I really like the .357 125gr round. I think it shoots really flat and it just works for me. What auto loader caliber would be close to matching the .357's performance?

.357 SIG is as close as you can get, I believe. You might also want to look at the .38 Super and 9X23

.38 Super has been around for a long time and was well thought of by lawmen in Texas in the 30s and 40s.

Rule 303

Why not the 135gr loadings for 10mm. 1400fps (little less than .357's 1440) and 588 ft.lbs (little more than .357's 575)

460 rowland, closer to 44 magnum specs....

230gr. 1400fps

Why not get the real thing. A much greater variety of ammo is available.
There are several for auction on Gunbroker right now.

Secret Service chose the .357Sig to carry for the FBI evaluation for the Secret Service go to

http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com/357sig.pdf

Don't forget about the Desert Eagle in .357 Magnum!

For my money, what 270 said?
I know nothing about the .357 Sig loading, but I can read? And what I read, is equal in every important aspect to the .357. And that's coming from a guy who over the years spent no small amount of time trying to make .38 Supers run well in a 1911'. The Sig round has the advantage of acceptance, great bullets at the time it came along, and a shape that allows it to feed well apparently. Who am I to argue?

When the Pa.Game Commission transitioned from revolvers (686`s) they wanted the same velocity/ft lbs. as the revolver they replaced.Went with full size Glock in .357 Sig 125 grain Gold Dot I believe.All my conversations with WCO`s and deputies have been nothing but positive.

Buy a Sig 40 caliber and you can get a 357 Sig Barrel and have two, two guns in one.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Perhaps you should have just bought one in .38 Super or 9x23mm from one of shops that build them regularly. My SVI feeds Supers all day; even 9x23's (which is what it is actually chambered for). I see guys at matchs several times a month running Supers, SuperComps, some 9x23's and the odd TJ in their 1911's and they don't seem to be having problems.

As the Super was designed to run in the 1911 platform, it would seem THAT is not an issue.

I met a shooter at a match this summer in MN who was wearing a Coonan shirt. He said that Dan Coonan was going to start producing the .357 1911 soon. I used to shoot IPSC with Dan years ago. I haven't read any more about whether or not it is going to happen.

I got rid of mine because magazines were almost impossible to find and when found they cost over $100 each used and beatup.

+1 on the .38 super recomendations.

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Big bang, much smash'em.

9x23 Winchester 125gr Silvertips and 124gr JSP chronograph at an average of 1448fps out of my .38 Super 1911. That matches the .357 mag load and beats it with the 10rd capacity. Plus the gun runs like a top with both .38 Super and 9x23.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I cannot believe no one has mentioned the 9x25 Dillon. Basically it is a 10mm necked down to take 9mm bullets. It is a flat out screamer.

Basic barrel swap out in a 10mm Glock and you are rolling with an auto cannon.

90 grain bullets at 2100 fps
125 grainers at around 1700.

A bit snappy to shoot.

The .357 Magnum is a great round. The .357 SIG is ballistically very close from what I have read. I know that in my Glock 31, it is very flat shooting, and very accurate. At the same time, the recoil is pretty gentle, although more than the same weapon (G17) in 9mm. I really like my G31, and I am looking at a .40 S&W barrel for it to have two caliber capability. The magazines are identical.

The G20 in 10mm is more powerful, but is also larger, heavier, and a little more difficult to carry.

The Highlander

The Kimber Ultra Aegis on my hip at present has been converted to 9x23. From its little 3" barrel, WW 125gr. Silvertips get 1375-1390 fps, almost exactly what our DPS gets from .357 Sig in their P226s, very, very close to 4" .357 magnum revolver numbers, and better by far than most 125gr. loads in 2" .357 magnums. My 5" 9x23 Aegis gets 1450-1490 fps from the same load, depending on the ammo lot.

Probably because brass is quite expensive and you would HAVE to reload. You also lose a little capacity compared to a Super or 9xWhatever. The lack of factory ammo and cost of brass and dies are the real killers.

9x25 dillon is terrific if you are a reasonably accomplished reloader. forget about finding ammo in your local gunshop. easiest way for what you want is your choice of 357sig guns that are out there. btw the dillon is more than just a little snappy to shoot.

I shy away from the exotic stuff. If I can't buy a box of ammo at a decent gun shop I pass on that gun.

The Sig will shade the Super a bit but I have had several Supers with no experience with the Sig. I load the 115 JHP to a clocked 1425 from my Supers. I think this is pretty damn close to 357 performance.

Thanks for that! now I gotta clean up all the drool on the keyboard, desk, floor, etc

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Dum spiramus tuebimur

Thanks guys

What ammo would you use for a .38 Super in defensive loads?

I was under the impression .38 Super is only used for competitions these days and target ammo is the only thing available.

