Unbelievable that an "investigation" is continuing. Two people say the bear charged them. Bear is found 100 feet from where they were dead of gunshot wounds. What's to investigate? Do they think the bear was sunbathing, and these two people decided to shoot at it with a pistol?

Backpacker shoots, kills grizzly in Alaska park - Yahoo! News

I don't see a problem with them investigating further. After all, it's just the backpacker's word that his story is true . . . and people do lie.

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- Change it back -

Leave it to the media to neglect the most important parts of the story.

What was he carrying? 1911? XD? Glop? What holds 9 rounds, a 1911 with an 8 rd mag?

Open carry or concealed?

And finally, most important, what loads? I'm betting hardball.

Also, I agree with what one of the comments after the article says: I'd like to buy that man a cold beverage of his choice.

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Georgia On My Mind

The article doesn't say "45 acp". Could have been an Automag in 45 WinMag... That would be WAY cooler!

Come on. I'm a retired cop, and I understand that a basic inquiry must be made. But if you look at the story, one person commented that the wounds had all better be to the front of the animal. So what if the bear turned off after being struck, or turned his attention to the hiker's companion, while the shooter is firing? They're going to arrest the guy? I once shot a charging pitbull. ALL of the hits were in the side. Know why? The animal began to turn as I fired, and I was turning as well to avoid him. I sure couldn't tell you where my shots were hitting. When it was over, he was dead an my partner and I were OK. And why is it legal to carry in the park, and not fire? I'm sure they meant target practice is prohibited, but this sure wasn't target practice. Do you know anyone who would shoot a grizzly with a handgun while not in an elevated, safe location?

"It's coming right for us!!!"

Because this country is insane and the politicians that make the laws are insane. I guess you're supposed to take the bullets out of the gun and throw them at the grizzly all the while yelling "Shoo".

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Dick

Ha. You're so right. We need to be fed.

I'd just shut up and get a lawyer,if they don't "get it" then they deserve to be sued.

I'm not commenting on the circumstances of this case, however it's being investigated because the killing of any griz, (a federal endangered species) requires an inquiry to see if the killing was justified. Griz are killed in Montana every year, guys shooting them thinking they're black bears, ranchers kill them for attacking livestock, several are killed every hunting season in reported self defense shootings, and some guys shoot them out of pure damn meaness and let them rot. One of the biggest grizzlys ever studied was shot and left to rot last year for no discernable reason, matter of fact they found several like that last year.

They have to make sure the killing wasn't an over reaction, people shooting when it really wasn't necessary, griz will bluff charge and challenge you, and of course, sometimes they charge for real.

I'm glad the hikers are ok, but also hope the griz didn't die for no reason, I like having them around, means you still live in a wild state,

Take care...

How do you tell a bluff charge from a real one? I'm going to want to start shooting at a distance that gives me enough time to empty the gun using the best aimed shots I can. If the bear's 'bluff charge' ends inside that distance, I'm not waiting.

But, we don't have any bears here, so it's an academic problem for me.

"Everybody lies."

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Lost it all in a boat accident

In the fabulous book about the Lewis & Clark Expedition "Undaunted Courage"... the expedition members scoffed at the Indian's stories of the great "invincible" bears up river.

They didn't laugh so much the first time that the encountered their first grizzly.

Their weapons had little initial effect on the bears and they finally learned to uses multiple volley's in combination with beating feet.

They became true believers in these bears.

Somebody got real lucky.

The authorities always investigate bear killings there. As the other poster said, they do so to determine if the shooting was justified.

Unfortunately many of the bear killings there could have been avoided. If you startle a bear, he will either charge or turn and run. You never know which.

As a kid growing up in Alaska, my mother would drop pebbles in an empty pop can and then tie it to my belt. Made a hell of a racket. We never had a problem.

So how do you tell the difference beyween a bluff charge and a real one? I mean, if a guy pulls an unloaded gun on you, should you wait until he fires, making sure it is real, before returning fire?

I had a black bear stroll past me in my yard a few weeks back. I was playing with my three year old son. I am glad it kept moving Since then, I slip a .357 into my belt when we are outside. I surely do not want to kill an animal (I swerve to avoid squirrels, and I have a pesky groundhog in my backyard that I am hoping decides to move on it's own since I don't want to kill it), but if I even THINK that bear is a threat to me or my son, I will shoot it. And if some of the rounds happen to hit it in the side, since I surely will be moving to the side if it charges, and the bear will probably be moving as well when it feels the shots hit, I'll take my chances with Ranger Rick and his "investigative skills". What are they going to do, interview the dead bear? If I am in my house shooting from my porch, or if the shots come downwards from my elevated deck, then I will accept that I was wrong and take the penalty (but I would never shoot a bear in those situations). if we're both at ground level, in less than 15 yards from each other? I am not taking the chance.

[QUOTE=kbm6893;135495190] I had a black bear stroll past me in my yard a few weeks back. I was playing with my three year old son. I am glad it kept moving Since then, I slip a .357 into my belt when we are outside. QUOTE]

kbm6893,
Sir you have it right IMO...Once I had a blackie convince me he was a fixin' to try to run up my britches leg from about 12 feet. I didn't think twice about shooting it, it came outta the brush huffin' and poppin' it's teeth. Put a 250grain .348 Silver Tip about the point where it's neck joined his near shoulder. Oh, yeah that turned him and I stuck him with another one somewhere's about the top on the shoulder blade as he quartered past at a couple of feet.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

A lot of hikers have died from bear attacks in AK. If I were to hike up there, I would have several filled mags for my gun. No way I would have stopped with nine rounds.

As has been said, it has to be investigated further. You can carry there, but not discharge the weapon. Pretty dumb regs in my opinion.
I'd like to know what he was carrying in .45 that could put a griz down, for sure.

About the only .45 I'd feel safe with is my 1995 GBL in .45-70.

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Pete.

'bout 10 years ago a large male black bear walked up on a ladies porch as she was feeding breakfast to her two grandchildren, aged about 3-4. She looked out the kitchen door window just as that bear stood up and put both paws on either side of the door and looked in the window.
Grandma reached and got a 30-06 and essayed 2 well placed rounds in the bruins chest, killing him pretty much DRT.....
Well, the Dept of Natural Resources Ranger and I go to the scene....
As much as I regret the killing of the bear, I am satisfied that that woman truly believed she was saving the life of her grandchildren....
The High Up types in the DNR wanted her charged, we said no, and she never was....

Sheriff, you have common sense. Not much of that around in some agencies.

My hi-point 45acp holds 9 rounds.

I'm confident I could kill a bear with it. I can put all nine shots on a target the size of a dinner plate at 25 yards.

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SW Sigma 40VE, 22a, M&P 15-22

Can you do that with the dinner plate moving?

And not just moving - Coming at you faster than a race horse can run!
And not looking as friendly as your dinner plate either!!
And --- Well, you get the idea.

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In dog years I'm dead.

That's my point. You made the right call. If you hadn't, some grandmother would be charged with the crime in defending her grandchildren. Bunch of nonsense. Some park ranger who wasn't there makes the call if the bear's actions were agressive, and the book is closed.

I doubt that the shooter would have reported the shooting if it had been some kind of "thrill kill". More likey, after he fired and the bear disappeared, the hikers beat feet out of there. They reported the shooting since the bear had been agressive and they were not sure the bear was dead. Sounds to me like responsible behavior.

Out
West

Nine rounds with a .45! Yeah that would do the job I think.

"The shooting? It was justified."

A grizzly bear's head is A LOT bigger than a dinner plate.

I've got head shots on squirrels and whitetails.

Though, I will admit. None of them were trying to kill me and they weren't with my .45. lol

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SW Sigma 40VE, 22a, M&P 15-22

I'm not sure if you'd want to shoot a griz in the head. Might glance off or not penetrate sufficiently. Seems to me we had a member post here a ways back about trying to put a deer down, a deer that had been hit by a car, by shooting it in the head with 45 ACP, and it did not do the job very well.

(And I have no expertise in this at all -- just sayin'. )

Well, my .22lr and .17hmr explode squirrel heads. My savage .308 does the same with deer heads.

In the death of Timothy Treadwell the forestry officials were attacked by a medium size grizzly and it took over 25 9mm hits to bring it down.

Honestly, I'd rather have my .357 than my .45 for a sidearm if I were hiking. Although, I'd think a 45acp would be able to do the job should you hit a vital area. A direct head shot should do the trick but a glancing probably wouldn't.

In one of my dad's fur fish n game mags it tells the story of a woman that killed a very large grizzly from point blank range with a .22lr.

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SW Sigma 40VE, 22a, M&P 15-22

"Honestly, I'd rather have my .357 than my .45 for a sidearm if I were hiking."

Same here. My 629 Mountain Revolver too!

Well, my brother reloads and he's got me some "sho nuff bear stoppers" lol. That's what we call them.

Although, there aren't very many bears in southern Alabama. Black bears are becoming more common though.

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SW Sigma 40VE, 22a, M&P 15-22

What, no "the bear was just getting his life together" comments?

