|
|
07-20-2017, 09:11 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
An update on Tom Threepersons and his holster
Update on Tom Threepersons: It's now abundantly clear, after collecting five hundred references that have confirmed Jim Coffey's monograph on the subject, that not only were there two Tom Threepersons, but the lawman we know actually took the identity of the other. There was not 'confusion'; it was quite intentional.
The Tom Three Persons who won in Calgary in 1912, a Blood Indian living in Alberta (interestingly was considered a British citizen) and born 1889, was not the man who appeared at rodeo in Arizona in 1916 claiming to be that same Tom Three Persons born 1889; but as a Cherokee. The two-word spelling was not an accident. "Our" Tom immediately joined the U.S. Army as Thomas Three Persons (still two words) and was known by this spelling until he left the Army, at which point the El Paso City Directory lists him as Thomas Threepersons, blacksmith.
All of Tom's identity was taken from the Blood's: the name, NWMP service, time in Alberta, winning the Calgary Stampede, rancher, Indian; all of it. The Blood Indian lived until 1946 until, ironically, he died as a result of wounds in a small stampede of his own horses on his ranch in Alberta. "Our" Tom's accomplices: wife Lorene, a Cherokee writer who was his second wife after his first wife and mother of his only child (alsop Cherokee) died whilst Tom had her in Mexico on the Cudahay Ranch; Eugene Cunningham; and Oren Arnold, both men being accomplished writers and novelists. Lorene gave all of Tom's interviews; Oren Arnold called him "the taciturn Indian" and said that he had to interview Lorene to get his stories. Cunningham and Arnold likely never knew what happened to them! One story indicates that Tom served in Germany in WW1, when that is provably false.
Legend has it that Tom was a lawman throughout the 1920s who took occasional breaks for ranching. The reality is that he was a lawman at El Paso Police Department beginning 1920 who took breaks to serve with other agencies -- notably Treasury where his appointment was only for 3 months (served 6) and Customs -- until he was asked to resign from EPPD at the end of 1927. He never served as a lawman again, ranching in NM until his death in 1969. He sold his guns in December of 1929, likely because he needed the money: the Crash of '29 was on the last day of October that year. He sold his last gun, an SAA, the month after Lorene died in '68, took his third wife immediately after.
The holster legend? Absolutely true: the evidence is that he took his Egland holster, and his friend's Brill along with the friend (Ranger Trimble) to Sam Myres; and it was Myres' "Threepersons Style Holsters" that both saved Myres' company from failure after the Crash of '29, and launched the style that we all know and love to this very day. Lost in translation: the very functional internal welt structure that is not used today because it adds a level of difficulty to the build (certainly Myres and Brill knew about these welts, and it was Arno Brill himself who created Myres' Threepersons line for the 1931 launch). Why? Prudence: he needed money and Sam agreed to pay him a royalty; and it must have worked for both men because Tom was able to buy his TV Ranch in Grant county NM, and Sam was able to save his company (well documented events).
Did "our" Tom leave El Paso in part because the truth had caught up with him? Well, I've only been able to locate a single newpaper article about him as Cherokee, that repeated the legend into what we now call Canada; and that was in the late 1930s whilst Three Persons himself died in 1946. I doubt we'll ever know if the Blood Indian knew his identity had been expropriated (called "ghosting" and not uncommon circa 1900).
Update on his holster: I made the decision that the second series of Tom Threepersons' holster would be an Improved version. With the first I resisted any such temptation, because the series' purpose was to preserve the details of Tom's original in case the original never makes it back to USA.
This second one is everything the original could have been if they'd known then what we know now, about 'ideal'. His carry angle, and his drop, and his welt configuration that grips the SAA frame, remain unchanged; they were perfect 'as delivered'. The belt loop, though, has been sculpted at the grip to allow a clean grasp of the pistol and remove the stresses that twisted the grip inward and the hammer outward from the body. The tip of the belt loop has been re-sculpted to take the stress of the traditional "Myres" type loop used on his holster (tho it is not a Myres) using a method I created circa 1970: it changes the stress on the stitches from end-loaded (Tom's holster had been resewn at the corners) to side-loaded. That and nylon thread makes the structure extremely strong. Also added: full kangaroo lining (surprisingly similar leather to the half linings used on Brill and Sessums holsters), increased coverage of the cylinder, removable leg strap (original is riveted in place), and the welt stitching reconfigured to 'give witness' to Tom's unusually supportive welt. I say "Tom's" but likely it was the builder, believed to be Egland in Douglas AZ, who came up with it in response to the Brill of ten years earlier.