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Save a cow, eat a vegetarian.

Here and there some. The 38 Super suffers from the same red headed step child ailment of the .41 Magnum and .44 Special. Not popular enough to take off full tilt, but too damned good to be allowed to die? 38/44's Aegis, the Dillon, etc. Who knows why lightening strikes one and not another? Truth is, they're ALL really fine stuff. And I would be quite happy to have any of them available if things ever went sideways!

One day about 3 or 4 years ago, several of us had a chronograph session to check out the .357 Sig, as our department had just authorized it, got some issue and practice ammo, and one of the guys was planning on carrying a newly purchased Glock in that chambering at work. I just spent a half hour looking for my notes but can't find them, so the numbers written here are from memory.

We decided to use the 125 grain Federal .357 Magnum cartridge loading in a 4 inch Model 686 as the baseline. (Us older guys loved that round!) We shot about 5 different varieties of the .357 Sig cartridge with 125 grain bullets through the Glock.

I dragged along my 5 inch Colt Government Model in 9X23 Winchester and W-W 125 grain Silvertip ammo.

Bottom line: the 4 inch .357 Sig-chambered Glock's fastest round was about 150 fps short of the .357 Magnum S&W. The slowest .357 Sig loading was about 200 fps short.

The 9X23 Silvertips were pretty much the same velocity as the .357 Magnum Federals.

One guy had a 5 inch Beretta 92-FS and a box of 129 grain +P+ rounds. They shot about the same speed as the fastest .357 Sig load.

None of the rounds we chronographed that day shot as fast as their makers' web site catalogs claimed they would; although some were close, some were a good 150 fps slower than advertised.

I don't know how much value you place in 150 fps velocity, but I don't think that one can say that 125 grain bullets at 1250 fps is the same as 125 grain bullets at 1400 fps.

If I was making the decision between a 9mm and a .357 Sig, in the same make and size of pistol, and +P+ 9mm ammo was available as an option, I would go with the +P+ 9mm and get a couple more cartridges per magazine. (The .357 Sig uses a .40 S&W case necked down to .355", so the 9mm magazines usually hold a couple more cartridges than the same gun chambered for the .357 Sig or .40 will.)

It is too bad the 9X23 Winchester round never took off. Not enough makers offered it. The most common platform is a 1911 and many law enforcement agencies just don't allow their officers and deputies to carry the 1911.

I had BAR STO Precision make me a custom 9X23 barrel to fit my S&W Model 1006. I noticed one day that the 9X23 rounds fit and hand-cycled just fine through the S&W 10mm's magazine, in and out of the pistol. Apparently, the 10mm Model 1006's breech face, extractor and ejector are close enough to work with 9X23, at least by hand, in my 1006. I thought about it and ordered the barrel. They only made S&W barrels once a year at the time and I had forgotten all about it when one day the new barrel showed up in the mail. It was marked "9X25" and I called them. They said to return it, I did, and a correct barrel arrived soon thereafter. The barrel dropped in, as it was supposed to.

Several years later, I still haven't gotten around to taking it out and shooting it to see if it will really work!

It is just conjecture, but had the 9X23 round come out a couple of years earlier than it did, and had it been chambered in, say, S&W's big stainless steel .45/10mm frame pistol, it may have sold some units. Lots of law enforcement agencies had, or were in the process of, given up their .357 Mag revolvers for auto pistols and were unhappy about giving up the Magnum sixgun's stopping power. Many were unhappy with the performance of the 9mm cartridge.

I think that a stainless steel, traditional DA/SA action semiauto from a traditional American handgun maker like S&W, offering the same ballistic performance of the .357 Mag the police were giving up, would have been a decent seller to a lot of big agencies to replace their .357 revolvers, and for better or worse, what police agencies choose to carry affects what a lot of citizens choose to carry.

I just went and found the BAR STO barrel. It is a very nice bit of machine work. That company makes fine products.

I got a .38 Super barrel and a new bushing for my 9X23 Winchester Colt. Both chamberings in the Colt 1911 use the same magazines. I put in a standard recoil spring and stuff with the .38 Super barrel as the 9X23 recoil spring set-up is the same style as Colt used on their 10mm Deltas and the .38 Super isn't as hot.

Winchester loads the .38 Super with a 125 grain Silvertip jacketed hollowpoint bullet. It seems potent enough for self defense.

Saxon Pig, that is a handsome .38 Super you have there. Nice stocks!

Winchester offers their Silvertips in .38 super. Corbon also has a hollow point 125 grain (I think) at a about 1350 fps which should be pretty close to the .357 magnum performance. Aguila offers a +P load but it is a FMJ loading, if I remember correctly.

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Big bang, much smash'em.

Winchester's 125 grain .38 Super load is rated (in their catalog) at 1240 fps.

It would leave a mark.