Also picked up this Jay-Pee service holster; excellent condition. appears unused. No marking other than the brand.What can the board tell me about these?

If that's the old NYPD service holster, a friend who retired from NYPD had nothing good to say about them at all. (He worked in high action areas and was in several OIS.) As a collector item, it looks pretty nice.

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NHI, 10-8.

If that’s an NYPD holster, it was never issued. A year on patrol and they were pretty well worn. The NYPD did use Jay Pee holsters, but at least since the 70’s the holster was an open top clamshell design with no strap. I still have mine. It worked well enough.

Is this what I have seen referred to as a "Jordan" style holster?

Almost everyone made a holster kinda like the "Jordan" style.

Charles Askins and Sam Myres designed the Border Patrol holster
in the 1930s. It is shown at the left below.

Bill Jordan made some improvements on the Askins design and had
his made by C. H.Werner in Alpine, Texas. Then Bill went off to serve
as a Marine in WWII. When he returned, his holster was well worn and
beat up, so he went into Sam Myres shop in El Paso and had a replacement
made. It became the Jordan Border Patrol. Second from left photo.

I guess Myres sold a ton of them because every lawman wanted a
holster "just like Bill Jordans".

Jordan was recalled to the Marines in 1950 for the Korean War.
While he was away, Sam Myres passed away. Many were making
copies of the Jordan Border Patrol, and some were not very good
quality, so Bill got a trademark.

He gave Don Hume the right to his trademark. Hume's Jordan
Border Patrol is shown 3rd from left.

Look at the trigger guard. That is the easy way to tell the difference
between the earlier Askins Border Patrol and the later Jordan Border
Patrol.

You can click on the image once or twice to enlarge the photo.

Attached Images

	SAM_0847.jpg (84.7 KB, 132 views)
	SAM_0848.jpg (94.3 KB, 117 views)
	SAM_0837.jpg (97.7 KB, 131 views)

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In Omnia Paratus

"Jay Pee" holster were a Florida based company. Mostly manufactured leather goods for the LEO and Private Security market. The company products were priced to appeal to city and private budgets.

While NYPD issue was a Jay Pee holster, they were plain with no straps or buckles or pen and pencil holders. They had a thick piece of leather inside that caught the recoil shield as a retention devise. You had to stick you thumb in and twist to get your revolver out of the holster. If I remember they were really inexpensive at the NYPD Equipment Section.

How embarrassing. Jaypee is a trademark of Courtlandt Boot Jack Co. in Flushing . . . New York, not Florida.

https://www.manta.com/c/mmb5x4b/cour...ot-jack-co-inc

J.P. are the initials of one John Parlante, whose son (?) formed Cobra in the '70s.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Any idea what this would fit? A 65-3 fits but the snap comes up about 1/4" short; 4" barrel is fine
Thanks

Used to have an NYPD style Jay-Pee. Charming holster but could never get the gun out very quick. Once it’s in there it’s really in there but I’d hate to rely on getting the gun out in a hurry during a shooting. That holster and the cartridge loops were both retained by the NYPD for years.

Jay-Pee was a relatively large maker of holsters and accessories, primarily for the law enforcement and private security sectors. Moderate prices and aggressive marketing for department contracts, as well as retail outlets and police supply stores (there used to be such places!).

I've seen many of their products over the years. I would describe them as utilitarian at best. Generally good heavy leather. Like many other makers of the era, holster sizing was "one size fits several", not much effort at forming (basically a folded and stitched piece of leather).

Somewhere around here I have a Jay-Pee duty-style holster that came to me with a Luger pistol. The elderly WW2 veteran I purchased the Luger from was a retired NY cop who actually carried his captured German pistol on duty for a number of years.

My agency used to qualify on the NYPD outdoor range in Rodman's Neck, NY (part of the Bronx). The range staff kept several Jay Pee holsters on display that were torn apart during forcible disarming attempts. At the time, NYPD instructors told us that one in five LEOs killed by a handgun were killed with their own or their partner's gun.

This isn't entirely the holster manufacturer's fault as some officers never upgraded or maintained their equipment and I remember seeing shoddy-looking officers whose duty gear looked like it was about to fall off them. These were the officers who knew they would never be in a gunfight.

Here's the one in the holster collection here. It appears to be of heavy construction but is light and flimsy when hefted. Had a nice fellow once describe them as cardboard wrapped in black-died chicken hide and that is very descriptive of the impression the holster gives. All that thumb and twist business is a bust for an effective draw and looks liked it'd get a lawman killed to me.

Chic Gaylord had some less than good comments about the NYC issue holsters on page 86 of his Handgunner's Guide.
"The Police Department of the City of New York has a regulation holster that is about the worst I have ever seen. Usually made of shoddy split leather and lined with canvas that holds sufficient moisture to insure the gun's rusting, this holster seems to have been constructed to be replaced every year. Consisting of innumerable pieces of leather stitched together with cheap cotton thread, it has a breaking point below that of grocery string. When brand new, a police officer has to struggle with two hands to draw the gun. Anybody else with the desire to can get it simply by grabbing the butt and ripping it out of the holster. After it's been out in a couple of rainstorms, the holster comes sufficiently unstitched so that anybody can easily lift the gun out of the holster. I know of one officer on post who heard somebody come up behind him - and turned to stare down the muzzle of his own gun in the hands of a grinning psycho. Police officers who have S&W revolvers frequently find when they have drawn their gun from this holster that the cylinder latch has opened and they have to pick their ammo up off the street before they can do any shooting at all. Police officers have been killed or crippled for life because of the malfunctioning of this holster."

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Gun Safety is no accident.

Did Chic ever use one? The older Jay Pee holsters had some different stiching that kind of sucked, I have heard. Particulalrly the swivel holsters. They switched the stitching out and it was much better. I carried Model 64 in a Jay Pee holster, and the range staff at Rodman's Neck always had stuff on the wall. The Safariland 9MM holsters, too. But I never saw or heard of a Jay Pee holster failing.

In the event of a gun grab, we were taught to flip the holster upspide down as you fought the perp off. The leather tag inside locked onto the cylinder pretty well. The swivel version was much preferred, although I was never authorized. I had the non-swivel version, which I and most other new rookies promptly switched out for the swivel version. Bosses never really cared. The swivel was much better when riding in a vehicle.

I still have both of mine. State of the art? Hell, no. But functional for sure. I recall ONE guy who carried his .38 in some sort of Safariland Thumb snap retention holster. Again, nobody cared. I qualified with him once. He had his Jay Pee on for inspection, then threw it back in his locker when he was done. I didn't have mine for long. Less than 2 years before the 9MM took over. But I surely stood in the rain and snow with one. Cylinder never opened and the gun came out every time.

I teach a high school law enforcement class now. I bring in my old duty belt and use a Model 10 plastic red gun. Ask one of the kids to lift my gun out. Never been done yet. Some have gotten close upon looking in there to figure it out. But never in the time I would be smashing their face in if it was a real street encounter. Sure, the secret would get out on the street. Just like it did for every other retention holster there is.

When I was in the army in 1961 one of my Sgts. was a NYC street gang kid and would tell us about having one or two kids getting the Police officer to chase in to an alley and the rest would trip up the officer jumping on him and take his gun and drop it in a sewer and scatter in all directions leaving the officer to have to explain to his superiors what happened to his gun.

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Gun Safety is no accident.

I'm sure. Street kids always trying to get over. When the 9MM was adopted, some street gangs let it be known that taking a cop's 9MM was an automatic "in" to the gang. And in the situation you describe, the latest whiz-bang level 76 retention holster wouldn't have mattered.

But I also vividly remember ONE beat cop clearing a whole block or a park with just one warning and a glare. Anybody who didn't move got their just lesson. It was a war that went back and forth.

But the cop who had his gun taken, and I can assure you, that former (and probably current) Army Sgt. thug who bragged about taking a cop's gun was exaggerating. Taking a cop's gun or disrespecting him in any way back in the 60's and 70's meant a swift reprisal. And that was bad for business and general community relations. The most minor infraction would be severely dealt with if that was a common occurrence. Nobody got a break until the guilty parties were produced. Surely sent a message. The offenders would be offered up by the community, both decent and criminal.

And either way, the cop who lost his gun went on to retire with a pension. The local miscreant more than likely wound up dead in a gutter or just otherwise living a ****** life. Who's the winner there?

Lots of savvy cops carry second guns, and at least back in the day, most NYC cops did according to my friend. Doing what that Sgt. claimed would be a good way to have the second gun put into use.

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NHI, 10-8.

Gaylord's answer to the gang mob jumping the officer was snub nosed revolver in his ankle holster. He wrote that many New York City Police Officers wore that holster and a revolver on duty as a back up.

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Gun Safety is no accident.