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Old 12-21-2009, 11:52 AM
7shooter 7shooter is offline
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Default Viet Nam Vets

A friend who served in the Marine Corp in Viet Nam sent this to me. Hope this isn't too long for this forum. Every time I read it I find somethihg I didn't know.


" In case you Vietnam Veterans haven't been paying attention these past few decades after you returned from Vietnam, the clock has been ticking.


The following are some statistics that are at once depressing yet, in a larger sense, should give some a sense of pride.

"Of the 2,709,918 Americans who served in Vietnam; less than 850,000 are estimated to be alive today, with the youngest American Vietnam veteran's age approximated to be 54 years old."

So, if you're alive and reading this, how does it feel to be among the last 1/3rd of all the U.S. Vets who served in Vietnam? Don't know about you, but feels a little strange considering this is the kind of information we are used to reading about WWII and Korean War vets.

So the last 14 years we have been dying at a faster rate than most. Too fast, only a few will survive by 2015...if any.

Every day, 390 Vietnam Veterans die. So in 2190 days from today you will be lucky to be alive.

These statistics were taken from a variety of sources to include: The VFW Magazine, the Public Information Office, and the HQ CP Forward Observer -
1st Recon, April 12, 1997.

STATISTICS FOR IN-COUNTRY VIETNAM VETERANS:

A total of 9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era (August 5, 1964 - May 7, 1975).

A total of 8,744,000 GIs were on active duty during the war (Aug 5, 1964-March 28,1973)..

A total of 2,709,918 Americans served in Vietnam, this number represents 9.7% of their generation.

A total of 3,403,100 (Including 514,330 offshore) personnel served in the broader Southeast Asia Theater (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, flight crews based in Thailand, and sailors in adjacent South China Sea waters).

A total of 2,594,000 personnel served within the borders of South Vietnam (Jan. 1,1965 - March 28, 1973). Another 50,000 men served in Vietnam between 1960 and 1964.

Of the 2.6 million, between 1M and 1.6 M (40-60%) either fought in combat, or provided close support or were at least fairly regularly exposed
to enemy attack.

7,484 women (6,250 or 83.5% were nurses) served in Vietnam.

Peak troop strength in Vietnam: 543,482 (April 30, 1968).

CASUALTIES:
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.

Hostile deaths: 47,378
Non-hostile deaths: 10,800

Total: 58,202 (Includes men formerly classified as MIA and Mayaguez casualties). Men who have subsequently died of wounds account for the
changing total..

8 nurses died -- 1 was KIA..


61% of the men killed were 21 or younger..11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old..

Of those 47,378 hostile deaths in Vietnam:

29,869 were single

17,509 were married.
Average age: 23.1 years
Enlisted Personnel: 30,274.
Officers: 6,598 28..43
Warrant Officers: ,2,724
E1(Private): 12,520.34
11B (Infantry, Rifleman) MOS: 18,465

Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.

The oldest man killed was 62 years old.

Highest State death rate: West Virginia - 84.1% (national average 58.9% for every 100,000 males in 1970).

Wounded: 303,704

153,329 hospitalized

150,375 injured requiring no hospital care.

Severely disabled: 75,000,

23,204: 100% disabled;

5,283 lost or severely impaired limbs;

1,081 sustained multiple amputations.

Amputation or crippling wounds to the lower extremities were 300% higher than in WWII and 70% higher than Korea. (Expanded use of land mines)

Multiple amputations occurred at the rate of 18.4% compared to 5.7% in WWII.

AT THE END OF THE WAR

58,338 - Missing in Action

POWs: 766 (114 died in captivity)

As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.

DRAFTEES VS.. VOLUNTEERS:
25% (648,500) of total force in country were draftees.

66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII Draftees accounted for 30% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
Reservists: 5,977
National Guard: 6,140 served: 101 died.

Total draftees (1965 - 1973): 1,728,344.
Army Draft: 1,685,711

Marine Corps Draft: 42,633
Last man drafted: June 30, 1973.

RACE AND ETHNIC BACKGROUND:

88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian

10.6% (275,000) were black

1% belonged to other races.



Killed in Action

86% Caucasians

12% (7,241) were black;

2% Hispanic
1% belonged to other races.

70% of enlisted men killed were of North-west European descent.
14.6% (1,530) of non-combat death were among blacks.
34% of blacks who enlisted, volunteered for the combat arms..

Overall blacks suffered 12% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5% of the total population..

Religion of Dead: Protestant -- 64.4%; Catholic -- 28.9%;

SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS:

Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups..

Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent.

76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from the working class 75% had family incomes above the poverty level

50% were from middle income backgrounds.

Some 23% of Vietnam vets had fathers with professional, managerial or technical occupations.

EDUCATION
79% of the men who served HAD a High School education or higher.

63% of Korean War vets

45% of WWII vets had completed High School

DEATH BY REGION

South -- 31%

West --29.9%
Midwest -- 28.4%

Northeast -- 23.5%.

DRUG USAGE & CRIME:
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group. (Source: Veterans
Administration Study, 1995/National Association of Chiefs of Police)

Vietnam Veterans are far less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.