Seriously, this'll become one of those cases where carrying in parks gets attention. I would like to know what ammo was used; I'd think something along the lines of a nice 210-grain Silvertip in .44 Mag would be better, but can't fault the results.

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50 Years of DSOTM

Last I looked, Alaska law permits killing wildlife in self-defense (even to include killing wildlife that might be be threatening your life indirectly, such as by tearing up your vital gear and supplies...), as does AZ, and, I hope, most states. Once again, we see a report by an incurious reporter not savvy enough to even ask, much less answer, the many questions raised here so far. This pathetically ignorant, oblivious, clueless reporting is indicative of what's wrong with the MSM.

Below is the official National Park Service release:


Denali National Park & Preserve (AK)
Grizzly Bear Shot By Backpackers

Two backpackers, a man and woman, encountered a grizzly bear last Friday evening while hiking in the dense brush along the edge of Tattler Creek, which is at the west end of Igloo Canyon, approximately 35 miles from park headquarters. The man, who was in the lead, drew a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol when they heard a noise coming from the brush. When the bear emerged from the thicket and ran toward the other hiker, he fired approximately nine rounds in its general direction. The bear stopped, turned, and walked back into the brush, where it quickly disappeared from view. The backpackers ran and hiked approximately a mile and a half back to the road, where they encountered a National Park Service employee who called in the incident to the park’s communication center and transported them to the Toklat Road Camp. A ranger there did a short preliminary interview with them around 10 p.m. Because of the concern that a wounded bear was in the area, four backcountry units were immediately closed and bus drivers were instructed to not drop off day hikers in Igloo Canyon on Saturday. Early Saturday morning, rangers and wildlife technicians flew to Toklat via helicopter to conduct a secondary interview with the two backpackers. Afterwards they flew over Tattler Creek and all of side tributaries, very low at times, to determine if there was an active, wounded bear. No bears were seen during the overflight. Late in the afternoon, three rangers hiked into the site and found the bear dead in a willow thicket approximately 100 feet from the pistol casings. The bear’s body was transported via helicopter to a landing site on the park road and brought back to headquarters on Sunday, where park wildlife biologists are assisting with the investigation of the bear carcass. The backcountry units have been reopened. The case is still under investigation, and the names of the backpackers are not being released at this time. Park wildlife biologists and rangers are trying to determine if there was a justification for shooting the animal. It is legal to carry a firearm in the former Mt. McKinley National Park portion of the park, but it is not legal to discharge it. This is the first known instance of a grizzly bear being shot by a visitor in the wilderness portion of the park. The estimated grizzly bear population in the park north of the Alaska Range north is 300 to 350 animals. [Submitted by Kris Fister, Public Affairs Officer]

The bear, if very young, very old, injured, starving or startled would likely be the cause of the attack.

However, it also could have thought of the hikers as just an easy meal too.

All God's creatures have teeth and claws, except man, who was given brains...he used this brain to discover fire, design spears, knives and guns.

Now, these hikers have another bear to deal with- the bureaucratic bear known as the NPS which likely won't turn them loose so easily.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

At least this thread has remained bearable.

I hope Smokey the Bear was not the one that got smoked.

Come on now, who goes out in the deep country wanting to kill a Grizzly bear with a .45?? Even if it was a .45 long colt which would be the best of the .45 round if you ask me, that round wouldn't be on anyone's list who had any knowledge of calibers !! That investigation should have taken about 30 minutes. Find out if the hits were from elevation, if they weren't they would not it wasn't planned and taken their statement, and if they didn't contradict themselves a lot in the statement, that should have been the end of it, period!!!! Reasonable doubt will win the case for the defendant if they try to file charges. No jury in their right mind would convict someone of defense against a Grizzly Bear!!! Some people are so devoid of common sense it is scary, I can't understand why this was even a question of wrong-doing!!!!

Oldman 45,
Smokey Bear is a black bear originaly from New Mexico, he now resides at the National Zoo in Washington, D.C. and will turn 66 years-old on August 9th. Thanks for thinking of him!

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

Not to get further off the OP's original topic, but I believe Smokey Bear died around 1976 and is buried at the Smokey Bear Historical Park, NM.

Anyways, a 45 acp proved to be better than nothing when confronted by a huge omnivore.

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Inconsistently consistent

I think yelling "Shoo" would only futher provoke the bear. Right "Shooboy"

Black bears have a life expectancy of less than a third of that so can't be true. A WAG is 66 years is how long the character and ads have been around but I am not sure of that.

