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Old 08-26-2018, 09:44 PM
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Default Anyone carry in a Safariland ALS?

I have two Safariland ALS holsters, both for a 1911. One is for a 5 inch barrel and the other is for the Commander length. Now I have a big problem, as my only 1911 is the S&W Commander-length Performance Center model with "lightening cuts" in the slide. These hang up on the retention feature so I guess another standard E Series Commander is in my future.

I am curious though, does anyone carry in one of these?
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:58 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
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I open carry my M&P 9mm in a SafariLand ALS. Never any problems holstering or unholstering.

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Old 08-26-2018, 11:06 PM
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How did 'drawing' become 'un-holstering'? Ever. And 'holstering' become 're-holstering'? It's 'holstering' and 'drawing'.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
I open carry my M&P 9mm in a SafariLand ALS. Never any problems holsering or unholstering.
Does your M&P have a slide like this? The locking system grabs the left side openings in the slide. I knew I should have gotten the standard model!

Cool that you use an ALS though.....do you carry openly? I sometimes open carry, which is why I've decided to go with ALS or at least a thumb break for all belt-carried sidearms.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runs With Gun View Post
Does your M&P have a slide like this? The locking system grabs the left side openings in the slide. I knew I should have gotten the standard model!

Cool that you use an ALS though.....do you carry openly? I sometimes open carry, which is why I've decided to go with ALS or at least a thumb break for all belt-carried sidearms.
No my slide is not even close to that... lol

Texas is a open carry state but to make myself more clear no, normally I don't "open carry" but rather I carry outside the waist with a tucked in Tee shirt underneath a unbuttoned short sleeve shirt over as a cover garment. I was told by the local PD that if one chooses to open carry that they would like to see people use at least a level II holster. I took it one extra step further and purchased the optional locking tab that goes over the thumb release essentially making it a level III. The local PD down here encourages civilian licensed carry. In fact it was one of them that told me about the safariland ALS and even got me a decent discount at their online store...

And yes, I do practice DRAWING the pistol from the holster, taking a couple shots at target then HOLSTERING the pistol and starting the drill again. I pretty much mastered the DRAW.

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Old 08-27-2018, 02:17 PM
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I didn't expect your M&P to have a slide like mine.

I found last night that a few lengths of electrical tape over the left slide cuts solved the problem, at least for a few draws.

Since when does any police force have a say in how rights are exercised? *Very nice of them to help you get a discount though. Whenever I point out a negative about someone I like to put in a positive---I feel "balanced honesty" is the way to go.

I get what they are saying though and that's why I am giving the ALS a go....other than two other guys I know, everyone I see open carrying does it without any retention features at all and I usually cringe when I see it.

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Old 08-27-2018, 08:20 PM
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The bulk is an unwanted trade off, but I often use the 6377 for plainclothes. My P226R is currently in a 6390 with 1 1/2” belt loop.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:25 AM
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When the OP first put this up I had no idea which holster was being spoken of; that is, I know the design well but didn't know it was being discussed here because there is more than one ALS. But now that I see the picture from TxShooter I have to say . . .

. . . that this article roundly condemns the holster under discussion, and in so doing only confirms what I knew after news reports brought it to my awareness, and calls it 'big, unreliable until you modify it and almost dangerous when you get the tactical light version.' with, for example, any/all striker pistols.

Gear Review Safariland 6378 ALS Retention Holster - The Truth About Guns

So many accidents have occurred with this holster already, both in USA and Australia, that it is unfathomable that Safariland's people ever let this one get out of the stable; real holsters for police officers are 'safety equipment' and this one does not add safety, it removes it (not only access to the trigger but note the discussion in the article about the thumb safety). It's as if the company now makes 'stuff' vs. 'holsters'.
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Old 08-28-2018, 09:14 AM
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I wouldn’t rate TTAG as reputable firearms media.
The 6360 (ALS plus rotating SLS hood) is likely the most popular uniform holster nationwide now. There have been instances of NDs from the wide mouth on the lightbearing versions, but that’s the nature of the beast. As long as gunlights are made wider than the trigger guard, the holster mouth has to be made to accommodate it.
A light on a working pistol is worth the trade off. Perhaps the more compact lights like the TLR-7 will remedy the situation; in the meantime the minor added risk is worth the reward.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxShooter View Post
I wouldn’t rate TTAG as reputable firearms media.
The 6360 (ALS plus rotating SLS hood) is likely the most popular uniform holster nationwide now. There have been instances of NDs from the wide mouth on the lightbearing versions, but that’s the nature of the beast. As long as gunlights are made wider than the trigger guard, the holster mouth has to be made to accommodate it.
A light on a working pistol is worth the trade off. Perhaps the more compact lights like the TLR-7 will remedy the situation; in the meantime the minor added risk is worth the reward.
We'll have to agree to disagree. A reputable holster maker doesn't permit its products to be distributed when unsafe to unsuspecting users. As evidence, they get sued, and Safariland has HEAPS of lawsuits (I have several lists from the 'net). Just because we know NOW what happens, never absolved them of doing their job THEN to either solve it (that is, prevent it), or not offer it. Ditto the gunmakers; society requires them to address safety issues before distribution. If a gun with a light is unsafe in a maker's holster, then they become complicit in the danger. That's not only how societies work, it's also morality.
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:35 AM
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Well guys, I have found that several layers of electrical tape put over the left side "lightening cuts" of the weapon (1911 SC Roundbutt Performance Center) prevent the ALS from hanging up during the draw.

I have actually become so confident of the holster and the draw that I have begun to open carry it a bit where possible. I have found that I no longer disengage the safety during the draw. *At first I disengaged it about 50 percent of the time during the draw.

*That 50 percent may continue with pants, tonight I've been practicing drawing wearing shorts, maybe the clothing design plays a role.

I may even get that locking bar for this holster....forget what it's called. It goes over the release lever to prevent a draw at all but I'm fearful I'd leave it on at the worst time.
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runs With Gun View Post
Well guys, I have found that several layers of electrical tape put over the left side "lightening cuts" of the weapon (1911 SC Roundbutt Performance Center) prevent the ALS from hanging up during the draw.

I have actually become so confident of the holster and the draw that I have begun to open carry it a bit where possible. I have found that I no longer disengage the safety during the draw. *At first I disengaged it about 50 percent of the time during the draw.

*That 50 percent may continue with pants, tonight I've been practicing drawing wearing shorts, maybe the clothing design plays a role.

I may even get that locking bar for this holster....forget what it's called. It goes over the release lever to prevent a draw at all but I'm fearful I'd leave it on at the worst time.
Geez, throw it away and get a good design you can trust :-). I do not mean that as a dig at you; but at the design.
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:49 PM
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You actually "throw things away?" What? LOL

At some point I will get a standard SC model or SC slide/barrel/bushing to go onto the PC frame since tape can only be so reliable.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:43 PM
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sticks out too far for anything that isn't concealed

great holster for range/open carry
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:11 PM
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I OC one with my SIG P220 and Walther P99AS.

Good holsters, but stick out too far for CCW. They're more of a duty style holster that can be worn on a normal sized belt IMHO.
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:17 PM
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It was a bit cooler today so I put on an unbuttoned "Untuckit-style" dress shirt over the ALS and 1911 PC. Worked like a charm.

The only thing I don't like about this holster is the "high ride" on the belt but much lower and the muzzle of the holster would show. I guess that's a trade off when carrying a full-sized weapon like a 1911 Commander.

I can definitely state that the ALS 6378 made for a Kimber Pro Carry works very well for a S&W 1911 Round Butt PC. The muzzle just comes out a 1/16 of an inch or so past the end of the holster.

Four layers of electrical tape on the left "lightening cuts" prevents the ALS from locking up on those. Just the left side cuts need be covered.
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:38 AM
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I carried the PC in the 6378 ALS again yesterday, this time with an hour's long car drive. NO PROBLEMS.

Four layers of electrical tape is holding up perfectly to the holster's retention lock.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:41 PM
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I've carried a Glock 19 with a TLR-1 in this holster for years. No issues other than some rattle. Maybe Glocks fit different or TTAG got a bum one, no gaps like that on mine anywhere.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:50 PM
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I wore a 6360 and 7360 on my duty belt for a Glock and M&P, great holsters - level III retention but quick to draw.

I had a wise guy come up to me and state he bets he can get my gun out. I told him I bet I can stab you in the eye before you can. That ended that.

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Old 09-25-2018, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runs With Gun View Post
I carried the PC in the 6378 ALS again yesterday, this time with an hour's long car drive. NO PROBLEMS.

Four layers of electrical tape is holding up perfectly to the holster's retention lock.
Try using that peel & stick mole skin that you should be able to find in a crafts store. Wipe the surfaces down really good with rubbing alcohol. It should hold up pretty well.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:14 PM
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I have more than a few ALS holsters. It's a simple process to pull the one screw that holds the entire ALS mechanism in place. They work without the retention feature just fine.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:03 PM
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Received my 6280 today and two markings on the backside make me think it was made in '06.

I wouldn't be so brazen as to call it a holster; because it's just a plastic box with a hasp over one end. The pistol (G20, I have to use an aluminum dummy here) moves up and down 1/2" (measured) in it. Can't think of any gunleather holster where that would be acceptable.

It's also 3-1/2" thick from hip contact to outer shell! And the gap created at the trigger is certainly big enough to access the trigger on a Glock -- that actually has no manual safety.

I would call this particular Safariland design either "what were they thinking?" or "unsafe at any speed" (if you remember the Corvair book) or "monstro" (if you remember the black whale of Pinocchio). I keep photos of these designs in my file that is called the former (whatweretheythinking).
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:45 PM
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Well, duty holsters tend to place the holster away from the body to accommodate the draw. You chose the model with only the hood, should’ve went with the 7360 or 6360, your gun would click in place.
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednichols View Post
Received my 6280 today and two markings on the backside make me think it was made in '06.

I wouldn't be so brazen as to call it a holster; because it's just a plastic box with a hasp over one end. The pistol (G20, I have to use an aluminum dummy here) moves up and down 1/2" (measured) in it. Can't think of any gunleather holster where that would be acceptable.

It's also 3-1/2" thick from hip contact to outer shell! And the gap created at the trigger is certainly big enough to access the trigger on a Glock -- that actually has no manual safety.

I would call this particular Safariland design either "what were they thinking?" or "unsafe at any speed" (if you remember the Corvair book) or "monstro" (if you remember the black whale of Pinocchio). I keep photos of these designs in my file that is called the former (whatweretheythinking).
Offered with respect, the holsters discussion in the original post is for not a 6280, which is a dedicated SLS, a Self Locking System. I believe SLS is a 15 years older design than ALS.
ALS(R) Duty Holsters

Both are Safariland, both can be black, both hang off belts but they are actuated differently by the thumb. I also believe the systems can be combined. In the U.S., Safariland is a market leader in law enforcement retention holster. The line between ALS and SLS gets blurred in their website, but I mostly familiar with ALS in more a concealment use versus uniformed duty use.

Relative to vertical movement is totally different experience than I have had with Glock 19 ALS concealment holsters. I can put a G26 in the G19 and not have a half-inch of movement. Neither raises the trigger access concern either.

There is more movement in the 6378 light-bearing ALS holster but the bigger concern is just the holstering process there. That is a bit of polymer bucket, but again, modern U.S. law enforcement practice is for a weapon mounted light.

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Old 10-05-2018, 07:14 AM
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For me, a holster than can double as concealed carry and open carry is a good quality pancake style holster with thumb break retention. I have a Gould & Goodrich that features a nice forward cant and will accommodate any S&W 39, 59, or 69 Series of pistols, including the DAO versions. Yes, I have to un-do my belt to put it on or take it off, but it is a great all around holster.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:29 AM
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Never seen a safariland holster that wasn't adjustable. Have you tried reading the instructions?
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Old 10-05-2018, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SATX View Post
Well, duty holsters tend to place the holster away from the body to accommodate the draw. You chose the model with only the hood, should’ve went with the 7360 or 6360, your gun would click in place.
Well, I didn't buy it to use it! I knew its weaknesses already from images and reports but wanted to personally evaluate one.

A significant point is being missed, from my acquisition: this problem with the pistols being fired while still in the holster, on Glocks with lights, is well known yet I can still buy a used one: there was no recall.

Safariland dominates the market here, too, for uniformed officers. That the pistol moves up and down in it doesn't mean that I should have bought a different Safariland; it means that Safariland designed this model deficiently.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:52 PM
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Can't tell if serious or not?

YouTube
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:08 PM
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BILL ROGERS IS A FREAKING GENIUS....................
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:16 AM
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I have had a couple of the SLS; I hated them because of my small hands. The hood simply was too hard to rotate reliably. I have a couple SLS; one was actually the level 3 SLS/ALS combo until I took off the hood. I have found them to be good for what they are. They are not concealment holsters and I don't have a light mounted. I knew that there was a problem with the Glocks and the lights years ago, but have not kept current on that as it doesn't matter much to me now. In addition, if someone is even trying to mess with your holster enough to crank off a round that way, you need to pay more attention and break their hand or fingers when they try.

