The Katrina episode and the personal experience of a relative evacuating Houston during Ike has gotten me to thinking.

Where we live floods, hurricanes and forest fires are not likely to drive us from our home. The only thing I can think of would be radiological or biological. Should we be forced to leave our home I figured on throwing my shotgun and revolver into the car with a modest amount of water, food, fuel and "roughing it" supplies.
We have two 50 mile distant locations we can go to and should be prepared for the possibility of walking part or all of that 50 miles. We are not 20 years old anymore. I figure we need to keep our back packs under 20 pounds with food, water and foul weather gear. I want to travel light and not attract any attention from thugs or police/military nor intimidate innocents along the way. I am not trying to be a warfighter or police. I just want to have the option of saying no to someone who does not have good intentions. If circumstances require us to leave the car behind I would probably leave the heavy shotgun behind and just carry the revolver concealed. I know the circumstantial variations can make any decision or suggestion wrong. What is a reasonable amount of ammunition to carry for my revolver? I was thinking of 30 rounds.

Thanks,
mtheo

Can you stash some stuff near your destination?

Why not just throw in a couple of boxes in the car? It's doesn't take up that much room.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Good point Barb !

If you can carry 30 , you can manage 48 assuming six rounds each in the HKS speadloaders . Another consideration to reduce weight , if it's a .357 go with 110gr instead of 158gr . Might also consider something with wheels to pull instead of carrying everything on your back assuming you're vehicle dies and you're on a paved surface .

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Mitch

Unless you have super light packs, 20 lbs will add up QUICK! A gallon of water weighs over 7 lbs alone.

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NRA Endowment Member

If size and weight are the main concerns, the best option would probably be a quality "full size" 9mm pistol with a half dozen or so loaded magazines.

A Sig P226 with six loaded magazines would amount to three times the ammunition without much extra weight or bulk...I am mainly thinking loaded magazines compared to "loose" revolver ammunition here.

I like revolvers and I prefer .45s to 9mms, but addressing this sort of "issue" is where the 9mms shine.

If by chance you venture into hostile territory, you will need backup. Your partner will need a light carry weapon and at least a box of ammo, hopefully in the same caliber as your weapon. One short barreled handgun and one long barreled, hunting food may be an issue. Keep your packs light, good shoes are a must for a 50 mile hike. Plan your route and train, train, train.

Frankly, if the car isn't suitable for getting you where you need to be, get a different vehicle.

My nephew teaches survival training. He spent over 10 years in the Special Forces/Airborne rangers, and had many different survival type classes and a lot of various training here and in other countries. He said the first day of his class, guys will show up with several guns strapped on and the first thing he tells them is to "loose all the guns". He likes a Ruger 10/22 and a maybe a Browning Buckmark .22 pistol for MOST survival situations.

Of course, certain survival situations require different equipt.

I would think 48-50 rounds would do you through anything short of a insurrection, and one box of ammunition, especially in a factory box, could hardly be considered excessive.
“Might also consider something with wheels to pull instead of carrying everything on your back...”
I have seen some range carts which have good wheels and tires, about 10” dia. I would think, they are capable of pulling over rough ground. It would make it possible to take a bit more food and water.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I would think 48-50 rounds would do you through anything short of a insurrection, and one box of ammunition, especially in a factory box, could hardly be considered excessive.
“Might also consider something with wheels to pull instead of carrying everything on your back...”
I have seen some range carts which have good wheels and tires, about 10” dia. I would think, they are capable of pulling over rough ground. They are built along the lines of a golf cart, which might also be worth considering, instead of a driver you have an 870.
It would make it possible to take a bit more food and water.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

As long as I find diesel fuel or another appropriate oil, I hope not to have to abandon my transport in such a situation. I'd toss in my FAL 10 loaded magazines, and at least two BHP's and a crate of 9mm en magazines.

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Si vis pacem para bellum.

We have a Subaru Forester...I am not concerned about it making it 50 miles it is just that during the Houston evacuation my cousin witnessed a number of people running out of gas while idling in a 30 mile long parking lot.

Both 50 mile distant destinations are family....lots of resources. From these points we have east and west destinations of 400 miles if we al have to go further.

A lot of people are now worrying about survival in a collapsed economy due to either natural or man-made disasters. I'm in the process of reading a fiction book that addresses these concerns and gives some possible solutions. It will border on an extreme scenario to many, but I find it interesting and absorbing reading. The author knows his stuff, has done extensive research and has given a lot of thought to the subject.

"PATRIOTS: A novel of survival in the coming collapse" The author is James Wesley Rawles, and it's published by Ulysses Press. It's available through Amazon and other outlets. It will give you a lot of food for thought.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

thanks Andy,

I am asking about how much when walking.

You are absolutely right...If we have to abandon our car and finish the trip on foot all I need to do is get to ourselves to either of the 50 mile locations as fast as possible so other than some food, water and some foul weather gear we are not planing on carrying much.

The most needed survival item, but the heaviest element to carry, is water. In addition to a reasonable amount of fresh water, consider one of many water purifying systems available. Here is one I like because it filters many/most bad "bugs" and chemicals:

Katadyn Exstream XR Water Purifier Bottle Nitro-Pak.com The World Leader in Innovative & Affordable Preparedness Gear

Pete

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NRA, GOA Lifer

Very, very nice!
From another British vehicle tinkerer of old.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

There are a lot of fun twists and turns in all this. Thats why the survivalist forums are overflowing with folks shooting down your every solution (but often wanting to sell you theirs.) Its not just your car running out of fuel, its the folks in front of you running out and blocking the roads that are just as problematical. Hint: If you're in an evacuation scenario, don't let your engine idle. With a modern Fuel Injected engine, its more efficient to just restart it when you want to move.

Do you know alternate routes? Do you have a map? You know, the things printed on paper? So if your GPS stops working, you have another alternative?

Just having all the phone poles dropped across the roadway should discourage anything but a built truck or jeep. Hint: even if you have one of those, bring along a chainsaw or two.

50 miles is more than most folks can walk in their lifetime..! Especially those who are in terrible physical shape, obese, morbidly obese, or with any kind of handicap. Hint: if its really a must do hike, the Starbucks and McDonalds won't be serving. Little kids and their tenders will be at a huge disadvantage. But many of us elderly would die trying to evacuate them. It'd be better than living with the knowledge we abandoned them.

History has shown (Katrina) that the "authorities" can't be trusted. Just because a law says something doesn't mean they need to follow it. Remember, laws apply to us, not to elected officials. Or those who are supposed to be upholding the laws. They make their own.

As an aside, does anyone know if NO PD has returned the guns they confiscated illegally? Or have they somehow made compensation? I doubt it.

Back to the auto question. You might be significantly better off with a bicycle. What kind of firefight do you plan on having? A box of ammo should be fine. A second gunload is probably sufficient.

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Dick Burg

1 .45 automatic.
2 boxes of ammunition.
4 days' concentrated emergency rations.
1 drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills.
1 miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible.
100 dollars in rubles.
100 dollars in gold.
9 packs of chewing gum.
1 issue of prophylactics.
3 lipsticks.
3 pairs of nylon stockings. --2-

This'll get you to vegas

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Forum consigliere

Well, I forgot to read the fine print.

As crazy as this sounds, more than starting off with the stuff for your pack, exactly what kind of pack you have makes an extreme difference!

If you have a hiking store in your local vicinity, such as REI or a "mom and pop" store, go check them out. Now, you will have to put up with the "granola-crunchers" to go in there, but you need a pack that will support the weight and allow you to walk farther and be less tired. Good packs are in the $300 range. Don't go with the largest, but the smallest that you can get away with for your use.

Take your pack, and load it with 40-60 pounds of stuff and walk a mile on level ground, see how it fares...and how you do too.

As Rev. Burg so nobly alludes to...many of us older folks wouldn't be able to "evacuate." Considering where I am, it would have to be pretty bad for this community to get to that point. I'd have to stick it out, as I'm too old and crabby to run.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Rburg,

Yep....the problems will come from the actions of the 100 thousand others that we'll be bumper to bumper with. My Houston cousin was turning his engine off at every stop but if there was any hesitation in his advancing when the car in front moved some joker behind started laying on the horn or someone in the other lane would try to cut in in front of him. Perhaps the ideal evacuation car is a Prius?

I suppose I could strap our bicycles on top.

Andy,

I have tried 25 pounds in an upscale daypack.....my wife and I walk 2 miles about 3 times a week...it only took a mile to realize I needed something better.

I think I could go w/ Cajun's plan and get it all in a big fanny pack!

Care to share that source with us?

As for the one condom....not much of a party animal these days?

And as for getting to vegas, what about back again?

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Dick Burg

I believe we used this information in the past, with Bob Bettis and Caje. Our conclusion was, "We're too old to fight, too fat to run. So we'll just kill you."

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Dick Burg

The younger ones may not be able to figure it out but us old whiffs know exactly where it came from And desparate times call for desparate measures, they CAN can be recycled-eh laddie!

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Forum consigliere

I presume that's a reference to the punchline "The regiment voted for repair."

Just by mentioning the drug name has excited the Google spiders and there are now pop up banners ads to by drugs where? ONLINE of course

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Still Running Against the Wind

The only realistic plan I have for evacuation is "my bowels"....and under controlled circumstance I hope.

What of a blade, a fire maker kit, dry socks, some plastic sheeting, a little cord....and yes, IMHO some kind of ballistic generation device is indicated.

"50 miles" is a longLongLONG way on foot with or without a decent pack.

Where's GatorFarmers OCD list when we need it?

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

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Aye Laddie, that we have

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Forum consigliere

Slim Pickens ("Dr. Strangelove").

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Big bang, much smash'em.

I found this information to be exactly what I was looking for when I started putting together my Bug-Out-Bag. This link answers just about all your questions.

http://www.bob-oracle.com/index.htm

I will add that the heaviest item in my bag (which I am just starting to organize) is ammo. I have decided that a .22 617 10-shot revolver, and my Ruger 10-22 will be the two of the three guns that will be coming with me. The 617 goes into the bag with a 550 bulk pack of federal ammo, 100 rds. of hyper velocity Remington "yellow jackets" and 100 rds, of CCI stingers. The XD-45 will be on my hip, and I will pack only preloaded magazines for it in the bag. The 10-22 will have to be carried if I have to abandon the vehicle. I am also thinking of substituting a Savage MK-II FVT bolt action .22 for the 10-22. It has sling swivels and a comfortable sling already in place.

I had toyed with the idea of taking a .357 revolver and 100 rds, of ammo, but have decided against it. If I have time, I will load a couple of pre-packed ammo cans into the vehicle, along with the Mossberg 590 and the shotshell ammo can. That will have to stay with the vehicle, or burried / hidden nearby if I had to abandon it.

I bought a large capacity (90 litre) suspension hiking backpack to tote the bare essentials mentioned in the link above. Trying to meet all the requirements for a two week walking journey AND keep the weight as low as possible has become quite a challenge. Water is a big problem as far as carry weight, so I made sure that there is a water purification system in the pack. Tablets have already been purchased, and I am looking seriously at one of those filtration pumps.

Check out the link that I provided, and then decide on your needs.

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Freedom above all else.

If I was expecting to walk far and had to reduce firepower to the bare minimum I'd probably select my old Rossi pump rifle in 22 mag. It weighs next to nothing, shoots well and 100 rounds of ammo is relatively light weight.

Besides, it has the feature where you can hold the trigger back and fire just as fast as you can pump the action. That's always fun.

Where's Gatorfarmer?

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WALSTIB

I must be the only Golfer here. I'm surprised nobody else thought of this.
If I found myself having to bug out with 50 miles to go and thought the Car might not get me all the way there due to blocked roads or mechanical issues, my Wheeled Golf Bag would be in the car.
It has plenty of pockets for First Aid Supplies, Snack Bars, Bottled Water, and of course Ammo. Where the Clubs go is room for my trusty Rem. 870( No Way would I leave it behind with the car) with the sock from my 1 Wood on it and I'd bring the 9 Iron for good measure. I have a holder for a Umbrella on it to keep the sun off me.
Think about it. You could carry a lighter pack on your back and wheel the heavy stuff.

Livin on the Gulf coast I understand the need to boogie if a storm
is on its way. Just cut and run 48 hours before the panic.
Outside of that I don't much get the evacuation deal unless you have a specific/safe place to go.
Pending why your evacuating I guess is the key.
If things are south in your part of the world the road is the most
dangerous place you could put yourself.

walnutred,

I have a Rossi .22 mag pump that I had cut down to an 18" barrel and a Taurus stainless .22 mag pump that came w/ a 16" barrel. The Rossi was originally purchased to be my truck gun. I added a picatinny rail to the Taurus for an LED light. It now is my favorite varmit gun. I have considered mentioning it in combination with my 351PD as part of my bug out gear due to the lack of weight of the ammo but I wimped out figuring I would catch a load of grief from the 9mm/.357/.40/.45 master blasters.

mtheo

You hit the nail right on the head!
I had to "camp out" at my work as my position demanded that I be on property as "critical personnel" I had a front row seat to the Houston Evacuation Fiasco.
I saw people carrying stuff they did not need and pay the price for the extra weight and not using it for critical supplies...I can only imagine what would've been the result had the storms took a direct hit here like Ike did. (For the record- Houston got REAL lucky during Ike)
In either case, my suggestion is this: MAP your evac route and do not wait until the last minute to make up your mind. In Texas, there are lots of backroads, country roads, and gravel roads that will get you to safe harbor without risking the Interstate highways which will ALWAYS jam up.
Yeah, the back roads may be longer with lots of turns and twists, but if you have a good stash of fuel and watch your speed, you should make it with little problem.

