Going to N Ga, TN area. Where we usually go there are lots of Black Bears and berry bushes. We are not camping overnight but take day trips, hiking etc. Due to the amount of berry bushes and exposure to people the bears are not really afraid of humans. Never had a problem with one and they usually will run away if encountered. I would never like to shoot any animal but some of them are pretty fearless. To many trash cans and such.
But you never know. I do not want to lug around a 44spl or mag revolver. I usually carry a compact 9mm for two legged problems but that did not seem adequate.
A J frame 357 seems pointless with a 2" barrel so I was thinking my HK USPc 40 SW with a lot more rounds.

I only want to bring one gun so I figured the 40SW would work?

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Still Running Against the Wind

for me it would be at the minimum a 41mag.

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

From what I hear, black bears aren't that tough or aggressive.

It's unlikely that you'd need to shoot one anyway, as long as you make enough noise to let them know you're coming.

Bear spray, backed up by a .357 Magnum should be fine.

If you have a 40 S&W, I would call it good.

At least .30 caliber and belt fed. Also a companion who runs slower than you.

My Wife.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I used to have a place in the mountains that we went to every year ,I carry a 60 .357 mag with some 170 grainers ,never felt underpowered
maybe a speed strip in your pocket ,just in case

Jason

I just sprayed my malted beverage on the monitor.

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Inconsistently consistent

I have a very health respect for all bear large and small, black, brown or grizzled.

You call his bluff or he'll calls yours.

If'n he shows ya what he's got...It'll be exciting





I'd bet the bear ain't all that impressed with my hand...



So you see, it could end up winner take all...Or just a draw.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Dave,

You got it right Amigo. Knowin' you, you pretty much know your way around them critters. Time of year, feed in front of them, cubs...all come into play. Me, I've been charged more times than most. Never once needed a gun wih a Blackie...but I've been lucky. Most ticklish thing I ever did was live trap a female with 3 cubs outside of the culvert trap. Not good.

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Non gratum anus rodentum

I think I will go with the 40SW. At least there is 12 shots rather than 5. Plus after I trip my wife, I should be far enough away.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I've been living peaceably with the black bears in Yosemite Valley (and the back country, and the Sierra Nevada in general) for about 50 years. As long as it's not a momma with babies and she fears for her cubs I've never seen a problem.

Having said that, if I was worried about it a .41 mag would be the smallest. And remember that there brain is kind of low in the head.

(Also there is a rumor that won't go away that menstruating women are especially at risk. That probably started in Glacier Nat. Park in I think '59. There is no evidence that it's true and plenty that it isn't.)

Sounds like a beautiful place to be living. I hope to get out there some day.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I live in North GA, the biggest threat in the woods is two legged, not four.
Avoid trash dumps and dumpters, and Momma's with cubs and the risk of a bear bothering you is less likely than snakebite....

Hi, OCD1:
My Wife read your reply from over my shoulder and told me, "Honey you have a twin brother after all".
Jimmy

I haven't ditched her after 30+ plus years so I guess I am still on my "starter wife"

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Still Running Against the Wind

We have a home in Rabun county, GA near the GA/NC line. Berries are just starting to come out, none are ripe yet. The laurel and rhododendren barely bloomed this year, for some reason, so we didn't have much to look at.

My wife picks berries, I tote all sorts of S&W .41 & .44 mag revolvers and sometimes a 10mm. I have been advised to carry a small air horn, like boaters use, to frighten bears. The local park ranger swears this works (he carries a Glock 10mm), so I don't believe him.

RUGER blackhawk in 45lc loaded with buffalo bore HEAVY load 300gr.jfn..

12 gauge pump with slugs.

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VIVERE MILITARE EST

Too funny! I about lost my coffee!

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Still Running Against the Wind

I love a good bear thread!

First on a serious note, and to answer your question. Like most folks here, I personally would not feel real comfortable with anything less than .44 mag. If you are most comfortable with your H&K USPc in .40 cal. I would buy some solid bullet ammo for it.

I didn't look, but Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore may make a 180gr. solid like a JSP, or a JFP. They do not suggest that you use all lead bullets in a polygonal barrel, but I have the exact same gun that you have, and I have shot total lead bullets out of it with no problems.

The important thing is that you buy enough of these solids so that you can test fire a bunch and make sure they work reliably in your USP. I don't think you will have a problem though, because mine has eaten everything I have ever put through it without a hitch.

If you won't take a magnum, this will have to do.

On a funny note, on one of the many bear threads that have been posted, a guy asked how he could tell the black bear from a brown bear (other than the color, because some black bears can be brownish in color.)

The guy that answered him gave one of the best answers I have ever heard. He said, " If a bear is chasing you, quickly climb a tree. If the bear climbs the tree and eats you, it was a black bear. If the bear knocks down the tree and eats you, it was a brown bear."

Good luck on your trip.

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Freedom above all else.

Keep it simple.... 44 Mag as a minimum.

Well I have a 4" 629 but really do not feel like lugging that around, besides I do not have a holster for it. I wear shorts and Polo or T shirts 11 mths of the year so I pretty much only pocket carry a small 9mm or a J frame. I have holsters for most of my large semi autos but it's hard to conceal a 45. I could put it in my day pack but by the time I get it out I'm lunch. I really do not expect a problem as they never bothered us before. My Wife hikes faster than me, so I let her blaze the trail.

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Still Running Against the Wind

They can be tough, bank on it.Not always. For me it would be my 5'' 44 mag.

according to my patrol deputies, using a car is effective.....I was at my dad's house when the zone deputy called me and told me a car had hit a bear in front of my house...
according to the driver, the bear ran off, and has not been found...

OCD1 Sir,
My first post was kind of in jest, as a lot of my post are in general. But, seeing how this is a sincere question I should have given an equally sincere reply.

So here goes. I've spent a fair amount of time in the backcountry that has a good population of black bears as well as grizzles. With scores of contacts, I have only killed one black bear that took exception to my trespassing in his territory and it took two pretty good placed shots from a medium bore rifle
(.348 Win. 250 gr ST) at spittin' distance (10 or 12 feet) to turn him and I'm not all that good a spitter.

I have bumped into bears on the trail while packing supplies into our camps...I give them critters full right of way, with no regard to size, color or species, they get a free roll if'n they will let me be. A bear of any size is a lot better at his business of maulin' & killin' than I am.

After a close encounter with a 'big' bear I kinda re-thought the whole sidearm for bear protection...A big ol' boar stole a whole caribou from us and covered it up in the willows and was a layed up right close just wainting for it to ripen some. That bear rested his case on possession being nine-tenths of his law, we yealded to his authority. That little .300 Win Mag I was a totin' felt more like a skin't sapling that a deadly weapon.

Back to your question of calibre, I have personally carry a revolver the likes of a 24 or 624 3-5" with stout handloads while just going about my business in 'bear country' for years. Your 9mm with +P FMJ will penatrate good enough at close range (read at distances from a few feet to muzzle contact) while ya slow the carnivore down some by feed it a foot, leg and or what ever your not usin' to try to repel it off'n ya, if you catch my drift.

If I have other folks in my charge to look out for or livestock to protect, I carry a rifle. Namely the one pictured below...

'86 Winchester 20" Take-Down .45/70


Hope this helps.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

It would seem to me that this would justify buying a holster for the 629. This is exactly the situation it is meant for. Why have it if you're not going to use it?

Is it really that much heavier than the .40 you plan to carry?

You got it right Evil Dog.

Jerry

A menstruating woman is not at risk for ANYTHING

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Forum consigliere

Keith44,
I enjoy your posts and writing style. No need to explain. I like your pics also.

cp1969,
I only have it to impress people at the range I like shooting it but as it is 4" I can not use it to hunt here in Florida, got to be 6". I have a 44 Mag Marlin lever action, could carry that .
But as far as weight the revolver is 41 oz, the HK is 27 oz. I have not weighed them loaded. Also have a SA XD 40 sub compact even smaller.

Heck, I'll just bring the Rem 30-06.

I think I will bring "Bubba" instead He's always ready!

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Still Running Against the Wind

"A menstruating woman is not at risk for ANYTHING"

Not true, they have been known to attract sharks. I took scuba lessons many years ago and the instructors were quite plain about this.

Great picture and neat history.

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Still Running Against the Wind

You have higher odds of being struck by lightning and much higher odds of dying in a car crash on the way.

- A .44 Magnum is about the threshold minimum handgun chambering capable of delivering adequate energy and penetration for bear defense.

- A 4" .44 Mag N-frame or equivalent is an ideal compromise platform. Bigger, better, of course...

- The Safepacker holster by The Wilderness, in Phoenix, is a versatile and very discreet carry option that won't alarm or intimidate most "civilians", and is easily attached to pack waistbelts and etc. (I recently encountered a small black bear in Sequoia National Park, on a busy trail, along with many other hiking tourists, none of whom apparently noticed the large frame Glock appended to my pack's belt...)

- The widely-held belief that black bear sows are ferociously protective of their cubs is evidently BS, as reported by former Michigan DNR bear research biologist Al Harger, who live-trapped many sows with cubs, and found that while they huffed and puffed and snapped their teeth and false-charged, they never risked themselves in an attack to defend cubs, advice on which I have relied to successfully shoo a sow with cubs from my campsite (albeit armed with an '06) without unpleasant incident. Grizzlies are evidently quite another matter, but outside my experience...

There is a lot of helpful information here, about the black bears themselves.

Welcome to CoveBear.com! - Black Bear Attacks

Dave, I am so wanting a takedown 45-70 '86 Win. Mine is a full size rifle that is not a takedown. That rifle of yours is beautiful! Nice pics.


WG840

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Freedom above all else.

I only have two that I would trust my bad eyesight with a .450 Marlin and a .45-70 Marlin.

Being recently married if I had to tangle with the bear or the woman I would opt for the bear. I am married to a woman who is better armed than me.

If you are really serious about bears a 5 inch 460 or S&W 500 will fill the ticket. They are no longer made ,but You can still find them. Just the thought of a bear trying to munch on me,makes me want to pack a bazooka if I could,or the flame thrower. But thats not possible. I own 2 S&W 44's a 29 8 3/8 and a 629 4 inch and a 300 grain bullet would come to mind for Bruins and lots of speedloaders at least 3 at the ready.

Now thats what I'm talkin' about.......A .45 Colt is just the ticket. I have a few Mtn guns and a Blackhawk and a Model of the 1989 that would love to go on Bear duty. I'm in Alaska and have been since I was a younger guy in the US Army (Infantry), and I'll not be around ANY species of bear with anything less. JMHO

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Go big or stay home

I'd be packing my 4 5/8"barreled Ruger Blackhawk .41 Mag loaded with my 255gr WFP handloads or Remington 210gr JSP factory loads.

I have backpacked in Pennsylvania black bear country for years. I am much more concerned with two legged threats than bears.
Backpacking, weight is an issue. I have carried a six-inch 44mag with a minimum amount of ammo, and it was like carrying a concrete block on the trail.
One of the best trail guns I have packed was a glock 23 40S&W...It handled the wet weather perfectly, was light, and I had a mag loaded with DoubleTap ammo heavy-loaded 180gn FMJ's, as well as some mags of hot JHP's by the same company.
Frankly, my favorite backpack handgun now is a Tokarev pistol...it was cheap to buy(so I am not concerned about abusing it on the trail), it is 100% reliable, its accurate out to 100yds, and compact. The round it fires is famous for penetration...

Myself, I know firsthand absolutely nothing about bears, and have heard many theories and actual experiences about how to stay out of trouble around bears. The following comes from a guy named J. J. Hack who posts on another web site. I find it interesting. