Let's see what the Gov. does.He has a chance to veto it.
Gov.Christ is looking for a senate seat and probably will veto.
Why is it the teachers fault the little darlings are not doing well?Maybe the parents should be fined for the other 16 hours of the day that their kids are at home or most likely running the streets and not doing the right thing.
How in the world did we come to this?
I see my neighbors kid missed the bus this am and Super Dad didn't bother to put him in the car and take him to school.Is that the educators fault?I tired of this blame somebody else game.
Also was it the schools fault that the brat is a bully and acts out in school?
Yea,I'm mad 'cause I gotta go to work and worry if my property is safe.I'll guess that's gonna be my fault too.

Poor little misunderstood kid.

D.G.

I agree with you that the home is the first place where kids learn, but taking the other side just for sake of discussion I think there should be reviews and accountability in the teaching profession. I don't know if the proposal that passed in the Florida House is the answer, but the school administrators are letting a lot of issues slide at some schools in our area. A couple of examples from personal experience with my grandchildren: one granddaughter is a senior and she has told of jokes and comments that some of her teachers have told in class that wouldn't come close to passing on this forum. Another case involved a grandson being bullied with personnel from the school ignoring the situation.

As is true with all business in order to succeed it needs strong leadership, perhaps if the governor signs this bill it will be the beginning for a better future. If he does veto it for political gain then we are back to the leadership question.

Thanks for starting this thread DG, lets hope we here from many of our members including teachers so we can get a feel for how others feel about the problem.

Good points and it aint just here in Fla.
I do agree that the teachers are sometimes pretty lame but consider that their hands have been tied for a long time now.all they can do is notify the parents/breeders and if they do nothing then they have to wait 'tlll the kid does something really bad and gets caught.

D.G.

Someone watch my house I gotta go earn my keep.
I'll be back later to see what every one thinks.

D.G.

It is absolutely our fault that students do not make AYP on standardized tests. Just like it is the doctor's fault if your total cholesterol is over 200. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

After thirty years of dealing with parents, teachers and kids from an administrator's perspective, I am happy to stay out of this one. Clark Gable pretty well summarized my present feelings in that final scene in "Gone With the Wind!"

No matter how much money that is poured into education, no matter how good the teachers are and no matter the sincerity of the parents: if the kid doesn't want to learn, there's nothing that you can do.

I don't believe test scores is the way to assign merit pay for teachers but I do believe in merit pay for teachers.

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All Rights Reserved

We have a winner.
I have been teaching for 3 years. In my former life, I bashed teachers, schools, gov't. Fact is, there is an entire generation coming through the "system" right now, that has absolutely no interest in improving anything (please don't tell me about YOUR kid who is the exception). They don't stand for the pledge, are sure they are "owed" all their needs (They get bussed, free breakfast and lunch) and will support anyone who promises something for nothing (or at least someone else paying for it). By the time they get to High School, I am faced with such enormous deficits in basic skills, that I can't even get them close to where they should be. The "pacing guides" say "Algorithms" this week when they are using a calculator to multiply 2X3. All this for less than 40% of what I made as a pharma rep when the biggest struggle was getting lunch into a doctor's office before it got cold. Oh and about that "parent sincerity", after you meet a few of them you understand the kid's attitude toward life. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

So true guys,some kids are beyond repair.Some parents don't have any business having children.But the percentage of troubled youth is way off the charts.
I just can't blame the teachers that might see an indivdual kid an hour a day.
I believe that the problem is society issue.

D.G.

Huh! Don't I recall your living in my old home town, Lake Mary(I do have CRS though). That is, or was a few years ago, the best school district in the state.

One of my kids teaches in Orlando. It's amazing they can fill the teaching jobs they have when you consider the **** teachers put up with. It's the kids and the parents who are the problem.

Bob

Merit pay for teachers is an emotionally attractive idea, but extremely difficult to implement fairly.

If I give you all the losers, you are going to look like a loser teacher and risk getting fired. What can you do if the kids won't try: NOTHING!
I'll take all the honors sections and look like a genius without even trying hard.

FACT: The restrictions on teachers ARE the problem we can address. Let them give "F" to all the students who do nothing. Right now, there are no consequences for kids who won't even try.
The first year, maybe 1/4 of the students fail and have to repeat the year. After that, the message will start to sink in.
That's if the parents don't lynch the teachers for telling the truth about their little darlings.

that's exactly the problem. the parents don't want to know about the kids problems. i agree it must be a societal solution. make everyone responsible for their own actions. if the kids misbehave or refuse to be schooled, then there needs to be consequences for the kids and the parents. the parents that aren't doing their job in the first place need some consequences of their own. this won't happen under the current system. it will take an overwhelming demand from society for this change of attitude and i don't think that there is the will to do it.

perrazi,so true but....It'll take an overwhelming demand for society to change.And that's the crux of the issue.

D.G.

Sorry perrazi I missed part of my point.Look at the last election and there's your reality of how the education system works.

D.G.

I though the problem was solved when they took away red pens so kids could keep their self esteem when they fail...

Teachers starting to shun red pens | The San Diego Union-Tribune

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Sip,yet another shining example of how the education system"works".
The question is,Who is it working for?

D.G.

Bob, I said the area not necessarily Lake Mary. I am not bashing teachers or endorsing the proposal before the governor, but rather stating that audits are not for catching crooks, but rather for keeping people honest.

sure ... grade the teachers. we all know that some of them are pinko commies and should be drummed out to work at McDonald's where they belong .... but also of at least equal importance is grading the curriculum.
the NRA had NO problem finding students that did knot know what the constitution was, leave alone the second amendment in said document. Ask them about safe sex and why not to share needles when your shooting up in an ally, you can bet on accurate answers.
it would seem that the good ones can, and do teach effectively, even though its the wrong things

My point exactly.What are they teaching?Who is to gain from a stupid populace?
We are seeing it now.

D.G.

well we certainly do not benefit from an incorrectly educated populous.

Today, in the course of less than 20 minutes, a taught a near no nothing young punk electric guitarist how to build a tube fired pre amp through facebook using a randomly selected schematic found online ... and even had the kid understanding how and why it works
the kids heads are as hungry as they have ever been.

I wouldn't call him a punk.Some kids thirst for knowledge but are unguided.If you could teach him to do that you might have done him a lot of good.Music is a great teacher of math.Electronics are as well.

D.G.

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhh, Sanford. Should have known.

Bob

nah ... hes a punk until such time as he unpunks himself. thats kinda how it works.
Im more than happy to offer the tools to help the de punkification process along.
ultimately its a shot at a future productive member of society who otherwise would become a guest of the state post DUI conviction

If you say so,But you probably wouldn't have helped him if you didn't think there was hope.But you did prove your point that there is a thirst for knowledge even if he is currently a punk.Good luck with your depunking process.
One question though,How do you think he became a punk,was it the educators fault or something else in his young life?
D.G.

my best guess ... environmental norms dictating underachievement through peer pressure and example.
lack of more specialized educational opportunities also contribute.

Hi:
QUESTION: Why are Sports Players paid millions and Public Employees are paid salaries to that They barely survive on?
School Teachers, Firefighters, EMS, LEOs are worth much more than a person that can throw a ball.
Jimmy

an age old question ... with an age old lack of a logical answer

[QUOTE=venomballistics;135431598]my best guess ... environmental norms dictating underachievement through peer pressure and example.


Now we're getting there.

D.G.

When these young'uns reach voting age, there's gonna be some SERIOUS stressing being expressed by those of us on this forum who'll be amongst the elderly membership by that time, I surmise.

I'm 46 and about once or twice a week, something appears that causes me to think, "There's one of our future leaders."

Gonna be big fun when our elderly conditions and the addressing thereof is governed by folks who are currently clueless about honor, honesty, and the meaning of working hard to get what you want/need.

Just my own opinion, worth every penny you paid for it.

[QUOTE=DeathGrip;135431644]probably, but it does not explain me.
I came from a very similar set of environmental variables. Statistically, I should be keeping a bar stool from floating away like the vast majority, but I find myself playing with the flow of electrons instead of booze.
I dont know what caused me to deviate from the norm to be honest. I'd like to know though. In that lies a valuable tool for turning people in better directions