|
|
04-10-2017, 09:46 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,969
Liked 3,524 Times in 1,127 Posts
|
|
Maker Specific--Gaylord and Seventrees
Charles “Chic” Gaylord and Paris Theodore (Seventrees Holsters) were both holster makers in New York City in the 1960s and 1970s.
Gaylord’s designs were taken over by “Lefty” Lewis of Bell Charter Oak holsters; Seventrees design rigs are now made by Ken L. Null.
Some of these holsters are unmarked but are Gaylord rigs as best I can determine, partly based on stitching recognition by “Red” Nichols as explained in another thread on the Forum.
Though not marked, this appears to be a Gaylord Treasury Thunderbolt.
An interesting feature is the leather piece situated in the bottom portion of the belt loop.
This slightly forces the bottom of the holster away from the body while slightly forcing the upper part of the gun into the body.
This prevents the gun from “hanging” or flopping away from the body at the uppermost part.
This is another Gaylord rig; I believe it’s a model of the Federal Speed Scabbard for K-frame guns.
A Gaylord Defender inside the waistband holster for the Government Model .45. This has a faint Gaylord stamp on the top.
Unusual Seventrees marked paddle style rig for a revolver; probably designed as a Small Of Back holster.
Seventrees Model RSS for J-frame. This was made by Ken Null; he told me he used this stamp until 1975 when he moved to Georgia where he now operates.
__________________
John
|
The Following 22 Users Like Post:
|
-db-, bracebeemer, bronco45, bruce5781, crazyphil, crsides, Darkenfast, DevilDog72, hs125, jimgoldth, Kansasgunner, ki5mc, lawandorder, Lee Barner, Lee's Landing Billy, les.b, P.44, parsonbw, Russell Cottle, scooterfiend, Texas Star, turnerriver |
04-11-2017, 03:43 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Gaylord & Seventrees Reproductions
Those original Gaylord and Seventrees are very scarce.
I have a few reproductions. Below left to right:
RSS (Revolver Super Speed) by Ken Null
Gaylord Combat Speed Scabbard by Lefty Lewis dba Bell-Charter-Oak.
Gaylord Speed Scabbard by Thad Rybka.
Gaylord Speed Scabbard by PWL (Price Western Leather)
When I first saw PWL's version on their PWL-USA site they
called in an eightball. I pointed out to them that the eightball
was Chic's style of a pocket holster. Eight in the side pocket.
Get it? BTW the piece is Ruger's SP101 .357 with Crimson Trace,
the belt by Milt Sparks, the knife a Junkyard Dog II by Kershaw.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following 11 Users Like Post:
|
-db-, bronco45, DevilDog72, hs125, JayCeeNC, jimgoldth, Kansasgunner, les.b, P.44, Russell Cottle, Texas Star |
04-11-2017, 12:44 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
__________________
SWHF #448
|
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-11-2017, 04:59 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,969
Liked 3,524 Times in 1,127 Posts
|
|
Neat rigs, -db-!
The Gaylord Luger Holster has to be one of a kind.
__________________
John
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-11-2017, 05:11 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCeeNC
Neat rigs, -db-!
The Gaylord Luger Holster has to be one of a kind.
|
That's one I've parted with but yes, I would assume there weren't many made, not only because it's for a Luger but the belt loop is very small, an inch or less if I remember correctly. Someone wanted a good holster that could be worn on a thin dress belt.
__________________
SWHF #448
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-12-2017, 05:52 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
The little folded-up Seventrees reminds that Paris was seemingly obsessed with making his designs from a single blank. You will see this in most of his models and in his drawings of new designs and in his patents, too.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-13-2017, 05:31 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 15,045
Liked 10,822 Times in 2,009 Posts
|
|
Thank you guys for sharing images of these two makers work. Both pretty scarce.
__________________
LEX ET ORDO
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-14-2017, 10:14 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by -db-
That's one I've parted with but yes, I would assume there weren't many made, not only because it's for a Luger but the belt loop is very small, an inch or less if I remember correctly. Someone wanted a good holster that could be worn on a thin dress belt.
|
The trousers belts of Chic's era were always narrow, about 1" wide. It was the '70s that brought us wider belts, derived from the hippie culture of the period.
Which reminds me, in reviewing my copy of Chic's 'Handgunners Guide', I was surprised to see that he considered Tom Threepersons' holster to be perhaps the best ever; though there's no indication that he understood the role of the welts in a Threepersons because Chic did not use them.
Chic's book, encountered in a public library in Oakland in 1966 when this young teen moved there from London, England, is what inspired me to be a holster designer/maker. Oakland, as an aside, was a venue right out of the original Dirty Harry films then.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-15-2017, 02:30 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
__________________
SWHF #448
|
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-16-2017, 07:33 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Chic tells us, in his book, how to make the Missouri Skin Tight holster.
