I would appreciate any advice on body armor. I am thinking about buying some for when I have to go work on the shady side of town. I see that Fleabay has some slightly used Second Chance Level 2 on sale for a good price. Another reasonable priced brand is made by Miggett Aerospace. Do any of our law enforcement forum members have any advice?
Thanks in advance!
Steve

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Steve

Seems to me I remember reading or hearing something about body armor having an expiration date.... might be worth checking in to.

Steve, suggest you track down Forum member GatorFarmer. He doesn't post much of late but he's surely the resident expert on "civilian" body armor.

Be safe.

PS:

Where are you GF?

You might also P-mail RichCapeCod concerning "expiration dates." I believe that he knows a few things from NYPD tests on the subject.

BulletProofME.com Body Armor / Bullet proof Vests

Poke around on this site to get a flavor of what you want.

(I am not associated with these folks, picked up the link here in the Lounge)

The accepted "rational replacement policy" has always been 5 years; most manufacturers use that period (5 years from date of manufacture) as their warranty period.

The biggest problem with used vests is that there have been some significant material problems over the years. Most notably, Zylon degraded much faster than expected, and resulted in some failures in field use. The NIJ (National Institute of Justice) ended up scrapping their test methods and ballistic standards. They were finally reinstituted under an interim rule, and now a final rule- so, even when buying brand new armor, there are different levels of testing certification (which is different than the different levels of ballistic protection- such as Level IIA, II, IIIA, and III).

There are now only a handful of materials used to manufacture certified vests, but I've noticed that even major manufacturers, distributers, and retailers seem hesitant to actually advertise what materials they use. My recommendation is to stick with the basic tried-and-true Aramids- Kevlar and Twaron. A bit heavier than some of the newer fabrics, but they have a great track record.

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LEO since 1981.

Thanks guys!
Steve

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Steve

Another rule of thumb when picking a vest is to have one that will stop whatever you are carrying.

The mover's took the laptop. Fortunately, the business center computer at the hotel here doesn't block gun sites the way some software does. (I'm in the process of moving to SC, hence I'm not around much these days.)

Smith Revolver Cop offered some very good information. Vests don't per se "go bad", but warranties in general expire at the five year point. This can make used armor problematic since you don't know if it was subject to a recall, improperly stored, dry cleaned, run through the washer on hot with the dog's blanket, etc. It's even more problematic to buy used hard armor, since ceramic rifle plates can develop cracks (hence the "handle with care" somewhat ironically printed on the covers in the Army), and the plastic (HDPE, etc) ones can be degraded by high temperatures - such as left on the wrong part of a vehicle in the hot sun in Central Asia.

Many departments though issue or have vests that don't necessarily get worn day in and day out during the five year warranty period. Sometimes, particularly with tac armor, they sit on shelves and gather dust. Old vests are sometimes donated to police academies, poor departments, Third World departments, or sold at auction as surplus by cash strapped agencies.

While noting the above, armor - particularly if it is good old low tech Kevlar 129 - is both more and less durable than widely assumed. The good folks at Bullet Proof Me.com and other internet folks have done back yard science that shows that even many older, beat up, panels have survived impacts.

However, the NIJ recently revamped their standards and made them a lot tougher. Velocity thresholds have increased across the board, particularly owing the popularity of the .357 Sig and hotter 9mm rounds in LE service I'd imagine. The NIJ has also increased the number of tests done, now simulating wear and tear, immersion, etc, if memory serves. They also now require far more test samples, which increases the cost to have the testing done (it isn't free, the maker has to pay substantial fees). Last I knew, though I haven't kept up the last few months owing to one thing and another, Safariland was the only maker thus far certified under the new standards, though other makers may likely have subsequently gotten certification.

The "less durable part" stems from the substantial differences between NIJ testing methods, let alone those used by the military, and those used in back yard science. Military grade armor, generally external wear tactical in shape, is made to a different - higher - standard than LE equipment which is why it costs more. Creases in armor, even air pockets, can have an influence on performance.

I'm actually due for an upgrade soon, since I want to get a Thor's Shield vest from the good folks at Point Blank Body armor. This is a new type of vest that is taser resistant and will also resist (to a certain point ) other energy weapons - stun guns, Zeta Reticulan beam guns, etc.

I've worn armor - until recently daily - since 1998. It was handy stuff as a slum lord. Owing the the popularity of the Hi Point carbine in 9mm in my old 'hood, I have always tended to purchase and wear IIIA vests. Originally, IIIA was popular mostly with tactical teams, since in the days before the M4 carbine replaced the MP5 as the cool ninja too, the IIIA armor was the stuff you wanted to stop higher velocity 9mm threats such as subgun velocity ammo. However, it also reduced the blunt trauma that you'd experience.

With armor, you pay more for lighter and thinner. Comfort costs money. My original vest in 1998 was a top of the line Point Blank model, even being 1998 technology, it was lighter, thinner, and more comfortable than my current Second Chance IIIA that cost several hundred less and was late 2006 technology (I periodically replace my armor, if nothing else, the concealables will start to stink, though current technology is easier to clean and destinkify than 1998 technology).

I also tend to keep tactical armor around, complete with rifle plates. The rifle plates are what is known as hard armor as opposed to "soft" like in a concealable. Standard soft body armor will only stop handgun rounds, though does help a bit against certain stabbing/slashing attacks and blunt impacts (and reportedly even lightning strikes and car crashes).

It took me about a month, maybe a bit more, before I stopped noticing my first vest as chafing and being restrictive. Since women used to wear corsets as a fashion thing, which were much worse, it's certainly something that you can get used to. However, if you're going to wear it regularly, you need to be dedicated to getting used to it. Even for occaisional use, get used to it so that discomfort doesn't make you leave it behind when you shouldn't.

Galls often has good deals on armor as do the Izzies where Zahal and others sell Marom Dolphin (sp?) tac vests and plates relatively cheaply. An entry level acceptable Galls vest can probably be had for maybe 250 for a low threat level or 350ish for a IIIA (which owing to higher velocity ammo these days is becoming the most common choice). A really good light weight famous maker vest will run between 800 and 1200 dollars or more. Military type armor can cost as much as three or four grand for a really, really, nice set up under certain circumstances. But that price point is for the folks worried about 7.62x54R AP from snipers and friendly fire from the hard to stop black tip M955 5.56mm (which the exact data on is actually classified, but reportedly pokes holes as good as, or even better than, the old M2 .30-06 black tip AP and has even spawned suggestions of reclassifying rifle armor to designate the plates that are multi hit designed to stop it as level IV + to seperate them from the official level IV designation which only means a plate will stop a single round of M2 perfomance type ammo).

Feel free to email me or call me if you need further help, I can tell you a few places to look and give you some idea of cost/comfort comparisons.

The Galls catalog will also have instructions for measuring yourself for armor, but I'd generally get mine a bit longer than they suggest since I didn't/don't wear a large duty belt and wanted more cover on my lower abdomen.

Thanks Gator! Good to see you're still alive and thrashing around!
Steve

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Steve

As always, great info from GF.

I second the thought he's still chomping around.

Be safe.