I'll be turning 55 next month and while my uncorrected vision is still 20/25 at 30 feet, I am completely incapable of focusing on a handgun sight unless it's in daylight. With the temps in the teens, I am not going to be doing any shooting outdoors.

So, I've been thinking about putting a holographic sight on my 610 and have some questions.

1) Suggestions for vendors who offer suitable sight rails.

2) Cost is also a concern. Looking aroung the Net it appears that Eotech builds a great sight but they are a bit pricey. A much less expensive alternative is Aimshot but at 1/3 the cost of an Eotech I wonder if they may turn out to be something that is only suitable for a 22LR or paintball gun.

3) A local dealer has a 6 inch 1992 model 617 in their used showcase equipped with a Laseraim Illusion red dot sight for 495.00. I've looked it over and would rate it's condition at about 80% but did not try out the sight (no batteries). After seeing the price on the Eotech sights that 617 is starting to look like a real bargain. However, I sort of prefer the concept of the holo sights over a scope.

So, does anyone have any experience with Aimshot holographic sights? If so, how well did they hold zero and how did you like it?

Hi Scooter,
I don't have the Aimshot but I'll pass on info on what I have used.
I have a couple of C-Mores. They are more expensive and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
I also have a Barska holo for about 40.00 that I have moved around from gun to gun that has served me well. It is on a Buckmark that I use for bowling pins in rimfire class. Prior to this it was on a 25-2 and was shot at monthly pin matches for 2 years using unpublished amounts of Unique and 230 grain bullets. It has held up very well and still seems to have a lot of life left in it. It is one with a rectangular lens and most everyone makes one that looks like it.
I have a BSA holo with the round lens that was used for everything and setteled in at last on a spring air rifle.
I did scramble the BSA and was able to go into it and Loc-Tite it back to gether but it had a long and hard life before acting up. Spring air rifles are hard on optics
All of them hold zero.
I guess I'd have to recomend the cheap dot sights. Those mentioned above can be purchased between 30-50 dollars depending on sales through Natchez.
If you decide you like them you can always save up for something better.
I prefer the holos on anything I intend to shoot fast such as steel plates or pins. I do still prefer a tube dot sight when I shoot bullseye or precision sports.
Hope this helps
Good Luck
Mike

Two comments:
1. If you are 20/20 at distance, you can have a pair of single-vision "computer" glasses that focus at 4 feet or so made for you. Then your front sight will be sharp, and the target will be slightly fuzzy. I've been shooting at such fuzzy IDPA targets for many years over 686 iron sights.

2. The cmore sights are very good; the only negative is the initial price but it's all good after that.

I have a Bushnell Holosight on my 10/22. They're no longer offered by Bushnell but they are still available at somewhere around $300. They were made by Eotech The sight picture makes the aim point seem as distant as the target.

There is no parallax, the point of aim is wherever that little dot is regardless of the alignment of your eye with the sight and target. Both eyes can be kept open because there is no magnification on the base sight. Target acquisition is very quick.

There are cheaper holsights but I have no experience with them.

I would be looking for the smallest sight I could find. I have a Docter Sight on my Beretta 87 Target which has a factory rail. Weaver used to have rails for N frames. But the total package would be pricey (rail kit, mount and sight). Depending on the distance you will be shooting, you may want a larger or smaller dot (MOA). Too large of dot will cover the target, and I find the dot within a circle distracting on some type of targets. You also want to keep the sight close to the center line of the barrel. If you are shooting outdoors, you might look at a fibre-optic front sight. They light up pretty good in daylight for around $40.

I've done well with Aimpoints on both AR's and the lone Aimpoint I have on a M-41 barrel. Battery life is amazing and they seem to hold zero very well. I'd suggest trying a scoped handgun before going to all the trouble and expense to build your own. Optics accentuate every wobble....they are not for everyone. My M-41 Aimpoint is the 2 moa model, 4 moa is too large for precise work, especially if the target is small and the range extended a bit.

EoTechs get mixed reviews, especially in the AR community. Some claim they don't hold up...others do OK with them. Do some research before taking the eotech plunge.

FN in MT

Due to macular degeneration. I can longer focus open sights. I put a Burris "FASTFIRE" on one of my 629's. It is the smallest available that I could find and works great. After several hundred rounds it is still holding zero perfectly.

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Steve

I have a 460XVR that I set up with an Eotech... I wanted something I was sure would hold up to the recoil... I can endorse that setup 100%! You can find a great Weaver-type rail amongst those manufactured by Weigand - great workmanship and reasonable price.

Thanks for the replies. Especially to Jst1mr, that tip for Weigand solves one part of the equation. I was afraid I would end up having to order raw Weaver blank stock and spend a weekend using a mill at work modifying it to fit the 610. Now I have a source where I can just order one made to fit.

