2017, 07:03 PM
Kansasgunner Kansasgunner is online now
SWCA Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 405
Likes: 2,509
Liked 229 Times in 141 Posts
Default

Embossed leather items never have the sharp details that come from hand carving. The embossed patterns whether floral or what have you will be only as clear as the die that was used in their manufacture.
__________________
Tim
SWCA #2697
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:39 PM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

Look at policerevolvercollector's Two new to me holsters on this same
forum page. That floral holster sure looked carved to me, but I went
to the website and found that they are stamped?
__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Last edited by crazyphil; 02-18-2017 at 10:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 02-17-2017, 05:21 AM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 584
Likes: 310
Liked 1,367 Times in 446 Posts
Default

What an interesting question. Normally afloral design is not embossed with a die, but it is done. One of the answers will surprise you: look for the intentional discolouration of the leather, in the stamping that is used with the knife cuts. And speaking of that, one can look for the knife cuts.

Trouble is, if someone REALLY knows what they're doing, the die was made by nickel plating the original leather piece, then the die is heated in a press. Bingo, looks like it's been done by hand; this is the method we used at Bianchi on rifle slings. Bear in mind that it takes a lot of production to justify making a die at all.

So the final test is: when holding two that are identical models, are all the details the same between them? Because it's impossible to hand carve two pieces identically due to what I'll call "the snowflake effect". One can get 'close, but no cigar'.
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).

Last edited by rednichols; 02-17-2017 at 05:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-18-2017, 01:37 AM
bwelch47 bwelch47 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tucson,Az
Posts: 124
Likes: 4
Liked 101 Times in 43 Posts
Default

Looking at the floral holster, it appears to me as being embossed. I do no see any distinct carving. I had a friend who was a master saddlemaker named Eddie Bacon who carved many saddles. The flower for example has no signs of being carved but being stamped, The edges are too round to have been carved, Also, the holster was formed by using a stamp and not cut which is shown by the roundness of the edges.
To Red, I enjoy your many comments.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 02-18-2017, 08:44 AM
Cocked & Locked's Avatar
Cocked & Locked Cocked & Locked is online now
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silver Hill, NC
Posts: 1,829
Likes: 2,832
Liked 2,925 Times in 610 Posts
Default

What say ye on this one without me disclosing the maker (yet)?

__________________
C & L
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:13 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
What say ye on this one without me disclosing the maker (yet)?

No question about that one. It's definately hand carved.
I remember it's a Hunter because I lusted for it another
time when you posted it. Beautiful holster.
While on this subject lets show some of our carved
examples. Here, left to right, Myres, Heiser, & Lawrence.
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0416-jpg  
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 02-18-2017, 11:00 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

A few more carved examples Left to Right:

Threepersons style with "dog ear", hosting S&W model 67, made by
homicide detective Lt. Oliver O. Ball of the Ft. Worth P.D.

Myres #624 with "dog ear" and safety strap, on a Sparks belt,
occupied by the model 67. The knife is by Benchmade.

Heiser #757 shown with S&W model 10, a S&W knife, and a
Simply Rugged belt.

A Heiser #713 with a Mexican made cartridge belt and my
S&W model 19.

Chisholm Trail holster with my S&W model 29. Sparks belt
and a Case knife.
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0265-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0276-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0277-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0245-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0274-jpg  

__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 02-18-2017, 11:17 AM
Cocked & Locked's Avatar
Cocked & Locked Cocked & Locked is online now
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silver Hill, NC
Posts: 1,829
Likes: 2,832
Liked 2,925 Times in 610 Posts
Default

Yep, you got it!
__________________
C & L
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 04-08-2017, 03:09 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default C&L's flower carved Hunter holster

fat tom has the same model over on vintage J frame holster
post, except his is for a J frame.

I found an ad for this old beauty in a May 1956 American
Rifleman magazine.

They called it COMBAT ACTION HOLSTER For Peace Officers,
Detectives, Sheriffs and Guards.

"This Hunter Spring belt combat holster is built for maximum
concealment, quick access, and is equally efficient for regular
or cross-draw work. Adjustable spring tension. Gun will not
fall out."

AVAILABLE IN BLACK OR BROWN
Flower Carved holster...$6.70
Plain holster.................$4.80

I should have bought a bunch of them, but I probably could
not afford it. $6.70 was a lot of money in 1956
__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Last edited by crazyphil; 04-08-2017 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 04-08-2017, 10:55 AM
bracebeemer bracebeemer is offline
SWCA Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: southeast michigan
Posts: 389
Likes: 2,086
Liked 3,387 Times in 313 Posts
Default

A black and brown Heiser #753 and a S.D.Myers "Texas Jockstrap" all Mexican hand-carved floral design.
Bill
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3565-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3572-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3674-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3675-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3735-jpg  


Last edited by bracebeemer; 04-08-2017 at 10:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 04-08-2017, 11:31 AM
Lee's Landing Billy Lee's Landing Billy is online now
SWCA Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Battery Oaks Range, S.C.
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 4,982
Liked 2,879 Times in 1,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
fat tom has the same model over on vintage J frame holster
post, except his is for a J frame.

