Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:05 AM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default How to counterfeit a Brill holster.

Lots of copies of the Brill out there, but none are exact replicas. That's because it's not a matter of giving an artist's rendition of a photo the maker saw once on the 'net, to replicate a Brill. Not least because there were two Brill 'eras'.

These pics show how to accurately reproduce a late-model (that is, post 1932 as imagined by its original creator, N.J. Rabensburg). To build an early-model Brill (that is, prior to 1932) one would need a different set of instructions.

Step one: buy a late-model Brill for at least a 4" DA revolver; a short-barrelled DA revolver (they're a very different design); a 4-3/4" SAA; and a 1911 (Rangers used the 38 Super auto version).

Step two: 'explode' them into what are called 'provenance patterns' from the leather pieces; so-called because they are your evidence (even for your own review) that they are original: the cardboard is glued to the leather, then cut to match without changes. This one is a Sessums (leather on the other side):

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-sessums-angle-32-degsjpg-1-jpg

Step three: you'll need a pattern-driven chain stitch machine for the muzzle lip, chain stitch visible on the backside (see Step four image).

Step four: you'll need a thin vegetable tanned leather for the half or full lining, with a hard finish. Kangaroo is ideal, very likely Rabensburg used goatskin in 1 mm thickness.

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-da-16-jpg

Step five: note the comments on the images that follow.

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-da-14-jpg

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-da-15-jpg

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-da-17-jpg

Note: perfectly acceptable to use no logo on the cuff; or initials. Using the Brill stamp, though, is called 'passing off': sometimes illegal, always wrong.

Note 2: everyone has spotted the obvious 'trademark' methodology used for Brill basket stamping on both early and late Brills; no need to explain it here. There are no known 'plain' genuine Brills (although there were 6 other companies that made them under their own name, including Myres, and included plain finish).
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).

Last edited by rednichols; 10-10-2017 at 01:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-10-2017, 03:50 AM
brucev brucev is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Peach State! GA!!!
Posts: 4,239
Likes: 4,375
Liked 2,573 Times in 1,138 Posts
Default

My cow! Have one or two nice holsters. This is beyond anything I've ever seen except in pictures. Sometimes pictures go beyond 1,000 words. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
__________________
<><
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:02 AM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 7,030
Liked 14,845 Times in 3,120 Posts
Default

Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.




* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Last edited by keith44spl; 10-10-2017 at 07:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:22 AM
wheelgun610's Avatar
wheelgun610 wheelgun610 is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grinder's Switch, TN
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 325
Liked 439 Times in 242 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
....* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.
You and I need to get better acquainted....

Mark
__________________
S&W Forum Member #721
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:23 PM
iPac's Avatar
iPac iPac is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 712
Likes: 805
Liked 772 Times in 328 Posts
Default

I would love to make holsters, but don't have the equipment needed. I'm completely self sufficient in all aspects of my gun hobby, except holster making, so it has crossed my mind. Although, I have modified existing holsters to better suit my needs and make them better, half way there. Plus, I would be able to make it exactly how I want it.

Maybe one day. Thanks for the interesting instructions and tips though.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 10-10-2017, 02:09 PM
richardw's Avatar
richardw richardw is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SE PA
Posts: 452
Likes: 148
Liked 1,062 Times in 298 Posts
Default

In this case the word counterfeit does not apply. Remember counterfeiting is a crime when it comes to money of propert that is protected by Trademark or Copyright law. In the case of a 1932 item no,longer inproduction those protections have expired. So, there was no counterfitting. The holster was legally recreated. Words matter
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:14 PM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sneads Ferry NC
Posts: 180
Likes: 131
Liked 166 Times in 65 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
In this case the word counterfeit does not apply. Remember counterfeiting is a crime when it comes to money of propert that is protected by Trademark or Copyright law. In the case of a 1932 item no,longer inproduction those protections have expired. So, there was no counterfitting. The holster was legally recreated. Words matter
While I think you are correct in your description of counterfeiting an item that is protected by Trademarks or Copyrights. I think Fraud would be the proper word it you make an item and try to pass it off a genuine product but it is only a copy. I might be wrong since I am not a lawyer or prosecutor.