Apologies as usual, for the use of a Nichols (no relation) capgun in the holster; there are no guns here. This one, however, has been meticulously altered to match one of Tom's SAAs both dimensionally and cosmetically; note the odd modification to the rear sight.
t3p2 second series no. 1 (1).jpg
t3p2 second series no. 1 (2).jpg
t3p2 second series no. 1 (3).jpg
t3p2 second series no. 1 (4).jpg
t3p2 second series no. 1 (5).jpg
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
Last edited by rednichols; 07-20-2017 at 09:28 PM.
|
The Following 33 Users Like Post:
|
-db-, 153, 6518John, Big Cholla, bmcgilvray, boykinlp, bronco45, buffhuntr, Bullseye 2620, crazyphil, Doc Barranti, eb07, Enigma, GerSan69, gwpercle, hs125, jlrhiner, Kansasgunner, ki5mc, kld555, Kurusu, les.b, LoboGunLeather, MP1983, OLDSTER, Onomea, Pig Hunter, quinn, Russell Cottle, SDH, SG-688, THE PILGRIM, usmc2427765 |
07-20-2017, 09:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 1,916
Liked 2,384 Times in 1,066 Posts
|
|
Red, Thanks for the great history lesson concerning Tom Threepersons and his life and holsters. Your rendition of his holster looks really excellent.
Last edited by Bob L; 07-20-2017 at 09:44 PM.
Reason: spelling
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-20-2017, 10:09 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,419
Likes: 10,428
Liked 28,236 Times in 5,273 Posts
|
|
Thanks for the lesson.. That is one fine job of hide bending right there.
Outstanding.
__________________
Eccentric old coot
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-20-2017, 10:29 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ALBUQUERQUE, NM
Posts: 13,896
Likes: 8,099
Liked 25,430 Times in 8,552 Posts
|
|
I see he's buried in Silver City, NM.
I'll try to locate his grave the next time I'm down that way.
__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-20-2017, 10:45 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM
I see he's buried in Silver City, NM.
I'll try to locate his grave the next time I'm down that way.
|
Indeed he's buried here:
Masonic Cemetery
Silver City
Grant County
New Mexico, USA
His gravestone indicating a birth in 1899 vs. 1889 only adds to the confusion. Not least because that would have made him a 13 year old Arizona horse rancher (1912).
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-20-2017, 11:56 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: West Texas
Posts: 62
Likes: 934
Liked 93 Times in 19 Posts
|
|
Just to confirm a few things in Red's pasting above. I wrote the monograph referenced in his posting. It was published several years ago by the Institute of Texas Cultures and was well received at the time. Unfortunately, it was on their website and there had to be room for some other materials and it disappeared into the cloud, or wherever things go about a year after i's original publication.
I am currently working on a book about Tom expanding the original publication by using his personal papers. There is no publication date at this point although negotiations with the publisher began yesterday. I hope to go beyond the newspaper accounts and generally accepted sources to look at this enigmatic figure. I am hoping for publication perhaps in January but it is difficult to say with publishers. Watch for it if you have interest in Threepersons
Jim Coffey
__________________
Guero
|
The Following 20 Users Like Post:
|
27 Man, bmcgilvray, bronco45, buffhuntr, crazyphil, GerSan69, Gpsman, hs125, JayCeeNC, Joe Kent, lawandorder, les.b, LoboGunLeather, Onomea, Pig Hunter, quinn, rednichols, REM 3200, Russell Cottle, wheelgun610 |
07-21-2017, 12:11 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 104,950
Liked 22,296 Times in 4,529 Posts
|
|
Red:
Thanks again for more holster lore. When I joined the forum just a couple of years ago, I was blissfully unaware of just how profound my ignorance of holster history was!! Now, thanks to you and others like turnerriver, crazyphil and others, I have a better knowlege of the true depth of just how much I don't know!!
But I learn from all of your posts.
Being a holstorian (tm) in a country where you can't own guns to put in them must be frustrating at times!! We would gladly welcome you back here in the states....
Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 12:49 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
Red:
Thanks again for more holster lore. When I joined the forum just a couple of years ago, I was blissfully unaware of just how profound my ignorance of holster history was!! Now, thanks to you and others like turnerriver, crazyphil and others, I have a better knowlege of the true depth of just how much I don't know!!
But I learn from all of your posts.
Being a holstorian (tm) in a country where you can't own guns to put in them must be frustrating at times!! We would gladly welcome you back here in the states....
Best Regards, Les
|
I was just reading that Texas is the destination for disaffected Californians like me! After a stoush with my Australian sister in law over U.S. politics, because she styles herself as amongst the cognoscenti about how the world SHOULD be run without interference from the bloody Yanks, I was reminded that the locals get only the most distorted news about you all over there. I pointed out to her that being forced to vote in California, my vote didn't count under the electoral system. That's OK, I love my countries (citizen of both) including the electoral system!
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 02:36 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Well done Red. t3p2 second series no. 1 looks like a really nice job.
But so does t3p1 first series no. 1.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 01:06 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 18,642
Liked 11,129 Times in 3,312 Posts
|
|
Great job. At some point, I am going to have to get one of your holsters!!
__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 02:31 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5,932
Liked 5,259 Times in 1,732 Posts
|
|
Great job in researching Canadian and USA history to such an extent from your home in Australia. It is fascinating to me just how small the world has been shrunk by the use of the Internet. ........
Leather working is obviously the "love of your life". Skill like yours in any craft is becoming more and more uncommon. Please keep it up and keep writing about your historical researches.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 05:37 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guero
Just to confirm a few things in Red's pasting above. I wrote the monograph referenced in his posting. It was published several years ago by the Institute of Texas Cultures and was well received at the time. Unfortunately, it was on their website and there had to be room for some other materials and it disappeared into the cloud, or wherever things go about a year after i's original publication.
I am currently working on a book about Tom expanding the original publication by using his personal papers. There is no publication date at this point although negotiations with the publisher began yesterday. I hope to go beyond the newspaper accounts and generally accepted sources to look at this enigmatic figure. I am hoping for publication perhaps in January but it is difficult to say with publishers. Watch for it if you have interest in Threepersons
Jim Coffey
|
Look for Jim's forthcoming book, he is a superb writer whose style of storytelling is very compelling :-).
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 07:16 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 141
Likes: 711
Liked 991 Times in 93 Posts
|
|
Wonderfully executed and researched!
__________________
Mike 'Doc' Barranti
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 07:19 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 104,950
Liked 22,296 Times in 4,529 Posts
|
|
Jim and Red... Is this the article that you are referring to? It has apparently been copied onto another web site before it disappeared from the first one??
Tom Threepersons A tale of two Indians - Family, Friends, Firearms
Heck, when it comes to Tom Threpersons, even the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is getting in on the act: Tom Threepersons | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives !!!!
Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
Last edited by les.b; 07-21-2017 at 07:28 PM.
Reason: Add a couple of links
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 07:42 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guero
Just to confirm a few things in Red's pasting above. I wrote the monograph referenced in his posting.
I am currently working on a book about Tom expanding the original publication by using his personal papers.
Jim Coffey
|
Now that's a book I'd definitely be interested in buying and reading. I'd definitely put my name on a waiting list for it.
I wish you luck with your publisher negotiations.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 07:48 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
|
I went to that link and started reading it, but my eyes began to water and go cross eyed.
Damn, that's hard to read with no paragraph breaks. That's the bad thing about when someone cuts and pastes a story or essay onto another website...it often makes the paragraph breaks vanish.
I guess if I want to read it from that site, I'll have to copy it and paste it into Word and put in the paragraph breaks myself.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 10:35 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
I went to that link and started reading it, but my eyes began to water and go cross eyed.
Damn, that's hard to read with no paragraph breaks. That's the bad thing about when someone cuts and pastes a story or essay onto another website...it often makes the paragraph breaks vanish.
I guess if I want to read it from that site, I'll have to copy it and paste it into Word and put in the paragraph breaks myself.
|
Exactly what I had to do :-). My formatted version, which I won't share here because it's Jim's work, has his name prominently emblazoned across the top of it. He will have updated it significantly since it was written circa 2005, because, for example, we DO now know what happened to Susie Threepersons, Tom's first wife; and we DO know that the Blood Three Persons really was in the NWMP; and heaps more.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 10:40 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
|
The BATFE is the only agency to acknowledge Tom's service with them; that one was originally written in 2009 and is an excellent short version that leaves out the myths and sticks to the facts (the article it refers to, by Marlyn Rosson, is heavy on the myths so credit to ATF for ignoring them). Of course Tom worked for Treasury vs. what we call the ATF today and then only for a few months. He dealt plenty with drugs and alcohol smuggling trade in his time with El Paso P.D., and with Customs, and with the Sheriff's office. But in total it all lasted ony 7 years, 1920-1927.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-21-2017, 10:46 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 104,950
Liked 22,296 Times in 4,529 Posts
|
|
Red:
Even though it's hard to read, and needs updating and formatting, and I'm reading on an iPad on top of that...Jim has a way with words, and I've been reading for awhile and then going back to give my eyes a rest. I can hardly wait til the revised version comes out!! He has a way of making the past come to life, and I'll be itching to read his update...and your book also, when it arrives!!
This is fascinating stuff, and being able to tie the leather goods, especially the holsters and gun belts together with the firearms and stories of the men of the times is great stuff. Keep up the good work.
Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-23-2017, 08:20 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 102
Likes: 49
Liked 148 Times in 40 Posts
|
|
Red - always love reading your posts about the history of the industry. Great read and insight as always.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2017, 05:29 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
Tom's own holster was different in several styling details to the 'Threepersons Style' of today. And it seems that the Horseshoe Prize (winning for getting closest) would go to J.M. Bucheimer. This particular one is so close that it even sports the owner's initials on the backside, scratched there as on Tom's holster! And also has a leg tiedown at the muzzle as did Tom's. And some empty holes on both that were once fitted with retainer thongs. Add that it's for an SAA (it's a 6-1/2" so m/b for a Ruger not a Colt) and is a dark brown with a Mexican carved finish, and they are non-identical twins:
2017-10-18 06.50.04.jpg 2017-10-18 06.51.40.jpg
2 3p post restore (5).jpg 2 3p post restore (6).jpg
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
Last edited by rednichols; 10-22-2017 at 05:33 AM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2017, 09:55 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
I can also add some factual updates to my bit o' whimsy about Bucheimer having already 'replicated' Tom's personal holster (less the thick welts pressing hard up against the frame).
Turns out that Tom Three Persons, Blood Indian of Alberta and British subject, did find out about 'our' Tom (who was Cherokee) having expropriated his identity. An article that appeared in a local 1928 newspaper was produced for him and he was mighty unhappy with being called a 'killer' -- because the article was about 'our' Tom who reputedly had killed many men, and yet it seemed to be about him (the Blood) including the Calgary Stampede win in 1912 that he himself was known for.
It seems that either Cunningham or Arnold had one of the many pieces about 'our' Tom published, in, of all places, England in a little-known magazine called The Wide World Magazine. I've not sighted a copy of the original magazine article (still looking), but I do have the newspaper article: it is titled "Tom Threepersons a Two Gun Man?" and published in Alberta, CN.
Upon seeing the article, the Blood Tom stated he had been vilified and swore to sue; understandably Indian ranchers didn't find it beneficial to be a gunman. This was Feb 1928, and Tom left his LEO career forever within a month of that. Coincidence?
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
11-01-2017, 07:00 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 1,858
Liked 7,749 Times in 2,127 Posts
|
|
The letter that I requested from Colt about the SAA that The Autry Museum holds as Tom Threepersons, arrived today; and holds no surprises. Shipped in 1905 to a distributor in Chicago with 4-3/4" barrel in 44/40 and blue finish. The pistol is nickel now but it was quite common for the SAAs to be nickelled by the dealer, before or after sale; and for the grips to be changed, too.
Tom's revolver has a solid form of the adjustable military iron sight found on the Colt flattop, and the only pic we have of the pistol suggests that the pistol was nickelled after the sight was installed. Theories that the pistol was equipped with a longer barrel that was cut down, because the sight is mounted flush with the muzzle, are incorrect.
Tom was a bit fussy about the sights on his SAAs, because his other SAA also has modified sights: the rear sight has been 'clearanced' by actually cutting deeply into the topstrap just in front of the rear sight, tapering back up to full thickness near the cylinder face; and the original front sight has been made smaller/lower. He took a file to other parts of the pistol, too; and a penknife to the mouth of his holster to lower it.
P.S. I swiped my 'Variegated' title for my Hoyt thread, from the article about this man with whom at least one period newspaper article compared Tom Threepersons ("Exploits of Tom Threepersons Rival Experiences of Diamond Dick Himself", OREN ARNOLD) in which Tom's mythical companion named White first appears (and who himself may have been given his name by Tom's real life ATF partner):
"The Variegated Life of Norfolk's Diamond Dick", L.B. Finch. Nebraska History 84 (2003). Dr. Richard Tanner b. 27 Nov 1869 d. 02 Jul 1943.
Can be found online via Google.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
Last edited by rednichols; 11-10-2017 at 08:45 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
11-11-2017, 04:14 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,652 Times in 6,014 Posts
|
|
Red's Tom Threepersons First Series #1 prototype that he gave to me
deserves a better photo than I posted in #9 above, so here is another
try.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Last edited by crazyphil; 11-11-2017 at 04:18 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|