Victoria (Australia) police new weapon

[john3136]

Thought this might be of interest to someone:

New pistol chosen for Victoria Police - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Force command has selected the .40 calibre Smith and Wesson semi-automatic pistol to replace their current 38 special revolvers.

[charlie sherrill]

I assume they are the M&P 40. If so, it's a very good choice.

[PRC74]

I wonder if that means there will be a lot of police trade in .38s imported here. I wonder what model .38s they had. It seems to me they used a lot of 3" models.

[john3136]

From wikipedia (therefore it must be true ;-)

Officers carry the .38 Special Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver in K-Frame, containing six copper jacketed, notched, hollow point bullets (147 grain) and one speedloader of spare ammunition (six rounds).

[7shooter]

Amazing quote :

"These firearms are no more deadly than the existing firearms."

[Bat Guano]

Here's hoping that there will be some more 3" Model 10s coming back home then. My daughter got a 3" 10-7 a while back and I neglected to get one. Darn nice little pistol.

As a former instructor I am less impressed every year with police departments' obsession with getting the perfect pistol into their holsters. I guess buying guns is easier than building mindset and proficiency, though.

[Jellybean]

I trained with an Australian policeman. They'd be better of keeping the revolvers for the average police officer...just like the American police would.

[Faulkner]

Originally Posted by Jellybean

I trained with an Australian policeman. They'd be better of keeping the revolvers for the average police officer...just like the American police would.

Pretty uninformed comment . . . I train with American police officers every week and I would disagree.

[fat tom]

Now Faulkner,keep in mind that the old boys down here know how to shoot before they ever sign up.
f.t.

[n4zov]

Since only 5.2% of Australian citizens are gun owners, I wonder why the LEO's need any firearms at all. Maybe somebody didn't get the memo to turn in their guns!

[Jellybean]

Originally Posted by fat tom

Now Faulkner,keep in mind that the old boys down here know how to shoot before they ever sign up.
f.t.

That may have a lot to do with it. The amount of training these guys are getting, and the amount of time they spend shooting by themselves, doesn't seem to be enough when they have to shoot their annual requalifications. The only reason the average police officer around here survives a shootout is because the average gangbanger is even worse. Revolvers aren't idiot proof either, but if you aren't going to take the time to learn how to use your weapon properly, you should chose one that is easier to learn. Just because autos hold more ammo doesn't make it a better choice, it's just a crutch that makes the officers practice even less.

[ENGINE18]

(waiting for a 3-inch bbl. M10!)

[john3136]

Last time the gun laws changed here, the government bought them back and destroyed them.
If Vic Police are using 3" barrels, they won't be sold in Australia (general public have to have 4"+).
If the government is smart they'll get sold back to the US somehow.
If the government works like most governments, we'll pay someone a million to crush all the old guns...

[FlYFiShErMaN]

Originally Posted by john3136

Last time the gun laws changed here, the government bought them back and destroyed them.
If Vic Police are using 3" barrels, they won't be sold in Australia (general public have to have 4"+).
If the government is smart they'll get sold back to the US somehow.
If the government works like most governments, we'll pay someone a million to crush all the old guns...

Wow! I would love to have one, what a shame. The first time you guys changed the gun laws, the purchase of 6" PVC pipe went up 3000% almost overnight. I guess when the price was right, everyone dug their guns up and sold them?

[john3136]

I'm only new to shooting, so I don't know all the history (except for talking to guys at my club who have been around a while).

I believe handguns have always been registered etc (so when the rules changed the police already knew who had what, so you were stuck).

I have heard stories about longarms being buried in PVC, along fencelines etc to make it hard to detect. They are still illegal, but I'm sure they are out there...

[george minze]

Here is hoping there are plenty buried out there. Considering the make-up of Australia I would think those in very sparsely inhabited area's would keep a firearm if they felt they needed it. I don't know what the law actually says but I was shocked that that Australians, a very self resilient society fell for any gun laws. Aussie 44 tried to explain it to me once and I still can't believe it. When in the Marines I was around some Aussie soldiers in the late 50s. I wouldn't have guessed by there make up and independent nature they would have allowed any restrictions that made no sense. I guess that should be a warning to us, it could happen here. Let us hope that we don't make the same mistake.........there are people in high places that never will give up the quest to ban handguns in this country, by one means or another. I would love to hear the real story about how Australia got scammed.

[Bat Guano]

A book I pull out and periodically reread is "It Can't Happen Here" by Lewis Sinclair, written in the 1930s when the Depression was in full swing and politics was getting wierd. Although dated, it describes how the US could possibly come under a home-grown totalitarian "regime". Sinclair really put his finger on how it would function.

I don't have the book handy at the moment (my son is reading it) but he has a very affecting paragraph in there about how people would start distancing themselves from anyone too outspoken or defiant of the new regime. Family, friends, and acquaintances would be increasingly unwilling to be seen around you and eventually you would be something of a pariah. Only a few trusted friends of like opinions would have anything at all to do with you--but they would keep you alive spiritually and perhaps physically as well.

A scary book, with that title. Maybe it's time for a reprinting.

[jeepjeepwhat]

10,000 guns for $7 million? I thought they would get a price break, unless that includes a couple years worth of ammo. Doesn't that seem a little pricey?

[KLNFrame]

That's 10,000 plus which includes spares,extras,holsters,mag pouches ect ect.

Peter

[mgo]

Originally Posted by john3136

Thought this might be of interest to someone:

New pistol chosen for Victoria Police - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Force command has selected the .40 calibre Smith and Wesson semi-automatic pistol to replace their current 38 special revolvers.

Watching the video of the tests, it was odd to see the shooter rack the slide rather than simply use the slide release lever after the reload.

I wouldn't want to visit there, those people all talk like that annoying insurance company lizard.

[7shooter]

MGO .... The defensive pistol schools I have attended ( DTI, LFI, Front Sight, and others ) have all taught the method shown in the video. Their rationale is that it uses gross motor movement rather than the fine motor action needed to find and press the slide lock lever under stress. I took a competition course from Jerry Barnhart and he uses the same method. An advantage to it is that your action is the same when you have a tiny slide lock lever as when you have a more pronounced lever like on most 1911s so if you switch off on carry guns it doesn't matter. Some of the schools said not to call it a slide release lever but a slide lock lever because they see that as its only legitimate purpose. I think another advantage is that the movement involves actions similar to " tap, rack, bang " which are automatic for many shooters.

[akviper]

Sorry for the drift. I call horse petucky on those that claim you can't find your slide stop/release under stress. If you can't locate that relatively large slide stop how in the world are you ever going to find that itty bitty magazine release for your reload? If you want to teach the slide rack because it's similar to the malfunction drill you run, fine, but don't tell someone they won't be able to hit a slide release.

In my years instructing baby cops I saw a lot more self induced malfunctions and injuries with the hand on slide method than the "old fashioned" hit the slide release method.

[7shooter]

Akviper ... My understanding of this issue isn't that the operator can't find the slide lock but rather that it is easier and faster to use the method taught by the schools I have attended. The idea is that gross motor movemnts are less vuilnerable to deterioration under stress than the fine motor action needed to press a relatively small slide lock lever like on pistols like the Glock. You could test it out with a shot timer. Place your pistol flat on a table at the range with a loaded mag and the slide locked back . Then not touching the gun hit the timer button and do it both ways to see which is faster under the minor stress of trying to go faster. Which ever way is faster for you use. As my a friend who was the SWAT fire arms instructor for a big city PD and Viet Nam Special Forces vet now tells the carry class we teach " There are two things you never have enough of in a gunfight ... time and ammunition ".

[Jellybean]

While I've never attended any overpriced or overrated shooting schools, I've heard that the "proper" way to release the slide after a reload is to pull it back, like in the video. This had nothing to do with any motor skills but rather because it allowed the slide to move forward with more force, hopefully preventing a failure to feed.