I'm working my way toward a trade for a very nice Remington Rand 1911A1. In doing some research on other forums I saw several comments to the effect that shooting a 1945 USGI 1911A1 is a bad idea: "turning an heirloom into a paperweight", etc.

I'm looking for a gun to shoot. I shoot my old Smiths, and I shoot my Garands. Is it really not advisable to shoot a good condition USGI 1911A1?

(Also, if anyone is looking for a nice US&S, I know where one is.)

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

There is a difference in shooting and useing. If it is not in new unfired as issued condition you will not hurt it by shooting it a bit, but I would not subject it to the wear and tear of daily carry.

__________________
Stay safe people!

What Bob said 220.
Of course, I could never be a collector of NIB stuff either?

I can assure you that any M1911A1 you are likely to come across has already been fired, and fired, and fired, etc. It has also very likely been rebuilt at least once or twice in an Ordnance Depot somewhere. Remember, Colt produced their last M1911A1 for the Government in 1945, and it is unlikely you will find one that isn't already well worn.

I have a fairly large gun collection, but I'm not a collector, I'm a shooter so they all get shot. Collectors like to buy a gun and sit around and admire it's beauty so the better it looks the more valuable it is to them. Shooters like to experience the way a firearm feels and functions, the way it was engineered to fill the hand and operate as designed. And one big difference is, there are "collectable" guns I wouldn't give a nickle for.

So, if you are a collector, no! don't shoot it. If you are a shooter, go ahead and enjoy it.

sigp,

I find the guys at the 1911 Forum very helpful and might also have constructive opinions. I would suggest you post this question there also.

1911Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Bob in Indy

Hi Bob - that's where I've been lurking and searching. It was actually this quote that got me thinking:

"If you are gonna's shoot it there is a possibility of handing down a $500 paperweight to your offspring."

This was in reference to a perfectly serviceable gun of the vintage I'm thinking of getting. This is just one example, there were plenty of other posters espousing the same view.

I guess I was just surprised that a 65 year old 1911 in good condition would turn itself inside out from shooting plain old ball ammo. I would have never given it a thought. And since I assume every single one of these guns out there has been shot (probably a lot) it can't be a matter of turning an unfired gun into a fired one.

I figure if my Garand made in the same year can take all the .30/06 I care to shoot through it, the 1911 should be able to handle plenty of .45 ball. Am I missing something?

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

Only issue in my mind is springs. If your going to shoot it replace sear/trigger spring and adjust it. Also FP and recoil spring. Make sure FP channel is clean, so pin won't stick out when it should retract. I had a Systema go full auto one time when 50 year old sear spring broke.

__________________
SOS USA

I have a pretty nice, 95% or so, correct 1942 Colt 1911A1. I've had it 7-8 years and haven't shot it, not because I'm afraid to shoot it, but I have a big handful of other 1911's with batter triggers, better sights, beavertails, etc that I enjoy shooting much more than a USGI gun. I just see no reason to shoot it, but would certainly not be afraid to and would shoot the hell out of it were it my only 1911.

I have a very nice GI Colt 1911A1 that I have been shooting for about 40 years. I carried it as a truck gun through the early 80s. I still enjoy shooting it. Matter of fact, since you reminded me, I just might drag it out of the safe this afternoon and run a little hardball through it.

Shoot that thang!!

__________________
Georgia On My Mind

I shoot my Ithaca 1911A1 whenever the mood hits. But like I've mentioned before, when I bought it it was a $125 gun, retail. Bout same price as my Garand come to think of it.

I have been fortunate to have acquired a few GI .45`s over the years. My favorite is an all correct, almost perfect Ithaca,carried by a relative during WWII. Upon his passing the .45 reverted to me, It would be a disservice to not fire it a few times during the year. Usually I take it out on the anniversary of when I received it, kind of a tribute to him I guess.

If it is newer than 1924 you are ok shooting it.
If it is older than 1924, The entire slide is not hardened and you risk cracking the slide.
So there you go.
The parts wont wear out,
Replace the springs so the frame does not get beaten by the slide and go shoot it.
If you are intending to run 20,000 rounds through it, You may want a newer one to wear out.
Peter

__________________
Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

[Q
Sigp220.45,I have a Remington Rand1911 A1 that was made in 1945.

I carried it for many years while I was a LEO. I took it to PPC matches
and was one of the first to use a semi-auto at these matches. I did very well with it.Jim Cerrilo also used a semi-auto with me,he had a 9mm.I did change the spring on it.I carried hydra-shok 230 gr as my duty ammo. For PPC matches I shot 200 gr LSWC ammo.When I retired it retired. Get your .45 and shoot the heck out of it as it will take it.

Regards,

Bob












UOTE=sigp220.45;1254914]I'm working my way toward a trade for a very nice Remington Rand 1911A1. In doing some research on other forums I saw several comments to the effect that shooting a 1945 USGI 1911A1 is a bad idea: "turning an heirloom into a paperweight", etc.

I'm looking for a gun to shoot. I shoot my old Smiths, and I shoot my Garands. Is it really not advisable to shoot a good condition USGI 1911A1?

(Also, if anyone is looking for a nice US&S, I know where one is.)[/QUOTE]

I have a 1914 Colt that was arsenal rebuilt with A1 features. I genuinely believe the gun was never reissued after the rebuild. Its nearly perfect.
I shoot it whenever the mood hits me.

I have a 1943 Colt that my uncle picked-up on the field in France 1944, his offer to purchase was refused, so he became the proud owner. It was “accuracized” by many post armorers then sent on it first of several trips to Jim Clark for adjustable sights, than all of the known enhancements..
It has been shot and shot and shot some more. I have no doubt that it will still be shooting when it hits its 100 birthday.

__________________
Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I have had several WWII era 1911's. I shot all of them. They are rarely fully original, as they are all old and have a lot of miles on them. If a part broke, it would likely be a minor part that can be replaced with a vintage replacement part. It won't affect value at all.

That said, if you want a 1911 primarily to SHOOT, the old ones are not the best way to go. Most were built with very sloppy tolerances which is great for reliability but not conducive to accuracy. The trigger pulls are usually not very good. The sights are small and hard to see. If you buy one that is still original and begin to shoot it a lot, the shortcomings as a shooter will soon become apparent and modifying them to make them better shooters WILL wreck their value.

Plus, as you have probably noticed, clean ex-military 1911's are getting pretty pricey. For less than that kind of money, you can buy a modern Colt, S&W or Springfield Armory that is probably going to be a far better shooter and not have to worry about breaking anything and sinking your investment.

On the other hand, if you just want a cool old artifact of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam, that you can shoot sometimes, buy an old one. Nothing wrong with that.

I came from a time you either shot them or put in drawer and never looked at it again this how much its worth was never thought of and they were only worth $32 new.course that was two weeks pay.I would get swc target loads I donot shoot jacket in mine.I also reload and have a light target load thats good to 75 yds.I am a great believer in reloading.

When I was last armed with a 1911A1 in the military, (about 1986) the newest pistol was 41 yrs old. What was fairly uncommon was a pistol that had a slide & frame from the same mfg. Mine had a Ithica slide and a Remington Rand frame. (internal parts? who knows)

I wouldn't worry about putting "too much wear" on it. Like someone else said, installing a new recoil spring might be a good idea.

I have a 1918 Colt that I have shot with no problems. It has arsenal marks on it but my father got it in the 40's. I would not shoot it a lot.

I have a relatively new Springfield 1911A1 that I shoot at targets.

Much good advice on this thread concerning shooting/collecting. Pred's especially re; the pre '24 time frame.
I both shoot and collect and have a rule I follow:
If I buy an older firearm in NIB condition, I keep it that way and try hard to find a shooter of the same type to use.
If I buy a vintage firearm that has seen use, I shoot it.
Using a fine old previously fired gun will not hurt it, abuse/neglect will kill it.
Personally tho, the thought of taking a 50 or 60 year old firearm in unfired condition out and shooting it makes me cringe. It's been in a time capsule for all those years and that, to me, is the way it should stay.
Others disagree, and that is fine, that's what makes this hobby great.
Enjoy, and post pics when you get it!
RD

__________________
Got a Phd from Hard Knocks U

When I was Armorer of a Headquarters battery we had 5, consecutive serial numbered, Remington 1911A1's. We had 11 1911A1's all together so I was able to swap parts around to get all the correct parts back on the Remingtons. I tried and tried to come up with a legal way to own those pistols. I even offered to do a Report of Survey, and pay the government what they said each one was worth on the property books. Heck, they were switching over to the M9 anyway and as this was the Clinton era those Remingtons probably got melted down.

Yes, I would have gladly paid the $55 each the Federal Government said they were worth. ;D ;D

Shoot it! I had a 1911 (all original and U.S. Property marked) built in 1915 that a friend of my Dad (and a friend of mine) carried (and used) in France during WWI, as a member of the Wis NG between the World Wars, and again through WWII when he was reactivated. Ken gave the gun to me some time in the late '70s or early '80s, along with his issue holster from WWI, and I shot it a reasonable amount, never any problems. As earlier mentioned, the pre-1924 slides were a bit prone to developing cracks, though mine never did. Sadly, that gun (along with a lot of others) was stolen and never recovered. I recently purchased a 1911 built in 1914 (serial number initially shows early 1913, but it was one of the first runs of 1911s built by the government at Springfield Armory, about 3,000 pieces, as I recall), all original frame and internal parts and original barrel, but with a well-fitted commercial slide (appears to be early 1950's construction). It shoots well, and I have no hesitation in shooting it, though I shoot my modern 1911s more. One recommendation, use ball ammo only, if it is original, the feed ramp and certain other features do not render use of hollow point, or even many semi-wadcutters, reliable. I would also recommend using only standard pressure loads. Enjoy your new gun and speculating on its history!

I have a 1918 Colt 1911. It was refurbished in 1943 at Rock Island Arsenal and have been used in two world wars and who knows how many other trips around the world. It is in very good shape and loves 230gr Ball ammo. I don't shoot it as much as I use to now that I have a Springfield Armory National Match. I still have no fear of harming it by shooting it since it was given to me when I was 18. I am a firm believe that old guns should be enjoyed best by shooing them. That is why they where made.

The new Auto-Ordnance Army WW 2 copy 1911a1 is a very close clone to the original 1911. It's an awesome 1911 and affordable.

Holy thread resurrection!

I feel obligated to update this now that it has risen from the dead.

I did indeed acquire a WWII 1911A1 - an Ithaca, but actually the dreaded
"mixmaster" since the serial number indicates the frame is a Remington Rand.



Somewhere in its life it got itself reparkerized, further establishing its utter worthlessness in the eyes of the cognoscenti.



Given its absolute lack of redeeming virtues, I have been shooting it as much as possible to bring on its "paperweight" status. So far no luck, but I plan to keep trying!

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

SHOOT IT. that's what they were made for. I have one RR that was sold thru the DCM in 1961 that doesn't look like it has been fired since it left the factory. it is in the box with all the shipping documents. I have never fired that one, but all my other A1s and my one 1911 get shot. my 1911 will be 100 when my grand son graduates high school and shooting it will be one of his presents. lee

Enjoy that 1911.

You're paying tribute to all those that carried it before you did.

__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner

A few years ago I bought my first 1911. I wanted a USGI but didn't buy one because I wanted to shoot it.....a lot.

A USGI slide is not 100% heat treated like the new ones.

Your money, your call.

__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

I had a DCM RR that I refinished back in the 60s and put decent sights on, used it for IPSC. Along about 1978 the frame cracked at the slide stop pin. I actually got Colt to replace it with a Gold Cup frame and put the original RR serial number on it. Most of the time since it has worn a 1970s Colt .22 conversion kit, so it's a dead ringer for a .22 Gold Cup. About the only original parts in the gun now are the grip screws. I think.

However my 1943 parkerized DCM RR is stock, and gets fired about once a year with hardball on its "anniversary".

My stock 1913 one gets fired a few rounds every time I watch "The Wild Bunch".

The young whippersnapper of the bunch is a SA Milspec in stainless. Good shooter,too.

I have a Colt 1911, a Springfield 1911, a Colt 1911A1, Rem Rand and Ithaca. I have shot them all and wouldn't hesitate to shoot them again. I don't think I'd want to put 1000 rounds of +P through them,but a moderate amount of hardball or cast bullet handlaods will do no damage.

I would get new springs, perhaps an extra barrel or two.

My first .45 auto was a Remington Rand that I bought from a guy who
had gotten it through the DCM. This was about 1967 and he had two
.45s so he said he would sell me one of them for what he had in it,
$22.50. Needless to say I didn't hesitate. I shot a few hundred
hardball rounds and a couple hundred cast bullet RN handloads through
it before foolishly trading it in on a satin nickel Colt Combat
Commander .45 in 1974. The Commander taught me a lesson about
accuracy, or lack of, compared to the Government model. I sold it and
bought a Series 70 Government model which I still have. I have always
regretted trading off the Remington Rand. Back then most of the .45s
floating around were ex GIs and people shot them regularly. I don't
see any reason you can't shoot your gun but they aren't going for
$22.50 these days so I wouldn't try to wear it out if it were mine.

Since this thread originated in 2010 I'm assuming the gun was bought and shot so that's that.

Information I've picked up on the 1911 forum indicates the weak point is the slide cracking due to the heat treating processes used thoughout their history.

They give a general lifetime of slides of approx. 1,000 shots for WW1, 10,000 shots for WW2, 100,000 shots for modern.

Once a slide is cracked it is toast so if the gun is an historical piece it's best not to shoot it. If you must replace your recoil spring and don't do a lot of shooting with it. You are rolling the dice.

still have a couple of 1911A1's...... A C-series Colt (precedes the series 70's) & an old USGI US&S that for some strange reason was sent to RIA for a park job....... it's all US&S and is in near mint from "rebuild"& is so proofed on the frame below & behind the serial number (if that's the word I want to use) a knowledgeable friend said it was all US&S as far as he could tell......... We shoot & carry the C-series...... the US&S remains in the safe.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot one. The only potential issue is the slides are only spot heat treated around the slide stop notch, they aren't entirely heat treated. They may also be heat treated around the muzzle end where the bushing goes, I don't remember.

Keep the standard 16.5# recoil spring and all should be good. With standard pressure ammo, 16.5# is the correct spring weight and anything heavier is unnecessary and batters the slide when it returns.

As others have mentioned, they have all been shot a lot already and probably have been through multiple rebuilds.

__________________
Common sense isn't so common.

I bought one with a filed off property mark as the price was right and collector value nil for the frame. The frame is 1917 and the slide is 1918. Using the tiny sights gives the experience of what the guys used "back in the day". New main, recoil, and firing pin springs were added. If the slide cracks it is a small loss to the world. The enjoyment of shooting it remains.

__________________
Dennis

I bought this old Ithaca M1911A1 just before I entered the Army in 1961. While in the Army, I had a master gunsmith accurize it and re-blue it. I shot it in competition and carried it occasionally on active duty. In the National Guard I shot it and carried it. The Patridge front sight flew off unexpectedly during a string of fire (try getting a sight picture without a front sight!), so I replaced it with a ramp style that was both staked and silver-soldered in place. I have certainly put thousands of rounds through this particular pistol, and who knows how many rounds had been fired through it in the course of two wars before I got it. I've replaced some springs and kept it well lubed, but that's about it. It will still shoot rings around any other .45 I own. With prudent maintenance, replacement of springs and proper lubrication, these guns will last a long time.

I have shot this one a lot, because it was a dog that has been resurrected, but my other GI guns in good shape have become collector's items and have been retired from shooting to maintain their great condition for future generations. I'm certain that they also would take a lot of shooting without serious problems, but I choose not to do that.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I would buy a spare slide or two. A modern one will fit nicely and function properly.

My match pistol is serial numbered C 33. I bought it in the 1960s from a police lieutenant who had accurized it, installed Micro sights and fired it in competition for almost 20 years. He had shortened the recoil spring for wadcutter loads; I never heard about the slides cracking so I put in a GI 45 recoil spring and in the two years I was on an Army pistol tem, I must have put 10,000 rounds of hardball down it. I still shoot it occasionally, with wadcutter loads.

Attached Images

L1030007 (1).jpg (47.1 KB, 17 views)