I found an ad for this old beauty in a May 1956 American
Rifleman magazine.

They called it COMBAT ACTION HOLSTER For Peace Officers,
Detectives, Sheriffs and Guards.

"This Hunter Spring belt combat holster is built for maximum
concealment, quick access, and is equally efficient for regular
or cross-draw work. Adjustable spring tension. Gun will not
fall out.

AVAILABLE IN BLACK OR BROWN
Flower Carved holster...$6.70
Plain holster.................$4.80

I should have bought a bunch of them, but I probably could
not afford it. $6.70 was a lot of money in 1956
You are absolutely right Phil. In this part of the world in 1956, $6.70 was a DAY'S Pay. Quite a commitment for pore folks.
__________________
Carry and shoot everyday!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 04-08-2017, 11:37 AM
boykinlp's Avatar
boykinlp boykinlp is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,172
Likes: 2,614
Liked 3,634 Times in 1,229 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bracebeemer View Post
A black and brown Heiser #753 and a S.D.Myers "Texas Jockstrap" all Mexican hand-carved floral design.
Bill
Your holsters definitely show quality hand carved floral designs. I am really fond of the "jockstrap" holsters. If you have already done it, please give me the link, if you haven't, please do a thread showing some close-up pictures of your Myres in this thread.

You really have some gems!
__________________
Each one, teach one
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 04-09-2017, 07:29 AM
bracebeemer bracebeemer is offline
SWCA Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: southeast michigan
Posts: 389
Likes: 2,086
Liked 3,387 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Thank you for the kind words boykinip. As requested, here are some close ups of two jockstrap holsters that I have.
Bill
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3745-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3742-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3743-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3744-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3730-jpg  

Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 04-09-2017, 07:34 AM
bracebeemer bracebeemer is offline
SWCA Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: southeast michigan
Posts: 389
Likes: 2,086
Liked 3,387 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Here are a few shots of the Colorado Saddlery black jockstrap holster.
Bill
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3733-1-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3746-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3747-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3748-jpg   STAMPED OR CARVED?-img_3749-jpg  

Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:54 AM
boykinlp's Avatar
boykinlp boykinlp is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,172
Likes: 2,614
Liked 3,634 Times in 1,229 Posts
Default

Thanks, Bill!! The carving on all of those holsters is superb!!!
__________________
Each one, teach one
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 04-11-2017, 12:52 PM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 6,762
Liked 14,303 Times in 3,019 Posts
Default

*


It's those ever so slight imperfections that tell
the truth between hand made and machine.


.
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:35 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

I think Brett Neff did a purty good job on this embossed holster.
What do you all think?

P.S. The model 29 .44 mag is by S&W
The belt by Haugen
The knife by Bear
The 300-Gr. cast flat points by Federal
The Speed loaders by HKS
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0474-jpg  
__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Last edited by crazyphil; 04-12-2017 at 04:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:45 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

And I know David Keith did a darn good job of tooling on this
holster.
Belt, again, and mag pouch by Haugen.
.45 ACP Gold Cup by Colt.
Knife by Case.
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0473-jpg  
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:55 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

And an example of hand carving or Mexican carving is this Myres
model 614 Threepersons.
With S&W's model 27 on board.
On the Haugen belt.
And knife by Camillus.
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0273-jpg  
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 07-01-2017, 05:59 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 5,572
Liked 5,150 Times in 1,385 Posts
Default

So here, left to right are examples of:
Embossed by Neffleather
Carved by Myres
Tooled by Henry Cassady
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-sam_0466-jpg  
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:17 AM
jls_jeff jls_jeff is offline
Member
STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED? STAMPED OR CARVED?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Carved?

Just stumbled across the site, and this thread. I've carved a holster (or two) over the years, so interested in what other folks replied to this question.

My opinion (though I'm actually a leather "purist"), is that the hand made version should be BETTER, since (in theory) it has had the time spent to make it better.

Just one to check out... each his/her own. Carving design original artwork by Al Stohlman (about 50 years ago).
Attached Thumbnails
STAMPED OR CARVED?-dsc00237-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TOOLED OR CARVED? crazyphil Gun Leather & Carry Gear 9 09-11-2016 11:08 PM
Carved Heiser # 713 bracebeemer Gun Leather & Carry Gear 6 04-10-2016 01:55 PM
SPF Heiser 4" N Frame holster, Carved 2" M&P holster, Carved Brill 4" holster turnerriver Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 2 03-12-2014 02:39 AM
Carved Stocks...the best of the BEST! Rick Bowles The Lounge 17 11-10-2013 10:28 AM
Another Carved Holster STCM(SW) S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 1 09-30-2013 05:51 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)