I am looking at getting a custom leather holster. The holster maker explained to me that 90% of his customers buy his $40 (gun specific) which is soft leather. His $100 holster he says is a thicker hide like kydex. Can you explain the differences in terms of carry retention and overall benefits of one vs other? It will be carried iwb. The gun in question is a m&p 2.0 4.25" with an inforce apl-c light.

You're talking apples and oranges. Leather is leather, the chemically tanned skin of an animal. Kydex is a rigid thermo-plastic that is formed around a pattern or original firearm. It is quite rigid and not subject to "break-in" as it is used.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Unless you plan on lubing your gun each use in the holster stay clear of chrome tanned leather(usually soft inexpensive holsters). Chrome tanned can be used if hot wax treated but it does leave the leather hard like kydex. I use chrome tanned leather but only after treating with hot wax.

Be careful even in veg tanned leather, they are less corrosive but still corrosive.

So should i not go with leather?

Ignoring the old wive's tales you're getting about chrome-tanned leather (what do you think even Kydex Safariland holsters are lined withi?!): a firm leather holster that has been purpose-moulded to your pistol will protect its finish best. A soft leather one will rub on all the high places. It's another old wive's tale that moulding holsters was for retention -- it was created to reduce wear (can't believe I had to explain that to Tony at Sparks once).

Kydex? Well, Bill Rogers made his fortune since the 1970s persuading buyers that they needed the (chrome tanned) suede inside it to prevent the hard Kydex from wearing on the finish. So unless he was wrong . . ..

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

HI NTG17, KYDEX IS NOT A HIDE, OR AN ANIMAL PRODECT. IT IS A THERMOPLASTIC, ACRYLIC, POLYVINYL MATERIAL.....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I have five kydex holsters currently. Looking to try all leather. Even have two hybrid holsters (not a fan). Was just curious how leather could be like kydex (as it was explained to me by the maker).

There is “soft” leather that you would need to hold open with your off hand to reholster your M & P, and there is “hard” leather that will abrade its finish off fairly quickly if that is a concern to you. If I had to opt for one or the other and the more expensive option is tightly molded to the gun I would opt for that one. And plan on it being not 100% perfect for you and throwing it in the holster box, or buying a second one if it is . Good luck in your decision.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I have a suspicion that the holster maker might be trying to explain the differences in the weight/thickness of the leather by using the terms soft & hard.

Typical holster leather-at least in past times- was 9-10 oz leather. That's weight for a certain dimension of a chunk of leather (square foot?). That comes from a certain part of the critter, is fairly thick and also quite expensive. These days, quite a few folks buy holsters like they buy socks-as low a price as possible.

As some folks have noted, you want a holster that's fairly stiff and will hold it's shape without the gun in it. It also has to be stiff enough to allow you to re-holster with one hand.

There are indeed several different types of leather created by several processes.

The earliest method of curing hides for leather utilized feces and urine. After extended soaking the hide was worked into the intended shape or product, then cured over a smoky fire, with resulted in very durable products capable of serving as armor against arrows and other weapons of the time.

In medieval times towns with tanneries sent out crews with carts to pick up containers of "night soil" from residents, to be used in leather making. Probably the earliest documented "neighborhood recycling" efforts.

In some areas (notably Central and South America and parts of Asia) the use of feces and urine (human or animal) is still common in leather making. A considerable amount of that production is imported to the US and Canada, sometimes reprocessed by chrome-tanning processes for use as upholstery or clothing, but also showing up "as made" in retail hobby shops as a product that mimics many qualities of vegetable-tanned leather and can be used for making holsters, belts, handbags, and other accessories.

Native Americans produced leather by the brain-tanning process, resulting in very soft and durable leather for many purposes. The brain of the animal was processed into a water-based solution, and each animal's brain was said to be sufficient for tanning its own hide. A difficult, labor intensive, time consuming process that is still in limited use, with brain-tanned hides (bison, elk, deer, etc) commanding very high market prices.