In passing, I enjoy these bear threads. They always seem to generate some interesting, and at times unusual, stuff.


Bob

I think the original Smokey the Bear (the one who was rescued after the forest fire near Capitan, New Mexico) died some years ago and they have a new one, perhaps a succession of new ones, at the National Zoo.

Its illegal to shoot in National Parks in the same way its illegal to shoot in your local grocery store. If someone is about to smack you in the head with a hammer, then your need to shoot trumps the law against it.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I'll hold out for common sense on both sides of this thing.

And I'll be sure to visit Smokey if I ever visit DC - it's real good to hear about him and for the kids' sake it doesn't matter how old Smokey "is".

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July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

If a bear is following within 30-40 yards of me and is obviously stalking then I'm gonna shoot. Even if it's not stalking bug obviously following I'm gonna shoot. I will not end up as a bear ****.

Those bears can run upwards of 35mph and would be able to cover 50 yards in less than 10 seconds.

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SW Sigma 40VE, 22a, M&P 15-22

Unbelievable that an "investigation" is continuing.

Not really.
An investigation is just routine . Required by law or policy, it's not geared toward one party or the other, Citizen against State or anything else.
I,m sure they are just as interested in why the bear was aggressive more than anything else.
They will do an outopsy and look at the bears stomach contents and it's brain among other things.

The 454 casull or 460 S&W are more my thought if I have to try with a 45 cal handgun.

if you are in fact a retired police officer...then you understand why there are investigations...in particular when the animal is protected and often times shot for less than legit reasons...to simply accept something at face value i find is a VERY odd thing for a "retired police officer" to say..
as to someone being in an elevated,safe location...where might that be?if you can climb it,the griz can climb it too...just 10 times faster then you!

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

This reminds me of a Norwegian scientist who had to shoot an agressive polar bear a few years ago. He used a S&W .44 Magnum; didn't say if it was stainless or blue, or the bbl. length or the exact ammo. He did kill the bear.

Readers who wrote to National Geographic uniformly condemned this poor guy. You'd think they were PETA members, deluded by TV nature programs! They may well have been!

Massad Ayoob reported on a polar bear in a New York zoo that had to be shot by a cop when it got hold of someone idiot enough to get too close. If I recall, the bear stood up and got a lead HP .38 Special round from a S&W M-10 in the chest, probably about in the "sticking place." That ammo was not authorized, but Ayoob told me on the 'phone that it was definitely what the guy was carrying. Instant dead bear!

I'm tired of these cynics who say that the only value a handgun has in a bear attack is that you can shoot yourself.

There have been a number of incidents in which a handgun has saved a life during a bear attack. Some here should recall that in his classic work, "Sixguns", Elmer Keith cited the case of a friend (Frank Waterman?) who used a Colt SAA in .45 Colt, 7.5-inch bbl., to kill a grizzly that stood up and popped its teeth at him when he surprised it on a kill. I think he had the old blackpowder load, 250 grain bullet at a nominal velocity of 910 FPS. One shot killed the bear. Elmer had a lot of respect for that load.
Before the .44 Magnum came out, he said that if he had to rely on factory ammo, he'd wear a 45 Colt. That's a heck of an endorsement, considering the source!

For the record, most PREDATORY bear attacks are by black bears. However, polar bears will probably take a person when they can. Jeff Cooper felt that they, like crocodiles, are man-eaters by species, more than in individual cases. A polar bear probably takes any meat that it can.

Some want .460 or .500 handguns. The 44 Magnum is all that I can handle, so that's what I'd carry in bear country. I know that the .44 Mag has killed a number of grizzly and even brown bears. An Alaska guide who writes for Rifle magazine said that he and his daughter wear Ruger .357's, the Security-Six model. They feel that with good shot placement, which is vital, that they can kill a bear. This man has seen many bears killed, and knows their size and ferocity.

I'd rather rely on a .375 H&H Magnum rifle, but if a rifle can't be carried or is out of reach, I'd a lot rather have a handgun than some wag's smart remark that it's useless.

I don't understand one poster's remark that elevation would determine if the bear in the park was improperly shot. The hikers may have been on higher ground than the bear. We don't know, from the report. If the bear ran someone up a tree, I'd still approve of him/her shooting it.

T-Star

Should YOU be held to that standard? that you can never shoot in self-defense if you haven't already conclusively proved that your assailant is not bluffing? In most jurisdictions, it is legal to kill a human being who makes a reasonable person believe that he is going to kill him. Are you telling us that there is a higher standard for defense against bears, even if humans are usually lost in the process?

Maybe I misunderstand. What ARE you saying?