Hi,

I was wondering if there is certain tell-tale mistakes/bad form etc. for causing different Groupings?
In other words, if I find all my shots were grouping high, or low, or to the left, or to the right; are there certain things that cause the rounds to go one way or another?
Assuming that the handgun was originally sighted in dead on POA with a bench rest and then the shooter was making the errors freehand...

Thanks, Drew

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/downlo...ctionRight.pdf

Thanks for the link...this should Help!!!

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

You can read more about this in the US Army Marksmanship Manuals which are certainly worth the price of purchase.
These are the places to start looking, although it’s a complicated problem.
It might be time to find a coach to watch you as you shoot, a little time with a good coach may be able to quickly move you in the right direction.

One thing you can do on your own is WITH AN UNLOADED GUN, post a very small target on the wall at the right height so that when you are in your shooting stance you can line your sights up with the muzzle almost touching, now dry fire, which way are you pulling?, now see above.

As the old drill sergeant asked; “what is the last thing you saw before you closed your eyes?”

__________________
Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Thanks for the Help!

Thanks for the helpful reply!
I will definitely try the dry-fire exercise...and I am sure a shooting coach would be beneficial, (maybe in the future) right now I am going to have to rely on all you "Internet Coaches"
What I have found on my last revolver and now my new S&W 686, is I consistantly shoot about 3" to the right...now this is with the Factory Settings on the open sights.
I haven't shot it myself from a good bench rest...But if it came from the Factory with it sighted dead on Point of Aim for windage; than I am off...
At first I was determined it was me and I would get it corrected, but after shooting several sets (about 60 rounds) and being consistant on my grouping; I gave in and adjusted the sight to hit "my" POA...

Are the Factory Settings usally right on? Or is it normal to be off this amount? My range was 25 yards when I was doing this sighting in...and I was shooting 2 hand no rest.

Thanks, Drew

You need to shoot it from a good solid bench with sandbags or a suitable pistol rest, to eliminate any variables. Once you know "for sure" where it is shooting, then adjust the sights. Once the sights have been adjusted, do your shooting and use the chart to determine your problem, (if any). Guns are shot at the factory to prove functionality, not necessarily sighted in.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Go with the flow if your "groupings" are consistent, that's what adjustable sights are for. Just re-adjust until your group is on target.

It's those "flyers" that will drive you nuts.

Another thing you can try in addition to oldRogers dryfire exercise. Take a wooden pencil and wrap a couple of thin strips of masking tape around it until it is a sliding fit in the barrel. Sharpen it to a needle point, slide it down the barrel until it is against the breech face. Dry fire as described with the end of the pencil just an inch or so from the target. The firing pin will pop the pencil forward and it will leave a punchmark in the paper below the sighting target. The drill is to get a tight group of punch marks.

Note: adjust the tape so it doesn't exit the barrel. Just allows enough forward motion to let the point punch the paper.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

When using the sand bags with a Handgun, do you rest the handgun or just your arms on the bags?
I ask because it seems somewhere I read or watched, not to have the handgun touching the rest???
With my rifles, I always use a Good Rest to initially sight-in and then I know it's me if somethings wrong...
Seems to be aLot more variables to the Handgun and their much more sensitive to mistakes!

Thanks!
I am consistant...just felt wrong to move the sight off of center. But rather it's me or whatever, that's where I need it to hit dead-on POA
Cool drill too!!!

Thanks again, Drew

Strangely enough, I never heard this before, but it is certainly worth rememebering.

Thanks!

Are fixed sights “on” out of the box? Hard to say more or less I suppose. But eyes see things differently. If you are making a tight group at a distance, 25 yards is usually considered to be the spot, but exact distance is not important, (the tight group is) then more than likely the sights need adjusting.
I can tell you from my long experience in doing the wrong thing, that you should not move your sights until you try them from a rest.
It is better to take your shake and hold out of it, by shooting from a rest. Most do it seated, using bags, sand or shot, to support the barrel. You should IMO put a bag, towel, or something under the butt for more stability. I have a setup which allows me to put my cupped hand under the butt. When you have what you consider to be a good sight picture, fire five and check the group, a nice tight group to the right of the Aiming P. says adjust the sight and try again.
Some people who are flinching do not do so firing from a rest because recoil is less of an issue.
In any event, if possible get someone to stand near when you shoot and watch your eyes and hands to see if they see a momentary blink, twitch or whatever.
Flinching is not anything to be ashamed of; it’s just a twitch to be overcome.

__________________
Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Thanks for this helpful post...
I plan on putting a good rest together and shooting from it on my next outing! One way or another it will confirm what I need it too.

One thing worth mentioning, since there is quite a bit of hot gas around the front of the cylinder when you fire, upon occasion you will start a small fire, or at least burn holes in your bag covering. Therefore consider a disposable cover over the top of your rest. An old towel, a piece of blue jeans, most anything will do. Again my experience doing things wrong.
In the old cowboy movies I remember the hero taking long shots while resting his six gun barrel on his left forearm, trust me this is not a good idea.

__________________
Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Well, I took the time and made a good bench, with sandbags and a chair where I could really sight-in and see exactly if my POI groups was matching the same as when I have been shooting 2-hand no rest...
I confirmed what I wanted to, my shots/groups were exactly as I had been shooting with no-rest (well, maybe a little tighter)...So anyway, rather or not it's my eyes or whatever, I need to have the windage adjusted over to the left to hit dead-on with my POA.
Very glad that I took the time to do this...Thanks!
Also, I tried the drills and also had watched for any flinching and did not see any.

Also, Wow! I see what you're saying about hot gases and all; I was blowing fabric apart and melting things;

Thanks, Drew

I would be surprised if you weren’t just a tiny bit tighter when shooting from the rest.
If you want to stop the melt and burn, I suggest finding a small piece of wool it most likely will only scorch. Leather is good as well, but wool might be easier to find.

Keep your set-up, you will want to confirm your sights after adjustment, and it’s handy when you change ammunition.

__________________
Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus