Whats it worth ?

Bigmoss · #1 06-20-2012, 12:19 PM

I was hoping someone could tell me what this gun I inherited from my Grandfather might be worth. There is no one local here that is able to help me.

It's a 1916 Colt New Service 45 Im told. It has the matching original leather case. The bottom of the handle in engraved with the soldiers name that it was assigned he was a Col. and the leather case has the same burned into the leather. The gun is in awesome shape no rust or pits or anything.

Just hoping someone that knows more about these than me can give me an idea what I have here.

29aholic · #2 06-20-2012, 12:26 PM

Probably ought to post this in the lounge. What is stamped on the bottom of the butt?

Bigmoss · #3 06-20-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29aholic

Probably ought to post this in the lounge. What is stamped on the bottom of the butt?

Its has the persons name that is was given to and that used it during the war, its says his name and 22 ieme which is french for 22nd so I assume his unit. And the leather case has the same burned into the leather.

If a mod wants to move this to the lounge thats fine with me.

Sebago Son · #4 06-20-2012, 12:31 PM

That appears to me a New Service, Second Model. It has a commercial finish which appears to be in pretty good condition in your dark photos.

This is a very common configuration and model, but desirable.

If origional and corrrect (verified only by personal examination) I would peg it's full retail value with the British holster to be around $1600.

This is not a solicitation to buy. My New Service days are over. If there's one thing rarer than a good Colt DA, it's Colt DA Collector with money he's willing to part with.

Actual selling price in these depressed market conditions would probably be lower. Don't be suprised if you get counter offers around $1200 or less. I sold one nearly identical to yours 7 years ago and only got $700.

Good Luck,

Drew

Bigmoss · #5 06-20-2012, 12:35 PM

Sorry the leather case has

LT.Col Desrossier
22. BATT

And the gun butt has his name engraved in the butt again with 22 eme. Bn. CF

Bigmoss · #6 06-20-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebago Son

That appears to me a New Service, Second Model. It has a commercial finish which appears to be in pretty good condition in your dark photos.

This is a very common configuration and model, but desirable.

If origional and corrrect (verified only by personal examination) I would peg it's full retail value with the British holster to be around $1600.

This is not a solicitation to buy. My New Service days are over. If there's one thing rarer than a good Colt DA, it's Colt DA Collector with money he's willing to part with.

Actual selling price in these depressed market conditions would probably be lower. Don't be suprised if you get counter offers around $1200 or less. I sold one nearly identical to yours 7 years ago and only got $700.

Good Luck,

Drew

Thanks for the input, Im actually not looking to sell I own allot of guns and am keeping this guy, I just have no idea what a gun this old was worth so was just curious.

I welcome any other input as well !

29aholic · #7 06-20-2012, 03:34 PM

Actually not to argue with Drew, I think it's a first Model as the barrel does not have a shoulder to it.
When I asked about the butt I meant the area around the swivel.

Bigmoss · #8 06-20-2012, 03:39 PM

What I wrote above is what's engraved each side of the swivel

29aholic · #9 06-20-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmoss

What I wrote above is what's engraved each side of the swivel

Then the serial number is missing, be careful.

Sebago Son · #10 06-20-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29aholic

Actually not to argue with Drew, I think it's a first Model as the barrel does not have a shoulder to it.
When I asked about the butt I meant the area around the swivel.

Curt, operating from memory here as I haven't messed with New Service guns in 10 years or so, but I think that the difference between the "First Model" and the "Second Model" was an improvement in the yoke design (to strengthen it), and mild reshaping of the frame and grip angle. Both the 1st and 2nd models used the Single Action Barrel profile. This was so until the "Improved" model which became the familiar 1917 as seen below...

This is the last New Service pattern gun here in the vault.

It actually belongs to my son, Ryan and was carried by a family friend in the first Gulf Wars.

Drew

29aholic · #11 06-20-2012, 05:54 PM

Drew as I understand it, the 1st Model had the shark fin front sight with no shoulder at the frame, the 2nd had the same front sight but with a shoulder like yours, and the thired model had more of a ramp sight with the shoulder like the one below (a refab 1909)

I am not sure about other mods.

OP the but of your gun should have looked like this (or similar)

OFT II · #12 06-21-2012, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29aholic

Then the serial number is missing, be careful.

Curtis, the serial number on New Service revolvers is on the frame. You have to open the cylinder to see it.

29aholic · #13 06-21-2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFT II

Curtis, the serial number on New Service revolvers is on the frame. You have to open the cylinder to see it.

Thanks
All I have had have benn military guns and I always look for the number on the butt.

feralmerril · #14 06-21-2012, 10:32 AM

Be clear on the caliber here. Is it .45 acp, 45 colt or more likely .455? I also had a identical one many years ago that was .455 but reamed to 45 colt.

