Hopefully the detective never had to draw that gun quickly.

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U.S. Coast Guard, retired CPO

A little semi-official "I was there when..." history for you.
I spent my career with Denver Police in Colorado, and used a crossdraw in uniform for a few years. They issued the same or similar holster that the Colorado State Patrol issued, made by a local saddle company among other suppliers. Around half of the officers used those, mostly the really old guys, but we could use any plain black duty holster we wanted. One of the things that some cops used to do was have a leather person (holster-maker or cobbler) re-sew the belt loop to tilt the holster to around 45 degrees. I made some of my own holsters, and liked to make mine darn-near horizontal. Since I did my own leather work, word got around and I fixed quite a few holsters for the guys.
No one ever was concerned about gun-snatches, and although you might think otherwise, I do not recall a single one. One reason was that the gun butt was a convenient hand rest. Everyone I knew developed the same habit of leaning or holding that butt whenever around people. The crossdraw couldn't be grabbed from the back, and was exceptionally easy to draw when seated in a car, something we did whenever anyone came up to us, especially around housing projects.
When semi-autos were introduced in 1989, we weren't allowed to carry them in crossdraws for duty, and the practice started dying out. They completely outlawed them about 10 or so years later for all duty use.
I was told by trooper friends that the reason Colorado State Patrol wore crossdraws was because their chiefs wanted them. And since CSP was one of those "everyone wears exactly the same leather gear in exactly the same place" departments, that's just how it was.
I was told years ago what one of the previous posts mentioned, that the reason crossdraw was so popular with plainclothesmen (now there's a 1930's term!) was that they'd use their left hand to open their suit coat and reach in with the right. I also recall reading someplace that when the FBI taught drawing a gun from the strong side, they were supposed to make some sort of "quick-step" to the left, and that was supposed to make the suit coat catch air and open up enough to reach in. That always sounded kinda hokey to me, but then we are talking about the feds.
I remember quite a few of the dicks, especially the narcs, using that "cavalry-style" draw back in the old days. Some did it "Mexican" style with no holster. Cops back then, at least in the city, were notorious copy-cats, so when us youngsters saw those cooler-than-cool narcs carrying that way, you can bet a lot of us (including yours truly) tried it, too. I found it to be better suited to semi-autos, only because they were easier to hide that way than a revolver.
Nowadays, I find myself going back to crossdraw. Reverse shoulder replacement has limited my backward arm motion, so drawing from a strong-side high ride of any kind is uncomfortable if not impossible.
By the way: S&W Fan, I started with Denver in 1979, so we may have crossed paths back then.

Gunn wore a paddle Lewis ( maybe Bucheimer) due to his belt less slacks. He and Lt. Jacobi both carried the same type of snub, which seemed to change depending on which season of the show it was. Usually the snub was a Chief’s Special or a 2 inch half-moon sighted M&P square butt. Sometimes you’d see a DS and one without it ejector rod knob was used in the pilot. Lt. Jacobi was a southpaw. Most everybody else used 5 inch M&Ps.
MeTV sometimes runs Peter Gunn during the wee hours.

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks to all who posted.

I have 3 pair of those Sansabelt slacks. Khaki, Blue, and Grey.
Unfortunately the waistband has mysteriously shrunk on all 3.

Ingramite: That photo you show of the video, it looks like Pete's holster
is empty, but it also looks like the grip of a gun up where a shoulder
holster would be? I have read that in later shows he carried a 1911
type in a shoulder holster.

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In Omnia Paratus

This may be the holster you’re referring to, it was made by Heiser and was called the State Patrol model. Fred Mueller also made it and I believe Colorado Saddlery did as well. This one is lined, most of the ones I’ve run across were not. Some I’ve seen also had rawhide whip stitching.
Regards,
turnerriver

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turnerriver

The Colorado State Patrol version was unlined, nearly neutral cant, and had a laced seam. CSP started out as the State Courtesy Patrol in the mid-1930s. Standard sidearm was the Colt New Service revolver carried in a cross-draw holster (originally made by Colorado Saddlery). The official badge is a 7-point star made of a copper alloy (originally from ore mined in Colorado) and struck in a die that remains in use today. Badges are numbered and are issued based upon seniority, with the longest serving active officer wearing badge #1 until retirement (I used to play cards with Candelario "Candy" Duran, badge #1 until his retirement in the early 1990s).

CSP officers were officially known as Patrolmen until about the mid-1980s. The chief of CSP held the rank of Colonel, deputy chiefs were majors, and the various districts were commanded by captains. The title "trooper" came into use in the early 1980s.

My older brother started on CSP about 1960. Uniform at that time included long-sleeved wool shirt (French blue), pink-tan trousers, black Jodpur-style short boots, necktie, and the 8-point "bus driver" caps. Cross-draw holster on a Sam Browne belt, double drop-pouch for ammunition (W-W Super Speed .38 Special), handcuffs in a snap-flap pouch at the right front. Duty revolver was a Colt Python .357 magnum. That remained the standard until the 1970's when a short-sleeved shirt was approved for summer use. The next major changes came in about 1980 when the Pythons were retired ($150 each at Dave Cook Sporting Goods where they were traded in), replaced first by S&W Model 66 and later S&W Model 686, and the caps were replaced by campaign hats (fur felt for winter, straw for summer). Late 1980's saw V-neck pullover sweaters authorized for cold weather use.

The original charter of the Colorado State Patrol provided authority to enforce traffic laws statewide, enforce vehicle registration and license plate laws, deal with the scourge of stolen automobiles, and to assist motorists stranded on rural roadways ("Courtesy Patrol" function). Later came mandates to enforce motor carrier safety laws and fuel tax license requirements. CSP remained a division of the Colorado Highway Department until the late 1980s when the new Department of Public Safety was created, absorbing CSP fro the Highway Department and Colorado Bureau of Investigation from the Department of Local Affairs.

Colorado has a long history of favoring local control. CSP has no formalized duties for criminal investigations, leaving those functions to the sheriffs of counties and police departments in incorporated cities, and no authority to interfere with local agencies or affairs. CSP troopers have full peace officer authority statewide, but no statutory duties involving crime reporting or investigations. As a matter of practice, CSP will assist local departments on request, and they will certainly apprehend fugitives or wanted persons, but otherwise confine their operations to state highways and roads in the unincorporated areas of the state.

Yessir, that is the one. As Lobo states after your post, Colorado Saddlery did CSP's, and I think they did many of ours, too. I definitely recall the rawhide stitching on quite a few. Ours had the snap reversed from the one in your photo - the rear flap was over the front one, similar, sorta, with a thumb break. The vast majority of ours were 4-inch; I recall only one 6-inch of this style, worn by a Denver Deputy Sheriff back in the late 1970s. He also had his altered to increase the angle.

They also guard the Governor and the State Capitol grounds.
A locally interesting bit of trivia: There was quite a bit of political dust raised when the Chief of the patrol started having "State Trooper" added to the rear of State Patrol cars, allegedly "without the permission of the Legislature." The reason was that there was still bad blood from the Ludlow Massacre in 1914, when National Guard troops and private armed guards opened fire on a miners' camp in Ludlow, killing 21 people. The stickers were removed, but as it turned out, only temporarily. They were used as part of the new silver and black vehicle color scheme with little to no comment, the color change itself taking all of the attention.

Moving right along with the thread drift (wink, wink), the Ludlow incident of 1914 was a large part of Colorado's trend in favor of local control, distancing state government from involvement.

Some things you will probably have difficulty finding out from popular accounts of the Ludlow Massacre include the involvement of a large group of known violent anarchists, smuggled shipments of military rifles into the miners' camp, and multiple incidents of sniper fire on mining company guards and management personnel prior to deployment of the National Guard in an effort to quell the violence. The Guard personnel knew they were dealing with an openly hostile camp regularly engaged in armed violence.

I'm not saying that the use of machineguns against a tent city of miners' families was an appropriate use of force, but that followed many months of low-level warfare waged by radical labor organizers. Not a pretty part of history, but far from the one-sided accounts now presented as the whole truth.

He can grab it with is left hand. But has to draw behind his back. Saw John Wayne do it in a movie(I think it was "Eldorado"). But he does not have a Cavalry carry rig. Just a regular right handed holster placed at 5 o'clock.

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Expect the unexpected

"Awright, you newbies, listen up and listen tight! Most of youse are righthanded, and so are most of the other guys on the beat. That's why we just ran out of right-handed holsters! If you want to pack with one of those, you are just out of luck! We only got left-handed holsters for issue right now, and you are welcome to any of those. They'll work on the right side, but ya gotta twist a bit to get to the gun! Step up and get one and quit your belly achin', you get me? Department money don't grow on trees!"

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

TV didn't give doodly-squat about accuracy or authenticity ...

The Rifleman was set in the 1880's .... Lucas McCain's rifle , from day one was a model 1892 Winchester ... No way that's right .

Wanted Dead or Alive ... Josh Randall's model 92 Winchester is OK it's those huge freaking 45-70 rounds he carries in his belt that are stupid ... you never see him load from his belt into his sawed off rifle ... wrong ammo !!!

I could go go on , this is a pet peeve , but when I start pointing out all the weapon / ammo / date irregularities ... my wife tells me to stop ... Nobody Cares !
But that's not true ... some of us care .

Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Yes ... it was Eldorado ... I saw him do it last night ... he was having a spasm in his back and right arm/hand ... a old wound left a bullet pressing against his spinal cord that gave him problems every so often ... when he reached around his back with his left hand and drew from the right holster ... I need to try that and see if my arm's long enough ...
He almost shot James Caan who was following him .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I remember Nebraska Highway Patrol in about 1970 used a duty holster for their K-frames that was crossdraw with a chest strap that looped over one shoulder and attached to the front and back of the gunbelt. I think these were also called "suicide straps".

I once owned a Colt Python made in 1972 that was issued to a Colorado State Police patrolman and carried a C.S.P. property number on the frame under the crane. The issue holster was a Heiser H460 as shown below

Attached Images

	CSP Python Rig Heiser H460 Model.jpg (14.4 KB, 49 views)
	Heiser H460 Holster Catalog Page.jpg (54.0 KB, 42 views)

Washington Highway Patrol was famous for their black bow ties, mountie hats and a 6in Highway Patrolman in a plain Black crossdraw. Until the early 70s WSP had a height requirement of 6ft minimum.
When I made plainclothes I wore a Jackass shoulder rig and a ankle rig for a Colt Cobra or DS. Lots of plainclothes folk wore a crossdraw of some type because they spent a lot of time in chairs sitting in desks or in cars. You pushed the cross draw back to the 4 o'clock position while doing paperwork in the station or Office and then when you hit the bricks the rig was moved around to the 3 o'clock position if you were right handed and 9 o'clock if you were lefthanded. Didn't like the Bianchi 9R upside down rig, when you moved your offhand shoulder and arm up and out of the way the rig with revolver moved rear of the centerline of your body and hard to reach. You learned to trap the 9R and some shoulder rigs but not the horizontal models with your upper off arm to stabilize the location of the weapon. This was tough if you were wrestling with the offhand while attempting to draw with the strong hand. Plainclothes work, had a tendency to "blow up" without warning many times when things looked calm. Ask the wrong question, call the wrong name, many ways to see things going south very fast.

When I went to work as a rookie crime reporter in 1969, police weaponry was still all revolvers, and many (I would say at least half) of the detectives wore S&W Chiefs or comparable 2 inch revolvers in cross draw holsters worn around 9 o'clock. The first carry rig I had was the same, and was very comfortable for long hours in the car at night.

I think the cross draw position evolved from close to (if not actually) vertical to more horizontal, like one sees them nowadays, over time.

Looking at the cross draw holsters on the '50s Peter Gunn TV show, I speculated above that maybe they were simply strong side holsters worn on the off side. Based on this thread, now I think not, but it would explain why I thought so.

On Barney Miller I think Jack Soo wore his Detective Special cross draw but way too far in back on the left side to ever get to it quick with his right hand. In the great film “Heat” Al Pacino does the exact opposite. He wears an ivory handled Colt Commander so far forward it’s plainly visible when he’s walking around. That’s the only part about the movie I thought was a mistake.

Jimmy hit the nail on the head. The cross draw holster was used both by uniformed and plain clothes officers prior to cages being used in cars for prisoner transport. Prisoner wagons were few and far between usually tied up at court or jail runs. If single officer prisoner rode up front in passenger seat, officers weapon was on opposite side of prisoner to avoid an opportunity to grab officers weapon even being handcuffed which was normally in front and this was prior to seatbelts. Seen numerous photos of state, local, uniformed and plain clothes officers with cross draw holsters prior to the use of :security" holsters.