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The Last Standing Knight

I think that the answer depends on the reason that you're bugging out. You may find that you need heavier weapons and far more ammo than food and water, especially in a 30 mile traffic jam that's into it's fourth day. James Burke once said that we're only three meals from anarchy. Don't forget that if you're armed you can usually steal what you need to survive.

Oh, you didn't consider using your weapons to steal supplies? You're not much of a survivor then. Someone else will take yours.

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You are what you learn.

It's your own fault if you get stuck in a traffic jam.

Decide on your "trigger" requirements and stick to them. Leave before the mass exodus. People tend to stick around until the last minute, hemming and hawing, too comfortable to make the effort until the very last moment.

If it is a local problem you should leave before everyone else. If it is a national problem where will you go. The next town will be the same as you left. As for going to the boondocks to be safe just remember that if you got there the masses can also. People walked all over the world before cars and they will tomorrow if that is the only way to travel. Why not stay where you are? Larry

Leaving home is the last thing I would want to do. My tools, resources and neighbors are all there! I am just trying to think ahead about a "what if" that might drive me away from home and how to prepare. As far as leaving before everybody else, without question it would be my plan if there is advanced warning. I don't think anyone in New York got an advanced warning on 9/11.

What direction are these bugout places from you? If they aren't upwind of prevailing winds you might as well sit tight for the two scenarios you gave. A game cart for hauling Deer or Elk out of the woods can hold several hundred pounds and can double for moving someone too tired or injured to continue on their own. Most fold up to take up little space, you can find one around $100-$150. Get the kind with wheels that can't go flat, unless you want to add a bike pump and repair kit to the mix. I would throw the extra 40 pounds of a cart into the vehicle before I'd be leaving supplies behind, especially in a radiological/biological scenario where food and water found would be suspect.

50 miles on foot is going to be several days travel. So in keeping with using hunting gear, I'd also throw in a pop up blind for camoflaged shelter. Thats about another 20 pounds and $80. The pop up blinds are small, 68"x 68". Mine has proven rather durable in high North Dakota winds with minimal damage if left out in high winds.

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NRA Life Member

If I'm walking to known location, on a known or semi known route with a more or less known and do-able travel duration, I'll have a G17 + two magazines. But I cannot carry much more than that plus the little things like food and water and such. So I guess my answer would be 51 rounds of 9mm.

As a previous poster said, this is where the plastic nines really shine. So much easier to have the 17 rounds x 3 contained in easily stored/manipulated magazines vs. having loose rounds or bulky speed loaders that a revolver would need. Light weight, very good round count for the package size (efficient), and in a caliber that will stop just about any threat likely encountered in such a situation.

If walking is necessary consider a day backpack, a fanny pack, cargo pants, and a holster etc. to spread the weight around. I liked the golf cart idea but I bought cheap...mine has thin plastic wheels that are only good for the course.

So why does your "bug out cart" need to be brand spankin' new? Buy a used one (last years style? ) Then modify it to suit you. Get the "cross country model". One with big balloon tires.

I still think a bicycle is better. You can walk the bike, load your **** on it. Push it uphill, ride/coast it downhill or on level ground.

Charlie Sherrill, you reading this thread? Go read Caje's list and tell me what he left off. He's big on morphine and condoms, light on....guess what.

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Dick Burg

You are going to need a decent pair of pumps if you are going to make it in Vegas don't you think?

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Freedom above all else.

I believe that's, "Rooshian".

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I always take precautions

As I mentioned and bullshooter suggests, a small two wheeled cart; golf, range or whatever would extend your range and the critical water and food you can carry. Of course it can be abandoned if necessary.
I have pulled a partially canoe over rough portages with the bow strapped to a two wheel cart.
You might even consider a mountain bike or bikes. You could cover lots of ground, they too can be abandoned. Remember the VC moved tons of material over fairly rough terrain by strapping it to a bike and then pushing it.
I found that with the right pack I could hiike about 45# of camera equiptment around, it will sure slow you down though.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus