I picked up and excellent condition black Bianchi 5B from the 1966 - 1969 timeframe for my 1966 Chiefs Special and I am really loving this vintage holster. The holster is molded nicely to the revolver and still provides snug retention even without the thumstrap snapped.

I am wondering if Red could give us a brief history lesson on Bianchi’s development and what/who influenced the design. The minimalist design with slight FBI cant and retro exposed trigger really works well for carrying the Chiefs Special OWB. I know that the exposed trigger is frowned upon nowadays but the thumbstrap retention guards against am AD by preventing the hammer from coming back in the event the trigger did get pressure. Thanks in advance Red for any background you can offer.

The 5B is technically before my time but I know the story anyway. Its distinction from the later 5BH is that the belt loop of the 5B is folded out of the holster body as Gaylord and others did it; the 5BH uses a separate panel stitched top and bottom as Safariland and others did it.

I suppose the real story of the 5B is the story of the thumbsnap. John has claimed early and often to have invented the thumb snap, but the patent for it was filed by Mr. Bucheimer and the lesser-known Mr. Kippen (who worked for several companies and apprenticed at Heiser) before John took up holsters in 1958 after leaving the Army.

John's version appeared not in his earliest 1963 Protector Brand catalogue but in his 1966 Bianchi Holster catalogue. Ten years is a long time in patent history; where one man beating another by a single day is decisive.

Revolvers were king in those days, so there was a pause before the 19 appeared for the autos; first as the Nelson M&P patterned after Paris Theodore's well-publicised range that used the Eastern School of construction, then as the No. 19 with a welt inside (incorrectly called a Threepersons) that used the Western School.

I'll put up some pics. Gotta run.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

a bucheimer predated bianchi thumbsnap (2).jpg

a bucheimer thumbsnap predated bianchi (3).jpg

The downside to the earliest thumb snaps, is that the fold over the hammer is perpendicular to the strap itself, rather than to the fold of the holster body. Safariland got it right from the get-go, thanks for which go to Gordon Davis who did the production engineering for all of Neale's first line launched 1967. But John did not, and the consequence is that the snapped strap could and did push off the hammer spur itself. This meant that if there were fixed sights involved, the revolver could be drawn regardless; and regardless of the sights, that the hammer could be cocked with the elbow, or worse -- fired in the holster. I corrected this flaw when I was given charge of its successor, the 5BH.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Back around or after 2008 I read an article in a Guns & Ammo Magazine dated January 1973. Title of the article was THE "NARC" GUNS DOPE PEDDLERS FEAR! In part the article stated that federal narcotic agent academy graduates are given a Bianchi thumb-break holster and a Bianchi belt to carry their issue S&W Model 10 with 2" barrel.

I asked John Bianchi which holster it was, and he responded as follows:"Model 5B High Ride, Thumbsnap style-Has been in continuous production for 40 years, currently in Bianchi Int. 08' catalog"

So, I got on Optics Planet and bought one. But by that time it was the 5BH. "Imported" from Mexico. Thanks for the history Red.

Here is a photo with my S&W Model 10 with 2" barrel on board.

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In Omnia Paratus

I just got a 5B for a Detective Special off fleabay for $14.99 and shipping . Fits my 30-1 just as well . I like it . It is marked Bianchi only and Detective Special 5B , no star on the snap . Any idea how old it might be ?

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Always post up pics, front and back, for the best-reasoned answer from any/all of us :-). "Bianchi Only" can mean very, very, very early (before "Safari" which was Safari Ltd, or 1963) or it can mean kinda early ("Holster" or "Monrovia" ground off and replaced by the size marking, circa 1972 after the shift to Temecula).

1 (1).JPG

4.JPG

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Thanks for that, LuckyB, I was able to locate an original copy from your description :-). The 5B of that era is very different from the 5BH that followed, much less one from Mexico (don't get me wrong, I worked in Mexico and the folk there are very capable of world-class quality if one shows them what it is; which the anecdotal evidence is that Bianchi did not).