85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.
82% of veterans who saw heavy combat strongly believe the war was lost because of lack of political will.
75% of the public agrees it was a failure of political will, not of arms.

HONORABLE SERVICE:
97% of Vietnam-era veterans were honorably discharged.
91% of actual Vietnam War veterans

90% of those who saw combat say they were proud serve their country.
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.
87% of the public now holds Vietnam veterans in high esteem..

INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS

THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE "Been There": (Census Figures)
1,703,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,1995
9,492,958 Falsely claim to have served Vietnam (Census Stats., 2000)

1995 Federal Census
Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00.

Vietnam Veterans are dying at a rate of 390 per day.

During the most recent Federal Census (yr. 2000), the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,227. (This means that FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.)

The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country (Corrections and confirmations to this erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. All names are currently on file and accessible day and night.)

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy.

Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations.

From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on
leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers.
( Nixon Presidential Papers) "
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2009, 01:07 PM
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Default 6 yrs?

So I've only got a little less than six years to go? Geeze, that's the year I'm supposed to retire!!!

Interesting statistics.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:13 PM
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Thanks for the post. It was very interesting reading, and had quite a few facts that I was not aware of, and a bunch that were updated. Very informative article. Thanks from all of us that served.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:39 PM
emjayw emjayw is offline
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Interesting post. Lots of numbers I had no idea existed. I was 11B40, Sgt. E-5 with C-2-2, Mechanized Infantry in 68-69. I'm one of the lucky ones who made it home in pretty good shape. Still have dreams once in a while that'll wake me up. Life goes on. Thanks for the information. Mike in TX
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Old 12-21-2009, 03:55 PM
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Of my high school graduating class six of us went into the Marine Corps. Five of us serviced in Vietnam, three of us were wounded. All of us obtained the rank Corporal or above and all of us were honorably discharged. Three of us went onto higher education after our service. Two of us have passed from this place. One of us is an Alcoholic. Those of us still of this place receive Agent Orange news letters every so often from the VA.
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:17 PM
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7 Shooter---Great, But Scary Post

Rimfired---How did you get the C.I.B. as your avatar?--(Not how did you get the C.I.B.) , but how did you find out how to post it?

Last edited by rusty37874; 12-21-2009 at 04:18 PM. Reason: spelling typo
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for the info.....
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:03 PM
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In November, 1967, on a radio news program, it was reported that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff declared that the U.S. could
"win the war in thirty days" if allowed to.
At that time, I'd been back a few months. I felt at that time that
we, (servicemen), had been let down by Washington. I was too naive to
understand the political facts-of-life then. When my father went to war,
it was WAR, no-holds-barred, get-it-done.
I still believe we were right in donning our country's uniform. No
personal regrets, but I think of the fallen and wounded a lot, and it
still hurts.
Since we'll all be gone reatively soon, and kids are not taught real
history, that fiasco will be swept under the rug as just an annoyance.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted it said. TACC1
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:32 PM
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I feel quite fortunate to have made it this far.
Some health problems, but I have not given up yet!
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:02 PM
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Lots of the information is shocking. I see some VN vets wearing ball caps and they look like WWll vets in age. And to think most high school students never heard of VN. Hang on troops.
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:41 PM
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Great post - thanks for the information.
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:54 PM
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Excellant post - thanks for all the information.
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:28 PM
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Interesting read. Gee, I feel lucky to still be alive - I was in Korea long before I went to Vietnam. Not worried about giving away my age - I'm 76 and damn proud of it.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:00 PM
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Interesting post and thanks for putting it up.

I've run into a few of those rambos who 'were there' - not.
Talking to a friend the other night and he said he ran into a guy who thought Hue was about 20 miles from Saigon. But that guy was there right.
For the guy who mentioned we looked like WWII vets, I hear ya. I was there as a 21 year old. But that was 39 years ago.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:37 PM
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Thanks for this very well done post. I was there and I thank God that I have no real war stories to tell. 1st Aviation Brigade, HHC 214th Combat Aviation Battalion, Vinh Long Army Airfield, Vinh Long, RVN. Oct. 70-Apr. 71. I was 20 years old so, do the math......59 as we speak. I did a short tour because when I arrived in-country I had about 6 months and a few days left in the army. Their re-up speech was wasted on me and almost everyone else also. In retrospect I am glad that I was there but I have no respect for our leaders that sent us there knowing that it was a lost cause....LBJ, McNamara, Tricky Dick top the list.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
He was actually in the Army Security Agency, but since MI wasn't supposed/allowed to have people there, the unit there was called a 'Research' station.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:43 PM
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I wasn`t in Viet Nam,but the boy spent 18 months there on a helicopter
gun ship,my sister was a nurse there,(retired Lt.Col.) my brother in law
was killed there.My hat is off to all Viet Nam vets.
Dick
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:48 PM
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I forgot this happened to me until I read this post.

I went to Vietnam in 1967 when I just turned 18, I had enlisted at 17 and got out right before my 21st Birthday after spending a few months in the hospital at Devens.