I am not a fan of open carry, for many reasons, but if I did have some circumstance in which it was sound, I would almost certainly be using one of my old duty rigs. Under no condition would I use/own/allow the Serpa; the index finger release is only one of the well documented problems with it, and there are a lot of agencies and trainers that prohibit them, for well established reasons. While TTAG might be right in his critique of the holster in question, it is actually not designed for what he is doing; Safariland is serious about doing a lot of presentation training reps before using these holsters, and support for the Serpa is what we lawyers call impeachment evidence.
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  #31  
Old 10-08-2018, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bugmanz View Post
BILL ROGERS IS A FREAKING GENIUS....................
Who could argue with that? :-) One could do research:

Calif. Boy Fires Officer's Holstered Pistol - News - POLICE Magazine

Child fires officer's holstered gun at Minn. school

Investigation underway after officer’s gun goes off in holster | CTV News Winnipeg

Police officer on duty accidentally shoots himself in the leg while trying to holster his gun

There are heaps more of these reports. In one, an officer sat next to another and the keys on his belt fell into his seatmate's ALS type holster; when the seatmate stood up the pistol fired. I don't try to keep track of all of 'em (but do have a very long list of Safariland lawsuits).
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  #32  
Old 10-14-2018, 08:46 PM
seldon14 seldon14 is offline
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Originally Posted by rednichols View Post
Who could argue with that? :-) One could do research:

Calif. Boy Fires Officer's Holstered Pistol - News - POLICE Magazine

Child fires officer's holstered gun at Minn. school

Investigation underway after officer’s gun goes off in holster | CTV News Winnipeg

Police officer on duty accidentally shoots himself in the leg while trying to holster his gun

There are heaps more of these reports. In one, an officer sat next to another and the keys on his belt fell into his seatmate's ALS type holster; when the seatmate stood up the pistol fired. I don't try to keep track of all of 'em (but do have a very long list of Safariland lawsuits).
None of those mention the holster brand or make. One is an ND outside the holster.
  #33  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:07 PM
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None of those mention the holster brand or make. One is an ND outside the holster.
Sure they do.

First item: states it is light bearing; know any other company that makes holster for them? Reader comments, because this is all so well-known:

"Dom @ 9/3/2013 3:34 PM
Prolly a safariland. A child's finger is small enough to get in between the holster and the gun to press the trigger. Ive tried it with an unloaded 23 in a 6378 with my pinky. Almost got it

Dom @ 9/3/2013 3:38 PM
On the lightbearing safariland holsters there is a significant gap that allows a pinky n or small childs finger to get to the trigger"


Second item, see above (know any other Level 3 maker, the term is Safariland's term):

"The holster was a department-approved level 3 security holster, with trigger guard, that typically cannot be touched or fired in the holster, but the child's small finger was able to reach inside."
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Last edited by rednichols; 10-14-2018 at 09:15 PM.
  #34  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:27 PM
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Third item: images show Safariland ALS. Safariland absolutely OWNS the uniform market in USA -- and Canada. The video shows ALS on all the officers. Video states it was the second incident.

Anyone carry in a Safariland ALS?-1-jpg

Fourth item: images show Safariland ALS. Safariland also absolutely OWNS the uniform market in Australia; I see their holsters on every officer in these States --

Anyone carry in a Safariland ALS?-4-jpg

Here's another, from a forum, just to twist the knife:

"I can and did pull trigger while gun is in Safariland ALS . . . ***", Steaz. Pistol-forum.com, 07 Oct 2016. 6378 ALS Concealment Paddle Holster (from a spreadsheet, you'll have to track it down yourself online).

And do these searches:

"Safariland docket". Google terms search returns multiple listings of Safariland product-related lawsuits on 2 pages. 31 Mar 2018

"Safariland lawsuits". Google terms search returns multiple listings of Safariland product-related lawsuits on 8 pages. 02 Apr 2018.

Bill is on record what his goal was/is for being in the holster business:

"Forrest Gump's Got Nothing on Bill Rogers". K. Wood, Recoil (Magazine), Vol. 13 Jul/Aug 2014. 'The real money was in duty gear'. .
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2018, 12:50 AM
seldon14 seldon14 is offline
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Blackhawk makes level 3 light bearing holsters.

Video wouldn't load for me but I'll take your word on it showing Al's holsters.

Those photos are both stock/file photos and don't necessarily represent the holsters from the incident.

Link 3 only contains one holster related discharge.

The 4th incident isn't holster related.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting these stories, or just didn't read them.
  #36  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:35 PM
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I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting these stories, or just didn't read them.
Right back you.
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:46 PM
seldon14 seldon14 is offline
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Originally Posted by rednichols View Post
Right back you.
If any of my above post is in correct I'm perfectly open to evidence of such.

You posted 4 links as evidence of the ALS holster being flawed. Only one shows the ALS in use by the department for sure.

The others are using photos from a stock image library.

Two of the examples where discharges of the gun outside the holster.

You implied no one but Safariland made a level 3 light bearing duty holster. Seems like a holstorian should know that.

Odds are good that they where using ALS holsters as they account for so many duty holsters, but presenting these as "proof" of a flaw with the holster is intellectual dishonesty.
  #38  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:38 PM
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I don’t see anyone being convinced here, time to move on.
Regards,
John Witty
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