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  #1  
Old 06-08-2010, 02:33 PM
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Default An early .32 revolver from the main competitor

My lucky streak continues, this time with an older model in nice shape from the main competitor.

Colt .32 New Pocket, one of the earliest swing-out revolvers and the foundation of the company's New Police and Police Positive lines: Mfd. 1897 from the serial number on the butt, and therefore an antique.

A few speckles, wear spots and minor dings here and there, but overall in 95% condition, I think. Not bad for 113 years old.







This corresponds to the .32 Hand Ejector models that S&W began producing on the I-frame in the late 1890s.

I'd like to shoot it, but this is from a few years before Colt began chambering their revolvers to handle .32 S&W cartridges. This one shoots only .32 Colt, which is available only through specialty retailers at outrageous prices, unless one can find brass and roll one's own loads.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:20 PM
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Neat old Colt.
Actually, the 32 S&W Long came out in the Model 1896 a year before your gun was built.
Colt just wasn't smart enough to adopt it when they made your gun. They did later, and called it the .32 Colt New Police.
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:45 PM
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Colt New Police from 1905. It looks the same except for the name.





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Old 06-08-2010, 06:46 PM
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MMMMMmm, COLTS, er ah I mean, very nice!
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:52 PM
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I have a fondness for .32s, even if they are Colt's.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
Colt New Police from 1905. It looks the same except for the name.





Actualy your 'New Police' has a square butt, the 'Pocket' is a round butt. Otherwise you are right, same gun differnt name.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:42 PM
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While we are talking 32's here's a question. I have been thinking about looking for a 32, preferably a S&W (but a nice Colt wouldn't be a problem). What should a decent, nothing fancy, 32 revolver go for? It would be a gun my bride can shoot comfortably and something fun for me to plink. What models would you recommend? Lastly, what specifically should I be looking for when I find one?
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:54 PM
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David your not breaking over to the...dark side !?!

I have a .32 too... but it's a Kel-Tec !!!

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Old 06-08-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Steve View Post
While we are talking 32's here's a question. I have been thinking about looking for a 32, preferably a S&W (but a nice Colt wouldn't be a problem). What should a decent, nothing fancy, 32 revolver go for? It would be a gun my bride can shoot comfortably and something fun for me to plink. What models would you recommend? Lastly, what specifically should I be looking for when I find one?

A .38 Special, of about the same size! It'll be a much more effective, versatile gun. Try for a S&W M-36 or M-60, or the Ruger SP-101. The three-inch barrels are the best, unless you need the snubs for a particular concealment issue.

Has anyone got good photos of the later Pocket Positive? I think that was Colt's best small .32, for visual and practical purposes.

They made the Detective Special and Cobra in .32, as well as the rare Courier. But see my comments on the .38 in the same models. Better choice. Ammo will often be easier to find, too. Price will be about the same for a .32 or a .38, in the same basic models. In Texas, that's some $350-$450, depending on the seller. If you get lucky, you can find the wonderful S&W M-60-4 in that price range. The target sights and full-lug barrel make it a very well balanced, extremely accurate small revolver.

T-Star
P.S. My father once had a Colt New Police .32, and if you are lucky enough to find a Modesty Blaise thriller, look for a photo of author Peter O'Donnell on the back cover. He's holding a New Police. I guess that was the "Colt .32" used by Modesty, although she'd really have probably used the Courier or Detective Special, given the time frame of the books, 1966-1996. Modesty liked the S&W M-57 .41 Magnum for longer range needs, and traded her .32 for a Star PD .45 in later books.

Last edited by Texas Star; 06-08-2010 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:13 PM
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That is a great looking revolver there my friend.

Good catch!
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:09 AM
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The longer grip on Pilgrim's NP really attracts me. The forward curve that brings the bottom of the hand forward is really better adapted to the architecture of my wrists and hands than the corresponding S&W grip. I have taught myself to bend my wrist down in order to get a good point from a S&W, but the equivalent Colts, with what seems to be a grip axis not so far off a line perpendicular to the barrel, offer a more natural "point" in my hands.

Not that I am feeling the pull of the dark side, you understand.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
A .38 Special, of about the same size! It'll be a much more effective, versatile gun. Try for a S&W M-36 or M-60, or the Ruger SP-101. The three-inch barrels are the best, unless you need the snubs for a particular concealment issue.

Has anyone got good photos of the later Pocket Positive? I think that was Colt's best small .32, for visual and practical purposes.

They made the Detective Special and Cobra in .32, as well as the rare Courier. But see my comments on the .38 in the same models. Better choice. Ammo will often be easier to find, too. Price will be about the same for a .32 or a .38, in the same basic models. In Texas, that's some $350-$450, depending on the seller. If you get lucky, you can find the wonderful S&W M-60-4 in that price range. The target sights and full-lug barrel make it a very well balanced, extremely accurate small revolver.

T-Star
P.S. My father once had a Colt New Police .32, and if you are lucky enough to find a Modesty Blaise thriller, look for a photo of author Peter O'Donnell on the back cover. He's holding a New Police. I guess that was the "Colt .32" used by Modesty, although she'd really have probably used the Courier or Detective Special, given the time frame of the books, 1966-1996. Modesty liked the S&W M-57 .41 Magnum for longer range needs, and traded her .32 for a Star PD .45 in later books.
Thanks for your input. I have a 649 and Ruger Police Service Six, both 357's, so don't need another 38. My bride would like something very benign to shoot, hence my thinking of a 32. Besides, the truth is I always wanted a nice little 32. (o; Around here 38 and .380 are as hard to find as an honest politician. Guess I'll have to breakdown and buy some in bulk on the web.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:14 PM
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If it could only talk.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:55 PM
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I love the 32 calibers. I'd like to have a Colt snubby in 32.
Thats a great gun you have found. May we all look that good when we hit 113.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:52 PM
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Although Colt Cobras, and Dick Spl's chambered for .32 are indeed the same size as their .38's. The Colt Pocket positive (like the S&W .32 HE) is considerably smaller. The pocket positive looks exactly the same as the New pocket shown in this thread. (all differances are internal)

I have a Pocket Positive I carry most of the time. Bbl. cut to 2" and bobbed hammer. (collectors are grinding their teeth, I know) It weighs about the same as a 337 Airweight, but like I said is considerably smaller. (a .32 S&W HE would be about the same)

The .32 S&W long/.32 Colt Police is no Lion stopper true. But then niether is the .38SPL. (besides I think it unlikely I will ever be attacked by a lion) And in the early 1900's many police dept.'s issued revolvers chambered in those cal's.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therevjay View Post
Although Colt Cobras, and Dick Spl's chambered for .32 are indeed the same size as their .38's. The Colt Pocket positive (like the S&W .32 HE) is considerably smaller. The pocket positive looks exactly the same as the New pocket shown in this thread. (all differances are internal)

I have a Pocket Positive I carry most of the time. Bbl. cut to 2" and bobbed hammer. (collectors are grinding their teeth, I know) It weighs about the same as a 337 Airweight, but like I said is considerably smaller. (a .32 S&W HE would be about the same)

The .32 S&W long/.32 Colt Police is no Lion stopper true. But then niether is the .38SPL. (besides I think it unlikely I will ever be attacked by a lion) And in the early 1900's many police dept.'s issued revolvers chambered in those cal's.

I mentioned the Pocket Positive above, and feel that it was one of the better small Colts, if one is content with the caliber. Are you able to post pics?

Can the .32 Long Colt be hotted up much? (Handloading). I've read that Geco ammo is hotter in .32 S&W long than is US ammo. May be true of Norma and Lapua, too, and they use full wadcutter bullets. Might give the .32 user a small edge.