David LaPell · #15 06-21-2012, 11:19 AM

My New Service is a later commercial version with nothing at all stamped on the butt, there is a group of later guns like mine in a 1000 serial number range with the earlier straight barrel and later style frame. Some of these guns have lanyards in them, some do not. The number is in the 336xxx range. The serial # is only visible when you open the cylinder. Does it actually say .45 Colt on the barrel or is there a spot where a number was kind of blanked out, I have seen .455's like that.

feralmerril · #16 06-21-2012, 12:21 PM

I suspect it was originaly .455 to be a military gun in europe assigned to some french outfit. I bet some decendant of that officer would give a lot for that gun!

heatheroo · #17 06-21-2012, 12:44 PM

I have a New Service that was originally .455 Eley and then rechambered to .45 Colt. About the only downside is that there isn't enough gap between the cylinder and frame to accomodate moon clips for .45 ACP

Texas Star · #18 06-21-2012, 01:36 PM

I think this is a .455. The holster is what I'd expect to see in a British or Canadian unit. New Service .455's were pretty common in Commonwealth forces in WW I. I've seen several with officers' names engraved on them. Officers then bought their own sidearms; they were personal property. By no means did all buy Webleys. When they did, some were commercial models, finished better than the "issue" model, although the latter could also be bought "out of stores." If a govt . owned gun was sold, it will have opposing Broad Arrow markings, indicating sale to an officer.

This Colt could have been acquired by a French officer, but more likely a Canadian from Quebec.

Where does the OP live? He calls the holster a "case", which is British terminology.

Don't store the gun in the holster, as acids fom tanning the leather may damage the gun's finish.

If the owner was Canadian, he may be traceable. At least, his unit would be traceable. (Not sure which records the French keep.)

The first New Service model, made from 1897-1905, looks more crude and less evolved than later guns. The crane is more narrow. From 1905-1917 or so, the new frame was used, but the barrel wasn't tapered until the M-1917 appeared, from what I've seen. Commercial guns then used that barrel profile. There were minor cosmetic variations throughout the span of manufacture. Both hard rubber and wooden grips were used as standard, the wooden grips becoming standard about 1928. I think the rounded cylinder release was also normal by then.

All of the .455's that I've seen were made for service in WWI, but the caliber was available before and after, and some probably did sell in the Commonwealth nations. I know of one in .45 Colt that was used to kill a sloth bear in India in the 1930's. The lady who killed the bear wrote it up for a Colt booklet published then, "Colt on the Trail." She used her husband's gun.

I owned a commercial .45 Colt made in the mid 1930's, and it was beautifully made and extremely accurate. It also shot right to the sights at 25 yards with Winchester or Remington 250 grain lead RN ammo. It is my experience that most Colts with fixed sights need the barrel turned slightly to get on target. (Col. Chas. Askins had to re-sight almost all of the New Service .38's that he ordered for the USBP in the late '30's. I asked him why he didn't just order Heavy Duty S &W's instead. He told me that the S&W reps were priggish snobs and he just liked the Colt men better!)

If the OP has fired this gun and is a competent marksman, how does it shoot? Are you using Fiochhi or Hornady ammo?

Someone who collects Colts or who collects British and Commonwealth militaria may be the best customer if the gun is to be sold. Personally, I'd keep it and prize it highly, as both a good gun and a priceless piece of history.

BTW, the RCMP issued the New Service in BOTH .45 Colt and in .455 from 1905-1954. The Royal Canadian Navy bought some in 1940 in .45 Colt and issued FMJ ammo for them, loaded by CIL/Dominion. I've recently seen boxes of that ammo Online. Those .45's and the RCMP guns all had 5.5-inch barrels, as did all of the .455's I've seen.

I am impressed with the condition of this gun and holster. Thanks for posting. You may also wish to post on the Colt forum. But I think I've told you most of what they can.

Texas Star · #19 06-21-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heatheroo

I have a New Service that was originally .455 Eley and then rechambered to .45 Colt. About the only downside is that there isn't enough gap between the cylinder and frame to accomodate moon clips for .45 ACP

You don't want them, anyway. The cylinder throats and the bore are for .455 bullets. That is correct for a .45 Colt, but not for the .452" .45 ACP.

Texas Star · #20 06-21-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmoss

Sorry the leather case has

LT.Col Desrossier
22. BATT

And the gun butt has his name engraved in the butt again with 22 eme. Bn. CF

Look at that CF marking. I think it means Canadian Forces.
I could be wrong, but the whole outfit looks like he was a Canadian from Quebec. I think he wa an artillery officer, and his Battery is indicated. But that can easily mean Battalion. Check records via the authorities in Ottawa.

Keep in mind that some BRITISH officers had French-sounding names, as they were descended from the Normans. 1066 and all that, you know... my own heritage probably includes that aspect.

I would very much like to see really sharp photos of all markings on this gun.

Bigmoss · #21 06-22-2012, 05:37 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys I'm just out of town until Tues but just checked in quick. Yes I am Canadian and yes the gun was from Quebec. I'll get some better quality picks up when I get back. The old box of shells I have say .455 it the gun shoot really really well and yes I'm my opinion for the age of the gun the holster and gun are spotless.