Last edited by jhnttrpp; 10-10-2017 at 04:15 PM. Reason: punctuation
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:17 PM
richardw's Avatar
richardw richardw is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SE PA
Posts: 452
Likes: 148
Liked 1,062 Times in 298 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
While I think you are correct in your description of counterfeiting an item that is protected by Trademarks or Copyrights I think Fraud would be the proper word it you make an item and try to pass it off a genuine product but it is only a copy. I might be wrong since I am not a lawyer or prosecutor.
I think you are correct. Attempting to pass off a reproduction as an original is fraud.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2017, 05:34 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.



* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.
I wondered when I made up my title. My use of the word 'counterfeit' was not intended as a shot at those of you that copy others' innovations (although this is). I chose the word because 'copying' is an inaccurate process; so is 'cloning'; whereas if one wanted to accurately reproduce (everyone claims to do this, not least El Paso Saddlery) a late-model Brill, one would have to know all these details to even begin to fool an expert. Not that anyone would admit to trying to fool an expert; though to an amateur they'd be happy to say that they could. One would be amazed at the b.s. I've had pitched at me by makers when they don't know who I am (notably the current chap at Alessi -- face to face!).

Not least, too, that the "accurate reproducer" (happier word?) would have to know (a) that there were two eras AND (b) the difference in their construction.

So: my post and my word was not intended as a 'shot' at anyone. But the reaction suggests that 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. That said, I really like your blend of Brill and Safariland (a Brilland? A Safari-Brill? I call mine a Brill-Persons because it looks like a Brill but is fitted out internally to behave like a Threepersons).

But, again, some are being too sensitive and it appears that I've hit a sore spot. My post was only to revel in the details that make up a real Brill of two different eras. I think, just for fun, I won't post up the second series and see if the experts can work it out on their own :-).

And: everyone admits to copying 'the greats' because these men (there are no women) are dead and can't object. But no one admits to copying the living giants because they can sue; instead they claim they were 'inspired' and 'made improvements' aka minor changes. This was the essence of my now-closed lawsuit against the current Milt Sparks company. Make up your own damned designs, is my motto :-). See, now one of MY sore spots has been hit.
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).

Last edited by rednichols; 10-10-2017 at 05:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 10-10-2017, 05:42 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
I think you are correct. Attempting to pass off a reproduction as an original is fraud.
Say, I meant to mention 'product configuration trademarks'. I protect all my designs in this way. To grasp what a configuration trademark is, think of the 1911. If Colt had employed this protection (too bloody late now) there would be no Ruger or S&W clones of the 1911. I'd explain these trademarks but it might hit a nerve in someone; so y'all can look it up on, say, Wikipedia.

All intellectual property is truly protectable in only two ways, at least in USA (and again, my post about Brill was not intended to go that direction; but since it's been mentioned . . .) because every copyist will protest (that's obvious, I saw it once in '54, looks just like a girl's barette, etc.) and it all devolves to money.

Safariland's power in this regard, and Bianchi's back in the day, emanated from more than having a patent that might or might not be relevant; it was from having the market power to intimidate and overwhelm a small player. Conversely, Roy Baker had a patent but was powerless to enforce it: the market designed around it while not having to fight off expensive lawsuits.
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:00 PM
clang444 clang444 is offline
US Veteran
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 236
Liked 1,122 Times in 362 Posts
Default

I'm sorry but when i hear "brill" all i can think is "a little dab will do yah".
__________________
My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:43 PM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 7,030
Liked 14,845 Times in 3,120 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols View Post
I wondered when I made up my title. My use of the word 'counterfeit' was not intended as a shot at those of you that copy others' innovations (although this is). I chose the word because 'copying' is an inaccurate process; so is 'cloning'; whereas if one wanted to accurately reproduce (everyone claims to do this, not least El Paso Saddlery) a late-model Brill, one would have to know all these details to even begin to fool an expert. Not that anyone would admit to trying to fool an expert; though to an amateur they'd be happy to say that they could. One would be amazed at the b.s. I've had pitched at me by makers when they don't know who I am (notably the current chap at Alessi -- face to face!).

Not least, too, that the "accurate reproducer" (happier word?) would have to know (a) that there were two eras AND (b) the difference in their construction.

So: my post and my word was not intended as a 'shot' at anyone. But the reaction suggests that 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. That said, I really like your blend of Brill and Safariland (a Brilland? A Safari-Brill? I call mine a Brill-Persons because it looks like a Brill but is fitted out internally to behave like a Threepersons).

But, again, some are being too sensitive and it appears that I've hit a sore spot. My post was only to revel in the details that make up a real Brill of two different eras. I think, just for fun, I won't post up the second series and see if the experts can work it out on their own :-).

And: everyone admits to copying 'the greats' because these men (there are no women) are dead and can't object. But no one admits to copying the living giants because they can sue; instead they claim they were 'inspired' and 'made improvements' aka minor changes. This was the essence of my now-closed lawsuit against the current Milt Sparks company. Make up your own damned designs, is my motto :-). See, now one of MY sore spots has been hit.
My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.



.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Last edited by keith44spl; 10-10-2017 at 06:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:19 PM
clang444 clang444 is offline
US Veteran
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 236
Liked 1,122 Times in 362 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.



.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.
Very nice. I'd take one of them over a Brill creem any day.
__________________
My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:52 AM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.



.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.
We could easily have a vigorous discussion about all of that but I'd rather not! I'll just be glad to get back to how a Brill copy can be made better (mine is neither authentic or for sale.)
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:37 AM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 7,030
Liked 14,845 Times in 3,120 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols View Post
We could easily have a vigorous discussion about all of that but I'd rather not! I'll just be glad to get back to how a Brill copy can be made better (mine is neither authentic or for sale.)
Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:57 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 6,267
Liked 6,179 Times in 1,611 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave
I am fortunate enough to have one coming. I will post photos
when it gets here. You 2 guys are both two of the best living
leather artists. I have specimens of both your endeavors, and
they are top notch.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:51 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave
Dave, I only chose the title for reasons of whimsy. It was meant to result in two posts, to point out the differences between early and late Brills; and how there are never any variants of even the smallest nature in the originals within those eras. This allows us to date them in an era when our resource material misdirects us into thinking that August began making the Brill holster in the 19th century. Which he didn't; it's very likely that he personally never made any of them at all. And that led to the erroneous claim in a major auction of Butch Cassidy's Colt SAA, that the Brill with it belonged to Butch; which it couldn't have.

That is the historical point. The contemporary point was that modern copies are superficial and there is a lot of science in the originals that is left out of them. Brills are not a 'style' so much as an artefact. All good fun.
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:57 AM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,539
Likes: 7,030
Liked 14,845 Times in 3,120 Posts
Default

Red,
I've been ponderin' this here Brill design and thinkin on
a few improvement to the original design for a short spell now.

From a basic engineering stand point, what with modern adhesives and
nylon threads and better quality tanned leathers to choose from, an
improved version would be interesting.

I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.
So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:02 AM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Suspended
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 7,409
Likes: 12,208
Liked 16,011 Times in 4,251 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.

So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave
I, for one, will look forward to seeing it! Been an admirer of your work since I joined this forum.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:18 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Red,
I've been ponderin' this here Brill design and thinkin on
a few improvement to the original design for a short spell now.

From a basic engineering stand point, what with modern adhesives and
nylon threads and better quality tanned leathers to choose from, an
improved version would be interesting.

I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.
So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave
You know there will a test, right? 1-5 gold stars and only 5 stars will be a passing grade :-).
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:40 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
I am fortunate enough to have one coming. I will post photos
when it gets here. You 2 guys are both two of the best living
leather artists. I have specimens of both your endeavors, and
they are top notch.
Phil is quite the diplomat. Maybe one of us should be insulted :-).

Here's my Brill Persons, which is not a replica as I don't use any of N.J. Rabensurg's 'markers'. Instead it's a 20th century update like a car that looks like a '56 'Vette but with a 2017 'Vette engine under the bonnet.

Pics tell the tale but some words are in order. Improvements include:

1. the cuff has been shrunk into place while wet, with forced-air heat, to squeeze the welt area.
2. the cuff is screw removable. This allows the upper edges to be trimmed for a wider belt (this one is fitted up for 1-1/2" width).
3. inside is a full-length sight protector for both front and rear sights. It's extruded elastomer and adds to the 'threepersons effect' for retention, too. A single central stitchline, twice in same holes, attaches it; which allows the free edges to adjust to suit the pistol.
4. inside is a rubber spacer held in place with a massive screw post that is not screw-adjustable. This does more than provide a positive stop for any trigger guard including hooked; it creates a 'threepersons effect' by providing friction against the dust cover, with or without rail.
5. the welt is a first for me (not saying I invented it; I'm saying it's the first time I've thought of doing it): wetted, bent into shape, dried; then glued into the seam. 16 ounces.
6. the fender is a separate panel that is stitched to form the top of the belt loop. Far better cutting economy; what were the Brills thinking?
7. sculpted to clear the knuckle of the second finger, in two places on the holster pocket; the fender is still full width because the belt pulls it out of the way.
8. fully lined with kangaroo leather in veg tanned with a waterproof finish. The fender, too; tho the construction would enable it to be unlined. I believe Brills had half-lined pockets and fully lined fenders to prevent rubbing the trousers with the flesh side (otherwise, why bother to line the holster only on one side; couldn't be to protect only one side of the cylinder).
9. basket weave pattern intentionally is contemporary rather than Brill style.
10. teenut construction, all stainless screws etc., for servicing.

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-persons-1-jpg

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-persons-2-jpg

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-persons-4-jpg

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.-brill-persons-5-jpg

Brill-Persons holsters are not available for purchase; I make them only as gifts for friends and Phil got the first one :-). Another friend who is not on the forum will get the second, in brown, also for the auto. Reckon I'll do the SAA after that.
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).

Last edited by rednichols; 10-12-2017 at 08:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:18 PM
Eddie Southgate's Avatar
Eddie Southgate Eddie Southgate is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Southern Middle Tennessee
Posts: 244
Likes: 350
Liked 164 Times in 86 Posts
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.




* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.

Dave , that is beyond beautiful . I need one , do you have any openings for New close friends ?

Eddie

PS : Edited because Stunning actually describes it better !
__________________
Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Last edited by Eddie Southgate; 10-12-2017 at 09:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 10-13-2017, 09:14 AM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 6,267
Liked 6,179 Times in 1,611 Posts
Default

If Rabensburg made the first one wasn't Brill copying Rabensburg?
Wasn't Rabensburg, in a way, copying Captain Hughes (instructions)?
Everyone copies someone. Copying is the highest form of flattery.
The more you are copied the more you are flattered. (complimented)
I'm going to call all of them "Sunday Holsters". Without Captain Hughes
there wouldn't be any of them.

BTW I never intended to insult anyone. "two of the best" suggests
there are others. I hope I didn't insult any of them.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 10-13-2017, 04:11 PM
rednichols's Avatar
rednichols rednichols is offline
Member
How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster. How to counterfeit a Brill holster.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 737
Likes: 520
Liked 1,804 Times in 561 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
If Rabensburg made the first one wasn't Brill copying Rabensburg?
Wasn't Rabensburg, in a way, copying Captain Hughes (instructions)?
Everyone copies someone. Copying is the highest form of flattery.
The more you are copied the more you are flattered. (complimented)
I'm going to call all of them "Sunday Holsters". Without Captain Hughes
there wouldn't be any of them.

BTW I never intended to insult anyone. "two of the best" suggests
there are others. I hope I didn't insult any of them.
Of course you didn't insult anyone Phil; it's simply not in you :-).

Everyone doesn't copy someone, though, unless one subscribes to the ridiculous notion that 'there are only so many ways to bend leather' -- meaning if it's folded at the front, or folded at the back, etc., one has copied someone who did that before.

A Brill is a Threepersons with a cuff 'round it. But the Brill was first. Yet a Threepersons is simple and functional and survived to the present day in the arsenals of lawmen, and the Brill did not.

All patents are, literally, "on the improvement" per the USPTO. That organisation recognises that there is 'nothing new under the sun'. Yet was the fax machine a copy of something? The Apple phone? The internet? The polio vaccine because vaccines existed already? Jet fighters because they had two wings?

So, although there were holsters made in two pieces before Neale's Safariland with SightTrack, it had never been done precisely in that way. Ditto with my SightStrip and I had to take Gould & Goodrich to court (I won) to prove the point. For us inventors, the world is full of ordinary people who will argue about these things rather than simply, go their own way :-).
__________________
Red Nichols
Holstorian (tm).
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brill Holster boykinlp Gun Leather & Carry Gear 33 09-28-2017 02:09 AM
New Brill style holster for L Frame/Python/ Ruger GP100 Wyatt Burp Gun Leather & Carry Gear 4 06-08-2015 10:51 AM
BRILL HOLSTER OR OTHER LEATHER WORK marylynn WANTED to Buy 0 09-06-2013 06:32 AM
Found a decent old Brill holster in....... lawandorder Gun Leather & Carry Gear 8 07-06-2012 05:11 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)