A .32 is no lion gun, but it will kill most snakes. Not sure about two-legged snakes, unless the bullet is precisely placed and manages to penetrate enough. A slim-barrelled M-36 is as small as an S&W M-30 in .32, and hits harder. Still, I realize that some like .32's, and one is certainly better than no gun at all, or a .25!

BTW, all older Colt models will have cylinder indexing problems long before comparable S&W or Ruger guns. Their timing system is just not on par with that of S&W. And one often has to pay a collector's price to buy one.

Still, they are very well made, and are a nice momento of days gone by.

In general, I have seen few that shot to the sights, and Col. Chas. Askins told me that he had to turn the barrels on almost all of the then-new New Service .38's that he ordered for the Border Patrol in the late 1930's. I asked why he didn't just order S&W .38-44's, which were much more likely to shoot to the sights, and had a better timing system, too.

He said that the S&W reps were full of themselves and that Colt people treated him better! That should be a lesson for any company, no matter what their merchandise...

That said, I did once own a New Service .45 that shot where it should, and would group all six shots into one ragged hole at 25 yards, with me shooting offhand. I am not known as a marksman of Olympic quality, so that impressed me. The gun was very nearly as accurate as my M-29 .44 Magnum.

The OP ought to take note of the sighting and timing problems inherent in older Colts. And few modern gunsmiths have experience in working on them. Doubt that the Colt factory still services them. The late Jim Clark told a friend of mine that he could re-time a Python, and the gun might well be out-of-time again within a few hundred rounds.

T-Star

Last edited by Texas Star; 06-09-2010 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:25 PM
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Wrote you out a fairly long reply to all points. But it seems to have vanished into the ether. I can't type well enough to want do it all again. But, Colt reliability/ timeing issues? All old BS storys. Just like the ones the Colt guys tell about S&W.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therevjay View Post
Wrote you out a fairly long reply to all points. But it seems to have vanished into the ether. I can't type well enough to want do it all again. But, Colt reliability/ timeing issues? All old BS storys. Just like the ones the Colt guys tell about S&W.


Reverend, you don't know me. I don't write BS, and I have a very wide experience of Colts as well as S&W's. I know whereof I speak. Moreover, I have heard from several gunsmiths that this isn't BS. If you have an older Colt that is fully in-time, you are one of the lucky ones. One gunsmith told me that he didn't like to work on Colts, as he couldn't charge enough to compensate him for the added time and expertise it took.

I frequented a major gun store for over 20 years, and examined MANY used Colts. Most were indeed out-of-time, and that happened to all but one that I owned. My friend who had his Python timed by Jim Clark, one of the best known gunsmiths of all time, also had timing problems. He was shooting in competition, so his gun got more use than most left in bureau drawers, but his S&W's did hold their timing much better, if correctly set at the outset. Many left the factory from the late 1960's-1970's with bad timing. But that applied to both brands then. Very poor quality control! I gather that Astra and Llama had similar issues.

I must say, I have seldom seen a DA Ruger out of time. The larger parts and the design tend to make them last longer without tuning. I have seen a couple of Security-Sixes out-of-time, but the owners admitted that they had been shot a LOT, for many years. And, mostly, with full .357 ammo.

T-Star
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:16 PM
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Thanks to therevjay and T-star for their comments. I was a little concerned when I saw the trigger stop so far off to the right in this model, as it seems to allow a little bit of rotational play that I have never seen in later Colts -- but I have not had a chance to handle or inspect a lot of Colts, so maybe my experiences are skewed. To test alignment, I ran a range rod down the bore on all chambers both with the gun cocked and at full lockup (hammer down, trigger back).

In the first case, I could always get the range rod out of the barrel and into the chamber, but with a click and some drag on a couple of chambers. But at full lockup, with the hand pressing the cylinder in a clockwise direction, there are two or three chambers where the rod will NOT get out of the barrel into the cylinder.