Two years later, I was living with a couple of female room mates and one night they had a big party and some of the girls got drunk and stayed over. In the morning there was a knock on the door and when I opened it there was a 1st Lt. in full uniform from the Natick Labs and he said he was there to pick up his girlfriend.

He came in and I offered Him a cup of coffee while he waited and He started talking about being in Vietnam. I didn't say a word but he had no decorations and no unit patch. Then He started insulting me saying that any true American would be in the service.

I excused myself and went to my room and pulled out my suitcase from under my bed. I took out my dress uniform with the 101st Airborne patch and every else on it and put it on and walked back in to the kitchen.

Every one in the room was speechless, I had never told any one that I had been in the Army. I never put that uniform on again.

Last edited by Bugs100; 12-22-2009 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:02 PM
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not a viet nam vet, but am a viet nam era vet u s navy 1962-1968 and my salute to all that did serve
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:47 PM
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I was in 'Nam in 1965 at 20 years old. Prior to go over, I was stationed briefly at Camp Pendleton. We were suppose to fly out to Okinawa the next day but was bumped by another outfit.

The plane crashed in the San Bernardino mountains killing all aboard. All planes were grounded till the cause was found. We went by ship.

Over in "Nam, I stepped onto an anti-personal mine which didn't go off. I had my radio antenna shot off also.

The area that I was mostly in was heavily sprayed with agent Orange. So far, I don't have any problems and my kids are fine.

I really feel fortunate.

Go here for more info about the crash: http://ochistorical.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

2nd & 3rd Marine Div. Recon from 1963-1967

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Old 12-23-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TACC1 View Post
In November, 1967, on a radio news program, it was reported that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff declared that the U.S. could
"win the war in thirty days" if allowed to.
At that time, I'd been back a few months. I felt at that time that
we, (servicemen), had been let down by Washington. I was too naive to
understand the political facts-of-life then. When my father went to war,
it was WAR, no-holds-barred, get-it-done.
I still believe we were right in donning our country's uniform. No
personal regrets, but I think of the fallen and wounded a lot, and it
still hurts.
Since we'll all be gone reatively soon, and kids are not taught real
history, that fiasco will be swept under the rug as just an annoyance.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted it said. TACC1
We lost the war the day the country voted for Johnson over Goldwater. What the enemy thought we might do was more important that what we would actually do. It was that kind of war. President Nixon almost pulled it out of the fire but got distracted by the Liberals' impeachment attempt. At that point he lost all creds with the Reds. We should not be surprised by the "no win" policy. That was the Truman Policy and was announced shortly after WWII. That did not change until President Reagan became President. He defeated the Reds economically. To be sure, it ran up the national debt but it was a heck of lot better than exchanging nukes.

Thanks for this post. I'm on the wrong side of 70 so I suppose I am ahead of the curve.

Thanks,

Bill
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:48 PM
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Lots of facts I didn't know and enjoyed learning something tonight, thanks.
I'm a Viet-era vet but didn't serve there. I got TDY orders for the pull-out but was TDY elsewhere and they were recinded.
I was of the last draftees in 1973. My number was two so enlisted USAF Jan 2, 1973. Only 350 were drafted that last year so who knows.

I had many buddies that served there and some messed up mentally and from wounds there. None of them had a problem with serving but only our gov letting them down.

I have the utmost respect for those that served there and thankful they are finally getting some respect for that but do remember those that opposed our troops.
Two lowlifes did attempt to spit on me and called a baby killer at JFK airport when I rotated back CONUS. I never wore my dress blues again and am a little ashamed at that. Maybe one day I'll march in a parade or something and lend support to my brothers that took my place in Vietnam.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
We lost the war the day the country voted for Johnson over Goldwater.
It amazes me that so many people, including history books, say we lost the war. Brief facts are that we negotiated a peace agreement with NV in 1973 that the commies broke (surprise, surpise!) in 1973 after we pulled out of RVN. The commies then rolled through VN and into Saigon in 1975. The rest is history but please get the facts straight - we did not lose the war! The war could have been easily won if we had not stopped bombing Hanoi during the peace negotiations - this fact by the commies own admission years later after the war. Thank you war protestors and politicians!
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Old 12-24-2009, 06:28 AM
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It's said that the victors always write a war's history.
And they did...
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:26 AM
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Default Some things never change...

The statistics were interesting but this quote seem particularly relevant: "...Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy.

Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations..."

The politics of war never end. The lessons learned never seem to stay learned because we discount our historical experiences. To paraphrase Clausewitz: To win the war you must kill the enemy. While I don't believe arbitrarily killing non-combatants or innocent civilians should be in our rules of engagement, it is also unavoidable when the opposing team chooses not to wear uniforms or other means of identification. In hiding among the civilian population the enemy sets us up for bad things to happen to innocent civilians. Regrettably, these things occur during counter-insurgency operations. It's universally true.

460th Tac Recon Wing, Republic of Vietnam, 1967 - 1968
8th Tac Fighter Wing, Ubon, Thailand 1970 - 1971
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