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Old 02-17-2020, 11:32 PM
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Default Best Modern Concealment Holster for a 2-1/2 Inch Model 19-4 Square Butt

A while back I bought a nickel 2-1/2 inch Model 19-4 with a square butt from member ben_g1. It is an unusual configuration, and according to Roy, left the factory as a 6-inch, which was then re-barreled to the shorter length.

It is a great revolver. Accurate and it points naturally in my hand.

I have decided I need it as a carry piece, not as a desk ornament, if only because I have a patient with schizophrenia who has gone off his meds, off the rails, and is doing meth. Bad scene all the way around. He's threatened me more than once, and since I can't evade him, I need to carry for the first time since 1996, when something similar happened.

Welcome to the wonderful world of clinical social work.

I am a better than good shot, and don't have any qualms about dropping the hammer if I have to.

So, what kind of holster? I am 5'8", 235, and I do have a gut at age 72. Usually, I wear a sports jacket and slacks or a suit, and a tie.

What are your recommendations for a concealment holster? Price is not an issue. I hate Kydex, and plastic, so I am leaning towards something in leather, and lined. What do you guys, especially plainclothes LEOs, recommend? IWB, OWB, under the armpit, but it has got to be fast.

Thanks in advance.

I am all ears. The revolver in question is in the foreground of the photo below, and yes, those are carved mother of pearl stocks. They give good purchase, fit my hand well, and don't snag.

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Old 02-18-2020, 01:57 AM
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Holster are remarkably personal things and what you wear and what you do makes a lot of difference, as does the weather. I personally like an OWB pancake worn behind the strong side hip, with a loose shirt covering it. Where I live that is an easy thing to do about ten months a year.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:12 AM
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I'd call it short enough for a horizontal shoulder holster but heavier than you'll like; they're best for the little, aluminium pistols.

On the belt you already have good advice in the pancake, which ideally will have positive caster (rear sight leading the front sight) and be worn at about 4:00 (just behind the trousers seam on all pants and shorts). Or crossdraw with negative caster (front sight leading the rear sight).

The most important decision you will make, is center of gravity. Many, many holsters are designed to take advantage of the longer, 4" and 5" barrels to help hold the pistol vertically; then are cut shorter for 2" and 2-1/2" barrel lengths and the result is a floppy holster; followed by criticism that you haven't got the right belt. Great for belt sales. And forum posts.

Instead, look at where the cylinder will be in relation to your belt line, regardless of the barrel length; obvious in the molding. For automatics a different rule of thumb is handy. Anyway, when the cylinder is co-planar (how about that for a fancy US Patent Office claim word) with the belt then the holster will naturally stay upright; and with a pancake holster it will also not rock forward and back on the belt as long as your belt fills your slots. That will then be the trifecta: ideal c-g, pancake, belt matches slots.

With pancakes it's ideal to use an asymmetrical style -- which is where the outer panel is larger than the inner panel and so the pistol pocket is molded away from the body. The Aker, for example, is actually called a Flatsider for that reason (one of my designs for them) and many/most makers of pancakes do this today. I do believe we can credit Gallagher at Galco for doing this first though his old design looks much like one would have from Seventrees of the same era; had the latter been in business still when the pancake appeared.
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:47 AM
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Wow, Red has a lot of information.

I would vote for an OWB holster also, carrying a reload and most importantly having a very sturdy/thick belt to keep everything in place. You may already know this so disregard if this is the case.
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:49 AM
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I'm partial to Roy Baker Pancake Holsters. They will make your gun disappear and easy to carry.

My first issue handgun in 1979 was a 2.5 inch Model 66 and we were issued the Baker holsters.


These holsters would be contemporary with your gun.

Here are two examples of K frame 2.5 inch holsters.

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Old 02-18-2020, 08:46 AM
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I carry my 66 2 1/2” in a Simply Rugged pancake holster. They can be ordered as IWB and OWB for a small extra fee.
That way you can see what fits your needs best.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:03 AM
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I would echo rednichols' suggestion to look for a holster that carries the cylinder at belt level for stability.

I prefer IWB carry, and have carried a 3" 65 in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II or a VMII-style holster from another maker for 12+ hours/day with comfort and good concealment under an untucked shirt.

For OWB, pancake holsters would be a good option.I've never worn revolvers OWB, so I can't comment from experience. But there are a lot of good makers, both production and custom.

If you think you might have to get physical, then something with a little added retention, like a thumb break, might be worth considering for a little extra security.

A good double-layer gun belt will help. Most people recommend 1.5" belts for the support, but that may be too wide for some slacks and most suit pants. I've been using a 1.25" horsehide belt from The Beltman to carry my PX4 Compact (IWB) and a spare mag (OWB) with good results. It fits in my suits' belt loops. You can also get such belts with internal reinforcement for additional support.

Also consider how you want to carry reloads. Lots of options there, from belt pouches for strips (I have one from Simply Rugged that works well) to speedloader pouches (JOX pouches are my favorite, but they're made from kydex).
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:21 AM
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Galco FL112B sounds like it's right up your alley. It's the Fletch High Ride. Perfect OWB with a jacket on.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:32 AM
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[QUOTE=rednichols;140675837]

The most important decision you will make, is center of gravity. Many, many holsters are designed to take advantage of the longer, 4" and 5" barrels to help hold the pistol vertically; then are cut shorter for 2" and 2-1/2" barrel lengths and the result is a floppy holster; followed by criticism that you haven't got the right belt. Great for belt sales. And forum posts.

Instead, look at where the cylinder will be in relation to your belt line, regardless of the barrel length; obvious in the molding. For automatics a different rule of thumb is handy. Anyway, when the cylinder is co-planar (how about that for a fancy US Patent Office claim word) with the belt then the holster will naturally stay upright; and with a pancake holster it will also not rock forward and back on the belt as long as your belt fills your slots. That will then be the trifecta: ideal c-g, pancake, belt matches slots.

RED . If i understand this correctly. The Baker holsters shown by WCCPHD ,
have the cylinder too high? Curious ,your opinion on the Bucheimer semi shoulder with its metal insert?
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:50 AM
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All good suggestions above. In addition, you might consider a second gun such as a J frame that you could carry in either side front pocket of your slacks or in your coat pocket as a backup and could be accessed quickly in an emergency.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:02 PM
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I will echo the suggestions for a pancake. The original, by Roy Baker the
Pancake Maker, is still the best. If quick is important, look long and hard
and you may find one without a retention strap like mine. It is shown
with my Colt's Agent.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:10 PM
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Since you are wearing a jacket a pancake style possibly a DeSantis JIT. You may be able to find a Bianchi 9R for the 2 1/2 K frame. It is kind of heavy but I wear mine like that frequently and it works well. The advantage of the Bianchi is it is fairly easy to get to with your left hand. 2 guns so you can get to something with either hand could be important. Standing talking to someone with your hand in your pocket appears relaxed. Holding the grip of a small revolver as you are talking is a big advantage. ymmv
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Old 02-18-2020, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCCPHD View Post
I'm partial to Roy Baker Pancake Holsters. They will make your gun disappear and easy to carry.

My first issue handgun in 1979 was a 2.5 inch Model 66 and we were issued the Baker holsters.


These holsters would be contemporary with your gun.

Here are two examples of K frame 2.5 inch holsters.

An excellent example of why there are already the predictable posts about 'get a good gunbelt': these high-riding styles REQUIRE a wide, stiff gunbelt but pancakes with an ideal ride height do NOT. Remember Roy Baker was not a holster expert when he created his holster (sure hope he became one) and the high-ride craze began in the 1970s when all trousers belts were already wide (the hippie era had its impact).

So by contrast, be aware here of the cylinder as a marker for the c-g being low enough, that neither the barrel length nor the belt stiffness, matters in the equation:

Best Modern Concealment Holster for a 2-1/2 Inch Model 19-4 Square Butt-81p-3xexf1l-_sl1500_-1000x1000-jpg

Now you can carry your revolver with ease and the brand doesn't matter any more; nor the belt as long as its width suits the slots. Still, though recommend avoiding the Baker symmetrical pancake because the belt will close the holster when you draw; and an asymmetrical will not.
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:50 PM
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I have a simply rugged owb that I like. For iwb side guard has a good reputation. I also picked up a inexpensive galco iwb with a thumb break that i like much better than i thought.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:56 PM
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I wore one of these with a 2 1/2" 66, back when I was flying quite a bit......

Galco Speed Paddle (SPD 112)




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Old 02-18-2020, 08:50 PM
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I have a Rodeck Leather Holster, pancake style, for both the snub 66 and my M60. My every day carry for a few years now and no complaint. He makes them for under $50, good quality.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:15 PM
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I am very pleased with my Gary C Avenger for my RB 2 1/2” 19 worn at 8 o’clock (my weak side). I, too, have a candy apple silhouette and find my Perry suspenders useful.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
I will echo the suggestions for a pancake. The original, by Roy Baker the
Pancake Maker, is still the best. If quick is important, look long and hard
and you may find one without a retention strap like mine. It is shown
with my Colt's Agent.
One more thing. You mentioned that "it has got to be fast."
So, you don't need to be messing with a retention strap when
you need to get that revolver out of the pancake. I would also
suggest you consider bobbing your hammer, rendering it DAO.
If it has got to be fast, you have no time for single action, and
the hammer could also snag on something.
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:01 AM
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Here’s a thought. If you actually have to deploy your CCW weapon and squeeze the trigger, that gun becomes evidence and will likely spend a bunch of time in police custody. Probably not in a velvet lined locker. I’d rather let them take a $400 gun. Save your nice stuff for show and tell at the barbecue.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:50 PM
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Nothing wrong with a pancake if it suits you. I prefered an IWB a Bianchi 3S pistol pocket carried behind the hip. In your situation, I'd look hard at access when seated in your office chair.