Gross timing is fine: the cylinder lock always clicks into place before the hammer falls.

In my mind's eye I can see what to do about this, but I think I will reserve correction efforts until after I have a lot more home smithing experience. And if I can find some .32 LC ammo (or even .32 shorts) I will try the gun out to see if actual performance is bad enough to warrant trying to tune it up a bit.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:27 PM
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Winchester does make seasonal runs of .32 Short and Long Colt. It uses an outside lubricated bullet, and looks just like a big .22LR cartridge. A couple of the shops around me stock it, and I have an old box of the stuff, but have never had a gun for it. I did want to buy a .32 rimfire Marlin rifle and have it converted to shoot these rounds once though.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:40 PM
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Texas Star

I didn't mean to imply you were BSing. If thats the impression you got, I apolagize. What I ment is, the storys of Colt unreliability/timing problems are grossly exagerated.

It is true that the Colt systim is more complex, and will most likely need tuning before a S&W. But we are talking after yrs of use. Colt fans say the more complex systim is far superior to S&W's and this is a small price to pay, S&W fans say this shows Colts are weak S&W's are strong. Personaly I don't shoot enough for it to matter, But I would actualy vote for the S&W systim. It is simpler, and simple is good.

This does not mean however Colts are fragile, or will go out of time in short order. I have 7 DA Colts rangeing in age from 1888-1928. They all look like they have had rough lives before I got them. ( actualy thats why I could afford them) Only 1 is out of time.

I may be wrong, but thats my opinion.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:25 PM
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I like the classic Smith & Wesson design best (have no use for current production) but the V-Spring Colt design has served me well though with admittedly much more limited use. I have fired a goodly number of rounds through a Officer's Model Match and a Detective Special with no problems. A New Service Model 1917 I have has seen the most use through the years and it continues to give proper function.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:26 AM
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Pocket Positive in .32 S&W Special. I haven't shot it yet, waiting to work up the loads.

Quite smaller than a J-Frame .38 Special and maybe almost as good. The round can be loaded a bit hotter than factory if my research is correct.



The Colt V-Spring makes the Colt D/A a tad easier to lighten the trigger pull. I have three Official Police's [or is it Policee?], the above, a Police Positive in .38 S & W, a New Service in .45 Long Colt, and a Python. All of them have good actions and no failure to function. Most have been shot some before me, the Pyhton a lot but it is still tight.

I had originally heard the Colt actions were inferior to the S & W. And maybe through a slew of shooting the can be. Mine won't be shot much. I will say the Python is WAY overbilled as a fine revolver. It is beautifully finished outside but the interior looks as if it was polished with 100 grit in a rock grinder. I have seen the earlier Pythons [mine is circa 1979] and they are a bit better.

All of my S & Ws are finished inside better than the Python.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:11 AM
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It is nice to see DCWilson's Colt New Pocket and its fine condition. They are difficult to find in such nice condition. Colt could put a finish on a revolver back in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. His New Pocket is a good reminder of what they looked like when new.

I have a scruffy Colt New Pocket. It is eye-opening to see just how small they are when placed beside a Colt New Service, this a U.S. Army Model 1909. Matching the two along with their respective cartridges (.45 Colt and .32 Long Colt) with a .22 Long Rifle for comparison. What a hoot!



I like SemperFi71's Pocket Positive too, especially in that barrel length. It is a sensible revolver because it is chambered for the more common .32 S&W Long.

Last edited by bmcgilvray; 06-11-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:49 PM
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bmcgilvray,

Thanks, that's why I like it, the cartridge has easily attainable components.

These smaller frames are truly smaller so to speak, kinda cute little boogers.
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22lr, 380, 38spl, 44 magnum, 649, airweight, cartridge, colt, detective, ejector, hand ejector, model 1917, model 29, model 39, model 60, olympic, rimfire, round butt, ruger, snubby, wadcutter, winchester

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