Chrome-tanning refers to a process utilizing chemical salts produced from heavy metals, producing a soft and pliable leather suitable for upholstery and clothing applications. Residual chemical salts within the leather can be very corrosive. Some of the first "superfund" EPA clean-up sites were old tanneries, highly polluted with heavy metals.

Vegetable-tanning refers to the process of using emulsions of tannin from plants to cure and stabilize the hides. Many plants contain tannins, such as tea and the bark of shrubs and trees. Perhaps the most common source of tannins is the bark of oak trees, commonly referred to as "oak tanning". The leather produced is capable of being wet-molded to shape, and is very durable in long-term use. "As made" veg-tanned hides are suitable for holsters, belts, shoes, and many other uses. Residual chemical contents are generally not a concern.

The primary source of hides for leather making is from the meat packing industry. Cattle hides are prevalent for this use, with frequent arguments over the relative properties of cow hide, steer (castrated male) hide, bull hide, buffalo hide and so forth, usually revolving around the levels of testosterone within the animal's body during life.

Sheep, ostriches, reptiles, snakes, deer, elk, antelope, elephants, kangaroos, and other creatures can be the source of hides for tanning, with as many potential uses as there are creatures.

Regardless of the source or tanning methods, firearms (and other metal objects) should never be stored in leather holsters or cases for extended times. All leather is hygroscopic in nature, readily absorbing and retaining moisture from the atmosphere, perspiration, and other sources, which can present a potential for corrosion. Some leathers (particularly chrome-tanned leathers) present another potential, as residual chemical salts can go into solution with accumulated moisture and cause serious corrosion from long-term exposure to ferrous metals and firearm finishes.

The best leather holsters are made of vegetable-tanned hides. Even with the best, I recommend removing the firearm after each day of use, wiping the firearm down with an oily rag, and storing the holster separate of the firearm, preferably in an area providing air flow to permit evaporation of any accumulated moisture.

End of tutorial.

Us Lefties kind of buy a holster when we see one we like.
Like I bought this soft leather S Texas or maybe Mexico holster over 50 years ago.
The N Miss Dealer I bought it from made yearly buying trips down that way.
I have carried 19s and 66s In it for a while.
I don’t have a Kydex handgun holster.
I associate them with Black Autos.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

You can harden leather. Leather armor was boiled and dried near a fire to make it really hard. Leather is moistened to make it moldable and to make it take a stamped impression. Really hot water softens it but then it dries hard. Drying in a hot box or low oven makes it harder. Use a lined holster if worried about excessive wear. The lining can be a light smooth leather with the smooth side pressing on the gun. Less friction, less wear.
A metal or plastic strip can be glued into the edge of the holster between the layers to make it remain open for reholstering with an IWB holster, but a well molded quality leather will hold its molded shape pretty well.
A holster made from cheap leather will not last, and quality leather gets pricy but is worth the extra price.

Gee, that's good; demonstrates a full grasp of the science involved.

For lobo, who already knows this but hasn't mentioned it yet: veg leather is the real 'hater' of steel. This image took just 30 minutes to produce, using a steel hardware piece and wet vegetable leather:

steel on wet leather.jpg

The steel's other side (dunno where that pic has gone off to) is thoroughly rusted/pitted. It's a chemical reaction between the two materials, no urine or feces involved. The veg leather has actually hardened where it is blackened, into a kind of charring that has extended into the leather itself.

Now; chrome leather has huge advantages and they are why they have been used in gunleather for a very long time: 1. cheaper 2. thinner 3. water-resistant 4. scratch resistant. As for No. 4, my giant sofa that my 100 pound Bull Arab breed jumps onto, is unmarked to this day by her claws. For No. 3, it's why it has been used since earliest times in shoulder harnesses by Heiser and the like (then it was considered 'chaparejo' leather; chaps). No. 2: veg cowhide simply can't be made very thin for many reasons, one economic and the other strength. No. 1: the difference is cost is astronomical not least because all the biggies, including/especially Safariland in their Kydex 'stuff', use 'splits'; which are the leftovers from splitting the grained leather into a thinner layer.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

So stick with kydex...?