I made this one for fun. Don't tell me. I know I won't make it as a
holster maker.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-14-2017, 06:00 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
__________________
SWHF #448
|
The Following 11 Users Like Post:
|
crazyphil, DevilDog72, JayCeeNC, jimgoldth, ki5mc, lawandorder, les.b, Russell Cottle, SG-688, Texas Star, turnerriver |
07-14-2017, 10:27 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,969
Liked 3,524 Times in 1,127 Posts
|
|
That's a pretty extreme angle cross-draw; I've not seen one like that before.
Nice catch.
__________________
John
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-17-2017, 05:16 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by -db-
|
Look inside for markings of cylinder flutes. I expect its for a DA revolver. Glocks are dimensionally quite similar to the 1911 and the big autos are well known to fit into DA revolver holsters but losing the grip clearance for the second finger's knuckle.
First time I've seen Chic's mark rendered in ink. Its use is significant but of what I dunno.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-17-2017, 08:17 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
Red, looking inside for impressions and other clues is always one of the first things I do with mystery holsters like this and usually I'm able to figure out the gun this way but this one shows only long rectangular witness wear from an unknown semi-auto slide. Futhermore, the holster body itself is very flat and square (rectangular in shape looking down into the mouth whereas holsters for revolvers are typically oval in shape from this same angle) with no boning for a revolver cylinder. I could probably come close to figuring out what gun it was actually made for by researching which older pistols were roughly the same size/shape as a modern Glock 43. It may be for an Officers model 1911 or something similarly smaller.
__________________
SWHF #448
Last edited by -db-; 07-17-2017 at 08:18 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-18-2017, 04:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by -db-
Red, looking inside for impressions and other clues is always one of the first things I do with mystery holsters like this and usually I'm able to figure out the gun this way but this one shows only long rectangular witness wear from an unknown semi-auto slide. Futhermore, the holster body itself is very flat and square (rectangular in shape looking down into the mouth whereas holsters for revolvers are typically oval in shape from this same angle) with no boning for a revolver cylinder. I could probably come close to figuring out what gun it was actually made for by researching which older pistols were roughly the same size/shape as a modern Glock 43. It may be for an Officers model 1911 or something similarly smaller.
|
Well done. Tho I doubt there were any Officer's models in Chic's day :-). As I recall there is a list on Wikipedia of all pistols and revolvers along with their introduction date. With Chic I reckon you'd have to stop at the early '60s. The muzzle end is quite rounded inside, one wouldn't expect a square ended auto. Good luck!
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-19-2017, 11:36 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: southern louisiana
Posts: 166
Likes: 189
Liked 84 Times in 38 Posts
|
|
1950's 8-Ball pocket holster
by Chic Gaylord.
|
The Following 11 Users Like Post:
|
-db-, crazyphil, DevilDog72, JayCeeNC, jimgoldth, ki5mc, lawandorder, les.b, rednichols, Russell Cottle, turnerriver |
02-21-2018, 02:08 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 13,995
Liked 5,919 Times in 1,761 Posts
|
|
Here's a Gaylord for a 6" N-frame I don't believe I've shown before:
__________________
SWHF #448
|
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-21-2018, 03:40 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCeeNC
Charles “Chic” Gaylord and Paris Theodore (Seventrees Holsters) were both holster makers in New York City in the 1960s and 1970s.
Gaylord’s designs were taken over by “Lefty” Lewis of Bell Charter Oak holsters; Seventrees design rigs are now made by Ken L. Null.
Some of these holsters are unmarked but are Gaylord rigs as best I can determine, partly based on stitching recognition by “Red” Nichols as explained in another thread on the Forum.
Though not marked, this appears to be a Gaylord Treasury Thunderbolt.
An interesting feature is the leather piece situated in the bottom portion of the belt loop.
This slightly forces the bottom of the holster away from the body while slightly forcing the upper part of the gun into the body.
This prevents the gun from “hanging” or flopping away from the body at the uppermost part.
This is another Gaylord rig; I believe it’s a model of the Federal Speed Scabbard for K-frame guns.
A Gaylord Defender inside the waistband holster for the Government Model .45. This has a faint Gaylord stamp on the top.
Unusual Seventrees marked paddle style rig for a revolver; probably designed as a Small Of Back holster.
Seventrees Model RSS for J-frame. This was made by Ken Null; he told me he used this stamp until 1975 when he moved to Georgia where he now operates.
|
I don't think the Gaylord and Seventrees holsters were unmarked
by the makers. They marked them in the rough side of the leather
and with a little wear the mark disappears. I have 2
Gaylords and 1 Seventrees that do not have marks, but Red
authenticated them by the stitch signatures.