5B (2).JPG

bianchi conceal (9).jpg

The guiding principle of the 5BH was to give the higher ride that "everyone is asking for" when instead it was to emulate what Safariland had been doing for a decade.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Here you go Red . Do these help ?

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	Bianchi5BColtDS.jpg (49.8 KB, 169 views)

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

I have a couple of the 5BHL, I think, which means lined. Basketweave stamped, too. . I wore one on a Bianchi River Belt for over 20 years, and it was very satisfactory.

I have another, plain dark tan, for a three-inch barreled Chiefs Special. I used it with a M-36-1. It does not accept the full-lug barrel of my M-60-4. I asked Bianchi if they could provide one for the M-60-4. I was told to just stretch the normal model. I have never since bought a new Bianchi holster. I also don't think the work and the leather are as they were when the brand made its name.

I got El Paso to make me a Model 2 specifically to accept the M-60-4.

As you requested by PM, Eddie:

I would be pretty safe saying 'circa 1970'. Little details like the thumb tab reinforcement, and the mark, could force it either way before/after (that is, it would've been easy to be dead accurate 50 years ago, but difficult to be more accurate today). The stitching of the welt is more my time so I would suggest more likely soon after, than before, 1970.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Does the H in 5BH refer to the "High Ride"?

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In Omnia Paratus

I don't have a 5B, but I do love the Bianchi 8 Shadow that I carry my M60-0 Chiefs Special in.

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Stay protected my friends.

This is my 5BH for the S&W 44 that I recently found. It still needs a gun

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Thanks Red . Knew I could count on you .

Eddie

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Red and Eddie,

While stationed in Alaska, I bought a new model Colt DS in early 1972
along with a 5BH to carry it in.
The thumb tab had no reinforcement on mine.

The price for pistol, holster and a 50 round box of S&W 110gr. "+P" SJHP was $99.00,
a lot of money for a young "Buck Sergeant" back then.

Hope this helps with the establishment of a date.


Edit: The more I read and see pictures, I think mine was a 5B, not a 5BH. I do miss the DS and that holster.
Shouldn't have sold them.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Do you still own it?

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Stay protected my friends.

I'm 64 now ...... these have been my standard outside waistband field holster (along with the 111 Cyclone crossdraw) since the mid 70s............... must have them for everything from 2 & 4inch" J-frames to 6" L frames and 4" N-frames.

Loved the good old days when you could find "used" holsters;that had never really been used, in LGSs for pennies on the dollar..... would buy these models for guns I didn't even own...... yet.

I too prefer the older used models to the Mexico made..... too heavily boned for my taste.

Thanks Red!

No, I sold the gun and holster in 1998 to a young man
who was willing to pay enough to get me to part with it.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Don't mind me, just adding to a excellent thread regarding the Bianchi 5B. This one came in the mail today, I believe it's from the late 60's. Fits my 1975 M60 like a glove and is quite comfortable. Very tight on my belt but I think that will change once I wear it awhile.

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Your dating is very good; Bianchi Holster was actually the name of the company founded 1966 when the Safari Ltd. venture became Safariland under Perkins instead. The #5B itself was introduced that year. These stamps had been changed to Bianchi Monrovia by 1970 and then the Monrovia ground off in 1972 when the company shifted to Temecula.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I suspect this might be one of John's earliest ads.

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In Omnia Paratus

I just had to look up 509 Hacienda Dr, Monrovia, CA.

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509hacienda.jpg (107.0 KB, 101 views)

Looks like he may have been making them on the kitchen
table in those early days.

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In Omnia Paratus

Well done! I heard tales about the garage being the workshop then. Bear in mind that JB was a full-time soldier until '58, a full-time copper until '65; even Safari Ltd. was a part-time venture for him. And he used various company names during the part time era including Protector Brand. So his career as a full-time Bianchi Holster company operator began in '66.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

If you notice in the 1st pic, the users finger is fully on the trigger while the gun is about to be drawn. Not sure if that would be kosher for duty issue today???

I thought garage too, but don't see an attached garage in the
picture of the house in Monrovia. Maybe around back?

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In Omnia Paratus

Here's an ad when he was dba Safari Ltd. & offering a 1965 catalog.

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SAM_1151.jpg (107.8 KB, 75 views)

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In Omnia Paratus

Yeah, there's a garage back there. You have to admire a guy with an idea and the passion to make it happen.

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OK, here’s mine.
Better late than than never?
But I’m posting behind a garage picture!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

It does seem that the Perkins were the money men and Safari Ltd. was actually Neale's; which is why today's Safariland claims founding in 1964 (the year that Safari Ltd. appeared). Yes indeed there was a 1965 Safari Ltd. catalog but it was Neale's operation by then.

Here is a sort of advertising timeline that shows the shift; you'll note the product range stays the same but the name of the company changes; so from Safari Ltd with JB and Neale, then to Safari Ltd with JB's range but with only Neale, then to Safariland with a new range and JB with a new company and the old range:

1965 safari ltd. becomes safariland.jpg

1965 safariland, safari ltd images wout jb.jpg

1966 safariland w sst.jpg

1966 bianchi holsters.JPG

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

The '65 Safari Ltd. brochure, which is in the style that Safariland subsequently adopted when the name was changed (the '64 company was an actual catalog). Those who know the old literature will recognise this from having seen Safariland's subsequent product brochures, which were a vertical format to fit in a letter envelope:

1965 safari ltd (1).jpg

1965 safari ltd (3).jpg

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I have read that Bianchi's ads from the 1970s and early 80s, were put on
posters and called histographs. Now they are collectible Western art,
but I haven't found any for sale. I remember one of my favorites was
"Bianchi's not sitting on his....ah donkey." (Slightly edited for compliance).

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In Omnia Paratus

As usual, kinda right. The histographs were purpose-built posters that were not used in print ads; and the print ads themselves were not sold including the 'donkey' ad. I recall there being 5 histographs and they were sold via the catalog. The rule that JB was the only one who could be in all of them. I'm in one that also was used as the cover of his 2010 book.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Phil,
Back years ago, I was setting up at some of Wally Beinfeld's shows....
John's tables would be purty close to ours, he'd have a goodly amount of
western regalia on display and we would visit for a spell at each show.

I seem to recall John telling me he had built a few in the kitchen.

Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

We must take all these folks' startup legends as 'kinda true'. Neale claims to have started in his garage -- when if he did, it was in JB's garage! So, 'kinda true' but not really the truth.

I'm not going from memory; these claims are sorted out in a variety of interviews over their lifetimes. Living players especially don't acknowledge the living, so neither of these two give each other much credit in print.

JB's 1966 catalog claims 10 years in business; but he was not only in the Army but in bloody Alaska then. Tex started his company in the late 1960s a bit after JB. Both Heiser and Myres were still apprentices when they claim their company founding (and didn't make holsters then). Arvo, Baker; Sparks whose range was a child of the 70s not the 60s, none of these people's legends are accurate about who did what and when :-).

I ran across a well-meaning post from a customer (on another forum) that was entirely wrong including that I had moved to Australia to live with my son. I can't even figure out what piece of data he misconstrued to get that one. And it is not correct of course.

Don't even get me started on Tom Threepersons, or El Paso Saddlery.

Any time an industry figure tells you a tale, just nod your head and smile :-). Me included (but bear in mind that I do have a big database to back it up).

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I would be interested in RED's take on the dating of this older Bianchi holster for a Colt Detective Special. It is stamped BIANCHI HOLSTER inside of the stitching and then CDF1 also. I understand the CD for Colt Detective, but not the F1.

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Lee Erickson

The CDF is/was 'California Department of Forestry' and their specification was for the Bianchi 5B with its muzzle cut off to become 'open' and shorter. Made many of these in my Monrovia days (1970ish) but Bianchi Holster-marked holsters are considered late 1960s. I've captured several of these in my image files.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

So, late 60's. Interesting... Thanks.

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Lee Erickson

Dang! Reading this thread made me realize I have a 5B for 2 inch J frame. I'll have to dig it out , and check the markings.