That is not what has been indicated here. The point being made is that there are inherent differences among the available choices, and with some foreknowledge the customer can make intelligent decisions best suited to his own needs. There is no such thing as the "perfect holster", any more than there is such a thing as the "perfect gun" for every user, situation, circumstances, or budget.

A bit of knowledge is all that is being conveyed, not a pronouncement that one thing is better than any other thing.

Those who like Kydex holsters should purchase Kydex holsters, knowing that Kydex can be very rough on handgun finishes, and that Kydex is known to break occasionally in use.

Those who prefer leather holsters should acquaint themselves with the various types of leather in common use, and what can be expected under all conditions of use.

I enjoy the look of leather as much as I enjoy a buck 110. Sure I have Chris Reeve knives, spyderco, benchmade, etc. But the nostalgia of the 110 appeals to me as well. I think for now I will stick to kydex. The maker does however line all the holsters, if that makes a difference.

one thing to consider with kydex, it has no give. Not a huge deal in a OWB holster, big deal in a IWB holster. Leather has "some" give...a good holster will keep it's shape, and in general for IWB use I would suggest something leather. The other thing with kydex, it tends to be slippery. So unless the maker uses a very good securement system for it, it will likely move around on you.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

I have a leather holster, made by Wes Daems (7X Leather in Ennis, Montana), built for my customized Ruger Mark III 5.5-inch Heavy Barrel 22LR automatic pistol. Since it no longer fits its packing box - unless partially disassembled - I have stored it, unfired, in its holster for more than five years. The effect on the pistol when I give it an inspection is nothing. Holstered pistol is stored in my safe. The only thing I can consider preventive maintenance is the warm-to-touch heating element that is always ON near the bottom of the safe. That's it. No corrosion preventive, no oil, no nothing.

From that experience I have concluded that any leather holster from an experienced, best-quality leather worker will allow safe long-term storage of any currently made stainless steel handgun. Dropping beneath my qualifiers, holster storage becomes a "listen to what the maker tells you to do."

^^Thumbs UP! +100

Nice education in leather! And I am posting here solely so I can find it again if I need a refresher in this subject! Gracias!

I've been running leather OWB 'pancake' style, pistol specific, molded holsters for years, on all different types/finishes of handguns. Some had thicker (baseball mitt type) leather, and some more supple leather (like on a loafer shoe). However, all of them were 'quality' leather holsters. Never had any issues with any of them. I do apply some degree of preventative maintenance measures, though. Like wiping down my pistol every so often with G96 (or equivalent), and also spraying a light coat of G96 inside the holster. Works for me.....


'Thick(er)' Leather


'Thinner' Leather

Yeah, right. Next thing you're going to tell me is that no animals are killed in the "manufacture" of naugahyde.

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Formerly Model520Fan

Well, it's kinda like buying gems......

If you don't know jewels, at least know your jeweler.

Same apply's to holster makers.....
The best are back-ordered purty good.

I have found those that blow their own horn the loudest are
in need of work in general....beware of the braggarts.

A good cobbler knows his trade and can guide you to a quality product.

A good leather holster should do you proud.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Down in Mexico, they have been installing Naugahyde Car interiors for quite a while now.
The Naughas along the border have completely disappeared!
The last confirmed sighting was in 1978.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Yeah,
What with the shortage of Naughas and such....

Some makers have turned in days of late to 'Corinthian Leather' harvested from
the extincted Cordoba....


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I went hunting them Naughas way back in the 1970s. They are very
elusive, but I got a couple of them. Used the hide to upholster my
patio stools. Still have the stools. The Naugha's hides wear like iron.

Did any of you all ever hunt snipes? I only did once, but I didn't
catch any.

The Corinthian leather was imported all the way from New Jersey,
but maybe gun control caused the extinction of them Corinthians?
It was purty hard to hunt them without a gun. A few of them can
still be found in junk yards around the country.

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In Omnia Paratus