Here, left to right:
Chic Gaylord Combat Speed Scabbard with S&W model 29.
Seventrees Combat Speed Scabbard with S&W model 19
Chic Gaylord small speed scabbard with S&W model 642
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 02-21-2018 at 03:42 PM.
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-21-2018, 09:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 414
Liked 2,223 Times in 619 Posts
|
|
A probable but unmarked auto pistol version of -db-'s Seventrees security holster and pictures from the patent application.
UPDATE: Red Nichols found a better patent - the holster is actually by Robert Angell, predating the Seventrees by a couple of years.
UPDATE ...to the update:
We discovered that Angell worked for both Chic Gaylord and Seventrees, perhaps being the conduit of Gaylord's design theories to Seventrees.
Angell later had his own company, Active Leather, with similar one-piece designs.
Last edited by SG-688; 10-20-2021 at 09:15 PM.
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-22-2018, 01:22 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 858
Liked 4,405 Times in 1,084 Posts
|
|
I went into Chick's shop in 1964 and had him make a gun belt for me. Sorry for the lack of quality in the photo but it is all I have of that era. I think it was closer to 1.5" than 1".
Stu
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-26-2018, 11:25 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,916
Likes: 3,522
Liked 6,744 Times in 2,626 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by -db-
|
This is a mystery, but when I first looked at it, I thought I could see the open top slide of a little Beretta pistol - like the Model 84 or 85.
On the other hand, the simplest explanation is often the best. Gaylord was in NYC, and the J frame revolver was king then, so this could be for a 3 inch revolver.
Who knows. . . .
Last edited by shawn mccarver; 07-26-2018 at 11:30 PM.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-27-2018, 12:50 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 104,950
Liked 22,296 Times in 4,529 Posts
|
|
I couldn't afford one of Chic's holsters, but I found his 1960 book!! I believe it's a first edition:
Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
Last edited by les.b; 07-27-2018 at 12:51 AM.
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-27-2018, 01:00 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Moscow, Idaho USA
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 9,623
Liked 1,696 Times in 679 Posts
|
|
Dang! Now I need one of those Treasury Thunderbolts in Left hand for my Model 19 2.5". Hope someone could make me one?
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-28-2018, 07:44 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Moscow, Idaho USA
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 9,623
Liked 1,696 Times in 679 Posts
|
|
Ain't joking, have 3 different 2.5" holsters for 19 and they are all top heavy causing the gun to flop. Like that wad of leather at the bottom to push the butt of the weapon into the ribs. I'm skinny now so that works for me.
Treasury Thunderbolt with the pull thru snaps!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-29-2018, 08:23 AM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
I couldn't afford one of Chic's holsters, but I found his 1960 book!! I believe it's a first edition:
Best Regards, Les
|
It looks like my copy, bought soon after the book appeared. I was about 17-19 then, depending on the exact year I got it.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-29-2018, 02:30 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco45
Dang! Now I need one of those Treasury Thunderbolts in Left hand for my Model 19 2.5". Hope someone could make me one?
|
Take a look at Ken Null's VAM on his web page.
He got the patterns from Paris Theodore aka Seventrees,
Paris worked for, and copied, Chic Gaylords designs.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-30-2018, 06:37 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,916
Likes: 3,522
Liked 6,744 Times in 2,626 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco45
Dang! Now I need one of those Treasury Thunderbolts in Left hand for my Model 19 2.5". Hope someone could make me one?
|
I think Bell Charter Oak still makes that model. Check with them.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-20-2021, 08:41 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
JayCeeNC - in your post #1 You say the Thunderbolt looks like Chic
Gaylord. Not a real good view of the back, but from the side view the
stitching sure looks like Seventrees. I know Seventrees copied some
of Chic Gaylord's holster, but didn't know he made the Thunderbolt.
Here is a Chic Gaylord stitch signature on the left, and a Seventrees
on the right.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 10-20-2021 at 08:49 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-20-2021, 10:11 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,969
Liked 3,524 Times in 1,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
JayCeeNC - in your post #1 You say the Thunderbolt looks like Chic
Gaylord. Not a real good view of the back, but from the side view the
stitching sure looks like Seventrees.
|
You may be right, Phil.
__________________
John
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-20-2021, 10:42 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Do you have a photo of the back you could post?
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
10-21-2021, 10:42 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,969
Liked 3,524 Times in 1,127 Posts
|
|
Trying to add a pic here, Phil.
__________________
John
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2021, 11:16 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Yep, that's an almost exact copy of Chic Gaylord's Thunderbolt, made by
Seventrees. In the catalog, Paris says they have over 300 designs, so I
suspect quite a few of them are borrowed from Chic Gaylord. Very, very
interesting. I learn something new almost every day here on the forum.
Thanks for posting that JayCeeNC
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|