Milwaukee Saddlery Company

StrawHat · #1 02-05-2020, 10:10 PM

This may be a run of the mill item for you holster guys but it is a first for me.

What can you tell me about it?

It came wrapped around a S&W 1917.

Thank you.

Kevin

turnerriver · #2 02-07-2020, 08:29 AM

Milwaukee Saddlery Company or MILSCO was a US military contractor for leather goods during WW II and after. They made M 1916 .45 auto holsters, 1917 revolver holsters and machete scabbards that I know of. They made the holsters for USPO model 1917 revolvers as well. There are people with a lot more knowledge about US equipment than I have so corrections and amplifications may follow.
Regards,
turnerriver

StrawHat · #3 02-07-2020, 08:53 AM

Thank you for that info.

Here are two more photos. Wish I knew how to research this fellow.

edited to add. I have contacted the Fairbury City Hall and will get in touch with local Veterans groups to see what I can find out about the Sgt.

Kevin

usmc2427765 · #4 02-08-2020, 12:37 AM

That could turn into a great history search. Please keep the forum advised of results.

StrawHat · #5 02-16-2020, 09:15 AM

Is there a forum for items such as this old army holster?

Kevin

StrawHat · #6 02-17-2020, 07:24 AM

Not a lot of information on this holster. But I did find this.

“... THE M4 HOLSTER WAS DESIGNED TO CARRY THE COLT & SMITH & WESSON .45 CALIBER REVOLVERS WHICH WERE BOTH STILL BEING ISSUED & USED IN LIMITED QUANTITIES DURING WWII. SIMILAR TO THE ( M2 ) 1917 HOLSTER, THE DIFFERENCE BEING THAT THE ( M2 ) WAS DESIGNED WITH A BOTTOM PLUG, RING & TIE DOWN THONG, & THIS ( M4 ) WAS DESIGNED ONLY WITH A SLENDER CLOSED, STITCHED BOTTOM WITH BRASS EYELIT DRAIN HOLE, BY WHICH AN ELK LEATHER LEG THONG COULD BE THREADED THRU & TIED OFF FOR SECURING TO THE WEARER’S LEG. AS WITH THE ( M2 ) THIS ( M4 ) WAS DESIGNED TO BE CARRIED “BUTT TO THE REAR” AND WORN ON THE RIGHT HIP. THE ( M4 ) IS CONSTRUCTED OF RUSSET LEATHER CONSISTING OF 4 SEPARATE PARTS, THE BODY, FLAP WITH STUD SECURING HOLE/CATCH, BELT LOOP & WELT, ALL SECURED BY (8) BRASS RIVETS AND HAS THE FRONT BRASS CLOSURE STUD. THE FRONT OF THE ( M4 ) IS EMBOSSED WITH US IN AN OVAL CIRCLE & MAKER STAMPED & DATED ON THE BACK OF THE BELT LOOP BY EACH MANUFACTURER...”

And,

“... SEARS SADDLERY RECEIVED THEIR CONTRACT TO PRODUCED THE M4 HOLSTER IN 1942 & PRODUCED THEM FROM 1942-1944.
SEARS SADDLERY MARKED THEIR HOLSTERS ON THE REAR BELT LOOP WITH – SEARS “ONLY”
MILWAUKEE SADDLERY RECEIVED THEIR CONTRACT TO MANUFACTURE THE ( M4 ) IN 1944 & SUPPOSEDLY PRODUCED THEM FOR 1 YEAR IN 1944 ONLY.
THEY MARKED THEIR HOLSTERS ON THE REAR BELT LOOP WITH - U.S. MILWAUKEE SADDLERY AND THE DATE – 1944 ...”

Kevin

StrawHat · #7 02-17-2020, 07:38 AM

Information on Sgt Frederick is a bit harder to find. I contacted the VFW in his hometown. According to the info they supplied he was born in 1930 and died in 2019. That you makes him too young for WWII but about right for Korea.

Kevin

petemacmahon · #8 02-17-2020, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

Information on Sgt Frederick is a bit harder to find. I contacted the VFW in his hometown. According to the info they supplied he was born in 1930 and died in 2019. That you makes him too young for WWII but about right for Korea.

Kevin

Good work. How about any surviving next of kin? They might like to see this holster.

StrawHat · #9 02-17-2020, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petemacmahon

Good work. How about any surviving next of kin? They might like to see this holster.

The VFW included his obituary. It mentioned three daughters that survived him. I am trying to track them. VFW also gave me contact to his old golfing buddy.

Kevin

StrawHat · #10 02-17-2020, 06:04 PM

Also, who was issued a 1917 during Korea? By then the military had all the 1911s they could use didn’t t they?

Kevin

StrawHat · #11 03-11-2020, 10:15 PM

So far, here is what I have been able to find out about this revolver and holster. It was, at one time, owned by Sgt Warren Frederick. Sgt Frederick was a Korean War veteran who served at an Artillery base in Texas during the Korean War. He passed away in January of 2019. About 5 years earlier, his family decided to move him in to a private apartment. Because of this moves his firearms were sold at auction. I acquired this earlier in 2020. His daughters are not gun savvy and could not provide any information on either revolver or holster. I talked to one of his friends, also a KW veteran who believes Sgt Frederick purchased the holster and revolver during his stay in Texas.

Unfortunately, that is all I have found out and it appears the well has been run dry.

rednichols · #12 03-12-2020, 12:33 AM

How certain are you that you have the 'right' Warren Frederick? I do heaps of research about historical figures and have developed an affection for Ancestry.com, which 'threads' peoples' records in a fashion sort of like Facebook: connects them so that many/most/all their available records are all together on one page as a jumping off point.

My search immediately turned up a Warren Frederick who also was Illinois, in a town an hour from Fairbury; born earlier he was a WWII Marine who lost a brother in North Vietnam.

If you found your man from his serial number then you have the right one, obviously. If you didn't find him that way, then adding other records like parent's names or birthplaces or a wife makes it possible to zero in with 100% accuracy, to rule in/rule out someone. In this way we (turnerriver and I) were able to zero in on 200 individuals who contributed to what we call 'holstory' with complete certainty, while ruling out others with similar names.

The entire story of Tom Threepersons of Texas revolves around him NOT being Tom Three Persons of Alberta. But the two men's records are all mixed up and one needs to know lots about each of them to be certain which one is being recorded and prior to our book the men were thought to be the same person.

StrawHat · #13 03-12-2020, 06:04 AM

The connection between the holster and Sgt Frederick was the ink on the holster. He wrote his address on the holster.

Could it be the WWII fellow? Maybe, but why the wrong town?

Kevin

reccpd101 · #14 03-12-2020, 06:16 AM

WWII vets were often listed in their service record based on the town where they enlisted. That may be the source of confusion about the town.

There may be only one enlistment location in the county or area but lots of towns or communities.

rednichols · #15 03-12-2020, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

The connection between the holster and Sgt Frederick was the ink on the holster. He wrote his address on the holster.

Could it be the WWII fellow? Maybe, but why the wrong town?

Kevin

I'll PM you on this one. The address you mention is only the city and State?

I've found different men -- just one example is John Henry FitzGerald of Colt's -- with the same name and living in the same town at the same time and dying in nearly the same year. All comes down to finding the other differences in records like the census (in FitzGerald's case it shows him working for Colt's and the other chap was a plumber) and draft records. To nail it down I contacted a relative who maintains the Fitzgerald (small 'g') trees on Ancestry and he hooked me up with the way the name is spelled on Findagrave (Fitz Gerald, two words). Even the Wikipedia entry had no death date (I've since added it).