Anyone familiar with Aimshot, please chime in. Cost for these holo's runs about 140 dollars and at that price I have no idea how well they would hold up. One plus for the Aimshot is that the reticle can be changed simply by flipping a switch, it has 4 different reticles built in. Unfortunately, doing a google search for "Aimshot reviews" netted no reviews that I would trust. I had hoped that someone had posted on one of the firearms forums about this sight but didn't find anything useful. What did come up is that apparently a chinese knockoff sold under the brand name Osprey is copying the Aimshot appearance while producing product that is complete junk. Basically, it's another version of the Leupold conterfeiting scheme.

At this point I guess I'll just have to take a chance on the Aimshot Holo and see how it holds up. Good news is that the price they are selling them for it's not a backbreaker. Now I just have to find a retailer who has them in stock.

If it doesn't work out, the Burris Fastfire looks to be a good fallback and they are carried by a dealer about 10 miles from my house. I'll probably give them a visit this weekend for a look see and just may get that instead. However, from the reading I've done, reflex sights put the reticle plane of focus at the front sight and I really do need the projected image for the reticle to be further out.

PS; I have "computer glasses" unfortunately they won't fit under my shooting glasses.

Hi,

I've had a 1st generation Bushnell Holosight on my M29-5 since about 1998 or so. It has NEVER failed to hold zero, and at four clicks to 1" at 100 yards, like rifle scopes, it is wonderfully accurate in replicating zeros at various distances when I do this. Here it is, atop the hide from a rare piebald whitetail buck I took with this Holosight and .44 Magnum . . .



. . . and this season's top buck . . . the Holosight is much preferred by me vs. a scope on my Model 29!



I've also had a second generation Bushnell Holosight for many years on my Ruger MkII target pistol, on a B-Square no-drill mount, and it has been fine too. I bought it used on ebay for about $175 years back. This past year I took it off and put in on an AR-15 until I can get a new EoTech. Until I return it to the Ruger MkII, it will do a great job on the AR.



See if you can find a good, used Bushnell Holosight at a great price, and I think you'll be pleased with the results!

T.

I am an Eotech owner and fan. I shoot with mine from my .22 pistol to my Bushmaster AR-15. There are something like 22 or 24 total brightness settings and that is an absolute MUST. I shoot year 'round and in the snow and very bright, you can lose your sight easily. I just hit the bright button until I see it clearly. You can dim it way down for shooting at first or last light. I have a 552 which is run on 2 AA batteries. Also, when you turn it on, if you hit the dim button last, it will shut itself off in four hours. Hit the bright button last and in eight hours it will shut itself off. The 552 and 2AA batteries run somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 hours at the nominal setting. Look on the popular "lists" and you should find one used for @ $300-$350. Good luck...Sprefix

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Go big or stay home

Hi Scooter,
Here is a little follow up.
Both the Barska and BSA make an inexpensive copy of the Aimshot. Both of the ones I have also have 4 reticals.
Frank237 claims a 4 minute dot is too big for bullseye. I shoot with a 4 minute dot and do quite a bit better than with a 2 minute dot.(96%)
SAR4957 does not like the circle and dot but I prefer it for pins. That is not that Frank or SAR are wrong, but it shows that you need to see what works for you.
The Fastfires are good sights but I dont care for the fact that they dont have an adjustment for brightness.
The Bushnell Holo is great equipment but large for my taste.
Ultra Dot enjoys a good reputation and make a holo like you want too with four reticals if you want to invest in a better sight than the Chinese/Russian versions.
Hope this helps.
Mike

+1 for the Ultradot Sights, For a tube sight the Ultradot—Matchdot is used a lot, for a smaller sight the Ultradot L/T is good. Ultradot L/T

The higher end, EOTech, AimPoint and Docter are all very good. The AimPoint H-1 is a great sight for example.
For size, it mounts very low, clear sharp dot, and ruggedness the Docter is first class.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I can recommend the Ultradot Pan-A V for a holo type sight. I have looked at the way cheaper Chinese clones, but the Japanese made Ultradot has a crisper dot with simply better overall fit and finish. They also have a lifetime warranty. Mine is mounted on a 625 revolver. I like the flat top to the lens. You can use this feature as a reference point to minimize canting of the barrel when shooting off-hand. I can still shoot iron sights fairly well, but the bullseye guns wear red dots!

i have a model with the 5 inch barrel with a single ring custom mounted aimpoint scope ring set up with it mounted low over the bore unit with the ring base going back over the top of the regular sight channel set up and beening drilled and tap to go into the unit as need . ..
here is a bad picture i played around with one night on pimp my gun

Attached Images

sw model-460.tricked out revolver.jpg (17.4 KB, 189 views)

If you want to try a tube type Red Dot sight the Ultra Dot is very nice and not really expensive. Go to Home - Larry's Guns Inc. I have 4 of them and I like them very much. They are popular with bullseye shooters and will put up with being slide mounted on a .45 ACP 1911. THere are models with multiple dot sizes too.

Dwight

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Veritas et Humanitas

I have used the Aimoint, the EO Tech, Insight Technology, Zeiss Z Point, the Blaser Hit oint Pro, the Burris Fastfire, and the Docter Optic...

On a handgun I would recommend the Docter Optic.

It is a good piece of kit.

It is small and light, automatically adjusts for all light conditions, and has the "cleanest, roundest" dot of them all.

I have an EOTech on a 10/22, I tried it on my 629, but could never get used to the size and weight. A new EOTech is quite expensive.

UltraDot Ultradot L/T makes two small sights, these are neither the cheapest or most expensive, quality is very high, Customer Service excellent. Look at the L/T and the Pan AV models.
UltraDot matchdot is very popular with Bullseye Shooters. I have a L/T on a M41 Barrel and am very satisfied, although I like the Docter better, it is quite expensive.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

My department put Eotech sights on all its patrol rifles. If it were my money, I'd never buy one. I am no fan of push button battery operated sights. I just don't trust them.

I have used two Trijicon products, an RX300 that my brother has and an older ACOG that served a co-worker well for two tours in Iraq. If the RX300 has any disadvantage, it's the 6 minute dot that obscures much of the target beyond 100 yards. The ACOG has 4x magnification, but my co-worker said that never slowed him down during very close range engagements. His ACOG got pretty beat up but still functions perfectly.

Dave Sinko

Just a followup. Since I originally posted this I've acquired a 6 inch 617 with an older Laseraim scope type red dot (8-10MOA dot) and put a rail on the 610 and picked up a cheap 4 reticle Sightmark from Gander Mountain.

The Sightmark wouldn't hold zero on the 610 but it's just fine on the 617. One big plus for the Sightmark is that it's either a 2 or 4 MOA dot, not sure which but it's tiny incomparison to the Laseraim. Currently the 610 has the Laseraim mounted on it and it's a pretty heavy package, my guess is 55 ounces minimum.

One thing that I've found out is that mounting either type of sights on a rail causes a big seperation between the sight axis and the bore axis. This causes a LOT of convergence effect when shooting at closer ranges. Currently I have both guns sighted in at 100 feet and at 25 feet both shoot a good 1.5 inch low.

So, I've continued looking around and did see the Doctor reflex. Problem with the Doctor is that it's difficult to find mounts for it. One local dealer has a Doctor and they can't sell it because they haven't been able to get any mounts.

Good news is that I did find a sight very similar to the Doctor and it's been "evolved" by people who actually shoot guns. It's the J Point from JP Rifles and it's the ONLY small reflex I have found that actually has a rear sight notch molded into the case. That's right, a reflex sight that has been designed so that it can be shot Co-Witness with the iron front sight on the gun. Because of the thickness of the case, it would require a taller front sight blade to properly register with the POI, however in an emergency you can always aim low if the battery has failed. In addition, they have a direct mount available for the current S&W revolver rail pattern, so the sight axis to bore axis offset is greatly reduced.

BTW, both the Doctor and J Point are very close in size with the J Point being a bit lighter. One thing that some might consider a defect is that the lens for the J Point is acrylic instead of glass as on the Doctor, so it will be easier to scratch the lens. However, that use of an acrylic lens does cut the weight a touch and it won't be as prone to shatter in extreme cold as a glass lens would be. Also the dot size I intend to purchase is 3.5 MOA, however there is also a version with an 8 MOA dot available.

So, this years tax return will go to purchasing a J Point for the 610 and I'll probably be purchasing more as the budget allows. Last weekend I took my 617 no dash and 1988 vintage 67 into the machine shop at work and drilled and tapped both guns to the current mounting pattern. So, if I like the J Point on the 610, I'll add them to my 620, 617, and 67.

One final note, finding holsters for a rail equipped revolver is NOT easy. I've checked and, by reworking my current Galco retention holsters with an Exacto knife to provide clearance for the sight, I'll be able to carry with the J Point mounted without having to pay the price for a custom holster.

PS; sadly there will be no range time for me this weekend. I've been putting off doing my taxes long enough so this weekend it's tax time.

I had a Holo Sight on one of my 629's. I used it once. I couldn't miss-it took all the fun out of it.

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jj

IMO, rifle size red dots like Eotechs are way to big and heavy for pistols. Check this guy's site, he sells a little red dot called the RDP-II that has gotten good reviews and it's priced right at $139. It's very small and it comes with a mount for a picatinny rail.
It's the 3rd one down the page.
Tactical Night Vision Red Dot Sites Page

If you want to spend a little more money check the JPoint, it's even smaller and weighs hardly anything. I had one for a while and they're top notch.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.6.1.php

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!