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04-10-2017, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerriver
There are a few holster models with safety straps that accommodated the Centennials and Bodyguards although Red is right, strapless is best for those models.
Here's a Brauer Brothers holster that fits a wide range of J frames- this was a gift from forum member Watchdog.
Strapless Bianchi.
This one is marked "Almar New York "
An unusual Berns-Martin holster for a 2" J frame.
Another odd holster made by Western Saddlery in Tampa, Florida.
El Paso Saddlery cross draw.
I don't have this holster any more but I think it was a Gaylord.
I've always had J frame revolvers and have found a lot of holsters for them over the years.
Regards,
turnerriver
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This is the one I intended to get in the above post John.
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04-10-2017, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
It's easy to see the lineage John, from your Gaylord/Seventrees
to my Ken Null shown here.
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Yes, Null does the 'upside down' stitching, too; but notice at the welt seam that Ken has incorporated a 'welt effect' by stitching 'round the frame in front of the trigger guard, which neither Chic nor Paris did (but the amount of 'pinch' it would add for retention would be nominal, so it's largely a styling exercise). Makers often look for a 'point of difference' in stitch patterns, such as welt and belt loop areas. In that way they become like MacDonald's 'golden arches': it's a clue to tell a consumer what to expect as to the quality of the source.
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04-10-2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj
Six round cartridge slide or seven rounds loose in the front right hand (two extra rounds was insurance in case one or two pocket rounds were dropped trying to reload)
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There were belt loops that snap on with 6 rounds and dump pouches with 6 rounds sometimes with spaces for two rounds each. These were less noticeable on the belt if your jacket flapped in the wind. These days when I carry a revolver in plainclothes, I use both types and a Speed strip in the right front pocket. I carry a 640 in my front left pocket or in a Buchiemer Clark Sheriff model, which is similar to the Lewis Police Special. I carry a 19 2 1/2 in either a Kramer, a Galco, or an old school Bianchii FBI tilt holster. I went on the job in SoCal in 76. Lewis holsters and Buchiemer Clark were routinely seen on the plainclothes folks.
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04-11-2017, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjames2
There were belt loops that snap on with 6 rounds and dump pouches with 6 rounds sometimes with spaces for two rounds each. These were less noticeable on the belt if your jacket flapped in the wind. These days when I carry a revolver in plainclothes, I use both types and a Speed strip in the right front pocket. I carry a 640 in my front left pocket or in a Buchiemer Clark Sheriff model, which is similar to the Lewis Police Special. I carry a 19 2 1/2 in either a Kramer, a Galco, or an old school Bianchii FBI tilt holster. I went on the job in SoCal in 76. Lewis holsters and Buchiemer Clark were routinely seen on the plainclothes folks.
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Here Max Left to Right:
Bucheimer Sheriff carrying my vintage Charter Undercover.
Lewis Police Special snap on with my S&W Model 10 2" barrel.
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04-11-2017, 07:21 AM
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Is the Colt "D" frame the same as a "J" ?
I picked this Myres up recently and don't have anything that fits it.
Regards,
Bruce
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Bruce, the Colt "D" frame is between the Smith and Wesson "J" frame, and the "K" frame. It is a six shot 38 Special, but slightly smaller than the "K" frame six shot. For example, most of my "J" frame holsters will not accept a Detective Special, as it is very slightly larger, but my Galco pocket holster will hold either one, since it has a more generous cut.
Best Regards, Les
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Thanks Les,
This one was priced so cheap that I put myself in a "buy first, ask questions later" situation. 😊
Regards,
Bruce
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Holsters made for Detective Special accept a Ruger SP101 purty good.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce5781
Thanks Les,
This one was priced so cheap that I put myself in a "buy first, ask questions later" situation.
Regards,
Bruce
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Bruce, I sold you that one on GB.
Now you need to find a Colt DS showing some wear but unfortunately I can't help you with that.
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04-11-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -db-
Bruce, I sold you that one on GB.
Now you need to find a Colt DS showing some wear but unfortunately I can't help you with that.
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Thanks, Tom.
It was a pleasure doing business with you.
Regards,
Bruce
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03-31-2019, 01:47 PM
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I would suspect that JayFramer has found his vintage J-Frame holster
by this time. It's been almost a year. But I like to resurrect some of
these older threads. This one is an oldie but goodie. There may be
newer folks on here who haven't seen it and/or some old timers
(like me) who enjoy seeing it again.
I gave my only Roy Baker pancake away on a karma deal a while back.
Started looking for another one. I thought I wanted a "topless" but
thanks to Holstory and conversing with Red, I decided to stick to the
thumb break strap. I bought one for a J-Frame that will be here Saturday,
so I will post it on here somewhere after I get it cleaned up.
Hope you enjoy this old thread.
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03-31-2019, 02:45 PM
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Hey thanks Phil , enjoying this thread!
This old Lawrence was made for the 34 Kit Guns.
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03-31-2019, 02:53 PM
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Some of my J frame Holsters owned or sold.
2" model 36 in an EVALUATORS QUANTICO, VA FBI QUICK DRAW
2" pre Model 40 in a Bianchi # 9-R second generation shoulder holster.
3" model 49 has a home in this early unbranded pocket holster. The holster is much older than the revolver.
2" pre model 36 square butt looks great in this Roy's Original Pancake holster.
2" 22/32 pre model 34 in early Bianchi Agent #9 shoulder holster with elastic closure.
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Last edited by jimgoldth; 03-31-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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03-31-2019, 03:34 PM
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More J Frame holsters that I own or have owned. How about this Lightning Berns Martin Shoulder Holster holding my pre model 40 S&W revolver.
A Safariland model 17 holding my 22/32 2" Pre model 34 look great together.
Not all J / I frames have 2" or 3" Barrels. My 22/32 target did not have a holster until I found this H. H. HEISER MODEL 418 holster in Reno, Nevada last year. A good find.
A model 33-1 S&W 4" .38 S&W revolver fits beautifully in this Hunter model 100G17 holster.
S&W Model 60 2" .38 Special revolver in BIANCHI #5 BLACK WIDOW S&W CHIEF holster
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03-31-2019, 07:56 PM
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Here is my Mdl 36 no dash 3" in a floral carved and laced made in Mexico.
20190205_164302.jpg
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03-31-2019, 08:09 PM
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Did somebody say High Ride? I pulled this out of a box in a gun shop, back when everybody was switching from revolvers to semi-autos. Got the 36 about the same time. Got them both for a song. It's a Don Hume.
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03-31-2019, 08:44 PM
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More J / I Frame holsters. Lawrence Model 23 IWB Holster. Note that the Belt clip is leather covered. Have you seen any other IWB holster made like this? Gun is my pre model 40 Centennial.
I have tried belly band models but they do not work well for me. If you do not try something you will never know if it works for you. S&W model 60 2" is the revolver.
The Bucheimer Semi-Shoulder Holster was very popular in my area in the 1960's so I had to try one. Within a short period of time I removed the crossdraw plate and used the holster as a strong side belt holster. The revolver is a pre model 36 3" with aftermarket grips.
Bucheimer Perfect Fit Holster with S&W 1903 5th change 32 S&W Long 4 1/4" barrel.
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04-01-2019, 12:47 AM
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I'm digging the J clothes, gang!! Love these vintage holsters!!
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04-01-2019, 07:24 AM
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S&W J Frame "factory" holster - who really made it?
This is a very interesting thread and I'm really glad it was resurrected as I hadn't really even heard of some of these holster makers and the great pics from other members.
My J frames (36,60, 637) have ridden around mostly in a Smith & Wesson Model B 502 32, pat# 3,942,692 when I want to wear quality leather. This rig was meant for 3 or 4 o'clock carry with no cant.
I always wondered if S&W was really into leather goods by themselves, or being a gun maker, did they sub-let their branded leather line to someone else, and if so, was that someone (or some company) of well known quality and reputation? I know that many manufacturers in my trade do indeed make the same exact product, paint it different, and let someone else put their brand on it. I believe it is called "private labeling".
All through this 2 year old thread I didn't see a mention of S & W leather goods...so I'm just wondering...what do I really have?
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04-01-2019, 08:23 AM
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cmansguns here is a little bit about what I think I know:
Bangor-Punta acquired Smith & Wesson back in 1965.
Looking for ways to grow the business, sometime between 1967
and 1969, they acquired the holster company started by Wally
Wolfram.
They picked up the name "Blazer" that Wally had used. The Blazer
name was put on leather holsters, and also on "wessonhide" holsters,
which was an artificial leather for which they had a trademark.
Wessonhide didn't last long. Holsters made from wessonhide are
marked with the model number 19.
The all leather holsters by S&W that I have seen are all good quality.
Wally Wolfram did produce quality holsters and this carried on over
to S&W.
In 1979 S&W turned the holster division over to Bob Gould, an employee
and his partner Goodrich. Gould and Goodrich are still in business at
their North Carolina plant.
G&G also purchased what was left of George Lawrence Co.
By the way, before S&W bought the holster business, they did market
holsters that were made for them by Wally Wolfram Company.
Wally started his holster business In Albuquerque, NM where he was
a L E Officer. He settled there after being in the Army Air Corps
in WWII. In Albuquerque he called his holsters Wolf brand.
Later Wally moved to Monrovia, CA. where he also worked in
Law Enforcement, and continued his holster business. The holsters
he made in Monrovia were called Blazers.
In Monrovia a young apprentice worked for him. Perhaps you
have heard of him. His name was/is John Bianchi.
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04-01-2019, 09:01 AM
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Speaking of Bianchi, I've had this #5BHL for many years now. Still works well.
Stu
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04-01-2019, 11:33 AM
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Wow! - thanks crazyphil for the history lesson!
Thank you very much crazyphil for the Smith & Wesson holster and leather goods history lesson!
I searched the MisinfoNet for a long time and found absolutely zip about my S&W holster and here it all was...right under my nose (er....typing 2 fingers in my case).
This Forum and all of you experts knowledge is just simply amazing. I liked this lesson so much that I had our IT guy come show me this morning how to click, copy, open another document, paste your reply and scan direct to my "Gun Gear- Photos and research" Folder.
Now.........one of my favorite carry holsters is embedded in my files, and, I learned a little more about dang computers...maybe by the time I am 100+ I'll actually know enough to not be dangerous to anyone else's computer!
Thanks again Phil.
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04-01-2019, 03:00 PM
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Maybe Alamo in San Antonio, or maybe South of the Border.
Friday carried a model 10 with 2" barrel. His holster was
a Lewis, kinda like mine below with my 2" model 10, and
he wore it cross-draw. I say kinda because his was a clip
on and mine has snap on belt loops.
Malloy on Adam 12 also used the Lewis clip on for his
off duty model 36.
Friday may have carried a J Frame or Detective Special in
the earlier episodes. I can't remember.
A while back people here in Boise were writing letters to
the editor complaining about the awful noise the F-15s were
making out at Gowen Field.
I wrote a letter to the editor and told this little story:
Friday and his partner were standing on a lady's porch
talking with her, when some fighter planes went over,
quite noisy. The lady asked have you ever in your life
heard such a racket?
Friday answered: Yes Mam.....at Pearl Harbor.
He was great with those one-liners.
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04-01-2019, 05:39 PM
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I love this thread! I want every single one of these for my Js! (pre-38 and 36 no dash)
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04-01-2019, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
cmansguns here is a little bit about what I think I know:
Bangor-Punta acquired Smith & Wesson back in 1965.
Looking for ways to grow the business, sometime between 1967
and 1969, they acquired the holster company started by Wally
Wolfram.
They picked up the name "Blazer" that Wally had used. The Blazer
name was put on leather holsters, and also on "wessonhide" holsters,
which was an artificial leather for which they had a trademark.
Wessonhide didn't last long. Holsters made from wessonhide are
marked with the model number 19.
The all leather holsters by S&W that I have seen are all good quality.
Wally Wolfram did produce quality holsters and this carried on over
to S&W.
In 1979 S&W turned the holster division over to Bob Gould, an employee
and his partner Goodrich. Gould and Goodrich are still in business at
their North Carolina plant.
G&G also purchased what was left of George Lawrence Co.
By the way, before S&W bought the holster business, they did market
holsters that were made for them by Wally Wolfram Company.
Wally started his holster business In Albuquerque, NM where he was
a L E Officer. He settled there after being in the Army Air Corps
in WWII. In Albuquerque he called his holsters Wolf brand.
Later Wally moved to Monrovia, CA. where he also worked in
Law Enforcement, and continued his holster business. The holsters
he made in Monrovia were called Blazers.
In Monrovia a young apprentice worked for him. Perhaps you
have heard of him. His name was/is John Bianchi.
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Excellent of course. To 'accurize' it just a tiny bit, Wolfram was first part-owned by G.F. Cake, the LEO equipment distributor, by 1967; later that year Wolfram was acquired by Perkins at Safariland; and then BP acquired it and it became S&W Leathergoods in 1969. It was still called that when their product manager Gould acquired it in '85; and t'was circa 1990 that their agreement called for Gould to give up the S&W name. Point Blank acquired G&G in 2017.
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04-01-2019, 08:07 PM
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This has been an excellent thread. I recently read a book called "Renowned Gun Leather" that has some great holster history and photographs in it. It has me looking for holsters instead of revolvers, which is good on the pocketbook.
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04-01-2019, 08:09 PM
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….I have another one. Roy Baker with my 36 nd 3"
20190312_194121 (2).jpg
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04-01-2019, 08:15 PM
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I like this one from Mike Barranti - rides high and simple with a neutral cant. It obviously isn't vintage in make, but pretty vintage in design.
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I’m always looking for vintage leather - especially for the “little guns”. I came across this “Bianchi Shadow #8L S&W Chief” just now and had to grab it. Lots of folks were “watching” so I didn’t hesitate! Rednichols, the authority, suggests late 70's vintage.
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04-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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Now for my last J frame holster and it is my favorite one. Floral carved with no makers mark.
IMG_0746.jpg
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04-02-2019, 11:08 PM
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I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to all for taking the time to post pictures.
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04-03-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols
Excellent of course. To 'accurize' it just a tiny bit, Wolfram was first part-owned by G.F. Cake, the LEO equipment distributor, by 1967; later that year Wolfram was acquired by Perkins at Safariland; and then BP acquired it and it became S&W Leathergoods in 1969. It was still called that when their product manager Gould acquired it in '85; and t'was circa 1990 that their agreement called for Gould to give up the S&W name. Point Blank acquired G&G in 2017.
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Here’s a Wolfram history lesson in one holster. Three marks- The Blazer is a Wolfram mark, the Geo. F. Cake Co. diamond stamp and the Wolf Brand Albuquerque oval stamp under the belt loop. 3 is the Wolfram size code for a 2” M&P revolver. Colt marked Wolfram holsters were 1960 up to about 1968 and Smith and Wesson logos followed.
A very early S&W Wolfram made holster using the Wolfram size code 2A, for a 3” J frame. Smith and Wesson used a couple of different size identification systems, this code is from the Wolfram catalog.The model 30 in it has something wrong with it, I corrected it after the photo. No prize for the correct answer except being labeled an observant forum member.
Regards,
turnerriver
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Where's the grip screw?
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04-03-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OFT II
Where's the grip screw?
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Right where I left it when I last had this revolver out, fortunately. Now it’s back where it belongs.
Regards,
turnerriver
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turnerriver
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04-03-2019, 12:51 PM
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My contribution. It's not outside the waistband but it gives insight to period carry options. I have a 1959 model 36 flatlatch with one installed that I still use once in a while when I'm feeling nostalgic.
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04-03-2019, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerriver
Here’s a Wolfram history lesson in one holster. Three marks- The Blazer is a Wolfram mark, the Geo. F. Cake Co. diamond stamp and the Wolf Brand Albuquerque oval stamp under the belt loop. 3 is the Wolfram size code for a 2” M&P revolver. Colt marked Wolfram holsters were 1960 up to about 1968 and Smith and Wesson logos followed.
A very early S&W Wolfram made holster using the Wolfram size code 2A, for a 3” J frame. Smith and Wesson used a couple of different size identification systems, this code is from the Wolfram catalog.The model 30 in it has something wrong with it, I corrected it after the photo. No prize for the correct answer except being labeled an observant forum member.
Regards,
turnerriver
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When you find an example that has blazer, wolf, cake, colt AND s&w all on the one holster, let us know :-). Oh, and Pitt, too.
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Red Nichols The Holstorian
Last edited by rednichols; 04-04-2019 at 12:08 AM.
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04-04-2019, 12:12 AM
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I purchased a 34-1 yesterday and wonder if one of the above holsters are available for sale somewhere. Posted by jimgoldth, is the Roys Original Pancake holster. Does "Roy" still make holsters? I like the pancake style, and wear a Rodek made holster, but he does not use a lighter brown color, which I would like.
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Kevin in Oregon
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04-04-2019, 12:23 AM
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Mr. Pedantic here; this is only kinda true:
"3 is the Wolfram size code for a 2” M&P revolver."
Here's why, but hard to illustrate with the 2" M&P in his range. Wally actually assigned a unique number to the holster/pistol combination; so the same fitment in another holster got an altogether different number. So: none of his holster models had the same number; and neither did any of his fitments have the same number. Example from his own 1967 catalog, and he followed this methodology with all his 'brands':
wolfram '67.jpg
So if one picks up a '3' one will have the holster that turnerriver is illustrating; every time: same model, same fitment. But no other Wolfram model will ever be marked '3' to indicate it is another style that fits the 2" M&P. Geez, I'm confusing myself. There was good reason that no other company ever used his method.
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Red Nichols The Holstorian
Last edited by rednichols; 04-04-2019 at 12:25 AM.
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04-04-2019, 01:07 AM
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I have a couple.
A Eubanks for a 2" and a Hunter (with a cartridge loop belt) for a 3"
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04-04-2019, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols
When you find an example that has blazer, wolf, cake, colt AND s&w all on the one holster, let us know :-). Oh, and Pitt, too.
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Professor Pedant:
I think John can probably do that. If not, only because he let
me have some of them. It's no problem for me. Here are all
six of those marks you mentioned. All on "one" holster. (#1)
that is. Left to Right.
The Blazer
The Wolf (and Pitt)
The Blazer (with Cake)
The Colt
The S&W
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In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 04-04-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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04-04-2019, 03:41 AM
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Ever since I gave my Baker Pancake away I have been looking for another
one, preferably for my J Frames. Well I finally found one on the big auction site.
Seller unequivocally called it a J Frame in his ad. Well, it came in the mail
yesterday, and to my disappointment it was way to big for my J Frame.
Tried a Snub K Frame. Not big enough.
Tried my Colt's Agent. Fits just right. Only problem is I have removed
the hammer spur and single action notch from my Agent, so the thumb
break snap would not keep the Agent in the holster.
I sent a message to the seller, and was not too complimentary. I will
keep the pancake, but it is probably doomed to a life as a wall hanger.
If I had all those charts that Professor Pedant mentioned, I probably
would have known that size 19 was not for J Frames.
Here are a couple of photos. It looks black, but in reality it is kind of
a reddish dark brown. Cordovan?
The belt is by Simply Rugged. The knife is by Kershaw, called the
Junkyard Dog II.
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In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 04-04-2019 at 05:48 AM.
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04-04-2019, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
Ever since I gave my Baker Pancake away I have been looking for another
one, preferably for my J Frames. Well I finally found one on the big auction site.
Seller unequivocally called it a J Frame in his ad. Well, it came in the mail
yesterday, and to my disappointment it was way to big for my J Frame.
Tried a Snub K Frame. Not big enough.
Tried my Colt's Agent. Fits just right. Only problem is I have removed
the hammer spur and single action notch from my Agent, so the thumb
break snap would not keep the Agent in the holster.
I sent a message to the seller, and was not too complimentary. I will
keep the pancake, but it is probably doomed to a life as a wall hanger.
If I had all those charts that Professor Pendant mentioned, I probably
would have known that size 19 was not for J Frames.
Here are a couple of photos. It looks black, but in reality it is kind of
a reddish dark brown. Cordovan?
The belt is by Simply Rugged. The knife is by Kershaw, called the
Junkyard Dog II.
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Baker fitment markings were quite literal; most makers appealing to the retail market (Bianchi, Safariland, Galco) used literal markings and it appears Baker followed suit. So 19 means Model 19 S&W K frame, barrel length unspecified :-).
P.S. Nice that my word 'pedantic' got changed to 'pendant' by your spellchecker (very different meanings though).
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Red Nichols The Holstorian
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04-04-2019, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols
Baker fitment markings were quite literal; most makers appealing to the retail market (Bianchi, Safariland, Galco) used literal markings and it appears Baker followed suit. So 19 means Model 19 S&W K frame, barrel length unspecified :-).
P.S. Nice that my word 'pedantic' got changed to 'pendant' by your spellchecker (very different meanings though).
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I tried a K frame and the holster seems to be a bit small
for it. It was apparently made for a 3" barrel. I will try
my model 19. The extra inch can stick out of the bottom.
By the way it was lucky B who made the spelling error,
not the spell checker. I meant Professor Pedant. I meant
it in a good way, not as an insult.
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04-04-2019, 05:51 AM
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Here it is with model 19. PERFECT! (except for that inch hanging out)
That is why you are the professor and I am still a student.
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In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 04-04-2019 at 06:02 AM.
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04-04-2019, 05:58 AM
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I like this old Hunter with neutral cant, so I can wear it cross draw.
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John
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04-04-2019, 06:48 AM
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I really don't like the look of the extra inch hanging out of the bottom
of a holster, like my 4" model 19 above. The 2" model 10 seems to
fit OK and I like the look much better.
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04-09-2019, 10:46 AM
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I ordered this holster from a seller on ebay who represented it as fitting
snub nosed K Frames. When it came I quickly found out K frame would
not fit in it. But J Frame does fit just right, so it fits in this thread too.
It's by Bianchi. Dark brown suede. I have always heard they are very
comfortable, so I am going to find out.
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04-09-2019, 01:31 PM
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My only 'vintage' holster, a Bianchi 5B. She's a little tight on the belt but otherwise still works like a champ. Sorry about the terrible pictures.
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05-08-2019, 04:24 PM
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Gun Safety is no accident.
Last edited by jimgoldth; 05-08-2019 at 04:33 PM.
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