Anything... a coffee table or other object... that can slow an attacker is a good thing. Be prepared to tactically retreat behind a desk to buy time.
Back when I was training, the stakeout squad was prone to applying hidden steel plates underneath store counters and the walls to rear observation points.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:24 PM
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Cant go wrong with a Milt Sparks Summer Special IWB...
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:51 PM
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The Galco Speed Master high rise pancake works well for strong side carry. The paddle version that Keith44spl mentioned has the advantage of cross draw positioning while seated, I've used both with my 66 snubby for years.
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Old 03-10-2020, 06:44 PM
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If forced to shoot him it will be pull and shoot with very little time to aim.
A smaller handgun like a 442 will provide multiple carry options including jacket pocket, should deploy faster then a larger revolver, is dead nuts at 10'.
Appendix and cross draw are fast draws, Vedder AWIB Lite Tuck can be received under a week from order, the De Santis Sky Marshall cross draw in a few days.
Assume you have already filed for a restraining order, as even if not granted, still gives your defense lawyer solid assistance with your defense.
Good luck, stay aware, keep alive.
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:14 PM
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That 19-4 is screaming for OWB bling so I'd look at some of the holster options available at Lobo Gun Leather.

OWB- Outside the waist band
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Old 03-15-2020, 03:46 PM
Kid44 Kid44 is offline
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Default I have the same gun,

mine is a factory version round butt Model 19. I carry mine in a Bianchi paddle holster at about the 5 o'clock position, or in a Bianchi all suede vertical shoulder holster.
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Old 03-15-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LPD256 View Post
Here’s a thought. If you actually have to deploy your CCW weapon and squeeze the trigger, that gun becomes evidence and will likely spend a bunch of time in police custody. Probably not in a velvet lined locker. I’d rather let them take a $400 gun. Save your nice stuff for show and tell at the barbecue.
In complete agreement with that, I rarely, if ever carry anything I am not willing to lose forever, or for a very long time. I now carry my Ruger SR1911, won't be completely heartbroken if it gets confiscated and it is easily replaceable, unlike my classic S&W's.
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Old 04-18-2020, 08:39 PM
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Was perusing this thread thinking about a new holster for my 4” Colt 357.

While I have read many times the advice not to carry a favorite BBQ gun in case you have to shoot someone and the police take it, I think, in what I believe the extremely unlikely case I need to shoot somebody, the police confiscating my gun will be the least of my worries.

Meanwhile, I like my customized revolvers, and enjoy carrying them.

By the way, BlueRidgeBoy, whatta’d ya get?

Last edited by Onomea; 04-18-2020 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 09:19 AM
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While I have read many times the advice not to carry a favorite BBQ gun in case you have to shoot someone and the police take it, I think, in what I believe the extremely unlikely case I need to shoot somebody, the police confiscating my gun will be the least of my worries.

Meanwhile, I like my customized revolvers, and enjoy carrying them.
The other side is if I get killed I don't want too be caught dead with an ugly piece of junk. Shoot good guns, hunt good blooded dogs and ride good blooded horses. Larry
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:18 AM
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Simply Rugger makes a Roy Baker tribute pancake holster with strap, and if looking for a showpiece holster, they offer engraving as well.

https://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommer...158&parent=669

Last edited by LCC; 04-19-2020 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onomea View Post
Was perusing this thread thinking about a new holster for my 4” Colt 357.

While I have read many times the advice not to carry a favorite BBQ gun in case you have to shoot someone and the police take it, I think, in what I believe the extremely unlikely case I need to shoot somebody, the police confiscating my gun will be the least of my worries.

Meanwhile, I like my customized revolvers, and enjoy carrying them.

By the way, BlueRidgeBoy, whatta’d ya get?
I am still considering the available choices, and will write our eminent Holstorian for his specific guidance since he seems to have put the most thought into answering the question I originally posed. As soon as I make a decision, I will post it here, hopefully with pictures. Thanks, my friend.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:58 PM
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If you can find one. an AKJ Concealco works well.

Here's mine with a Ruger Speed Six (Similar size)
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Old 04-19-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
The most important decision you will make, is center of gravity. Many, many holsters are designed to take advantage of the longer, 4" and 5" barrels to help hold the pistol vertically; then are cut shorter for 2" and 2-1/2" barrel lengths and the result is a floppy holster; followed by criticism that you haven't got the right belt. Great for belt sales. And forum posts.
I completely support this statement. If the holster is balanced properly, then it will be comfortable with any belt.

My primary around the homestead belt is a floppy walmart belt that I have had forever. It supports my L and N frame snubbies just fine so long as the cylinder is equal with the belt.

If the holster puts the cylinder higher than the belt line, then even a stiff belt feels like it is trying to twist away from my body as the weight of the frame and cyl cannot be stabilized by the stubby barrel length.

Last edited by SquarePizza; 04-19-2020 at 04:14 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:34 PM
Kid44 Kid44 is offline
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The other side is if I get killed I don't want too be caught dead with an ugly piece of junk. Shoot good guns, hunt good blooded dogs and ride good blooded horses. Larry
Don't forget to drink good wine and beer.
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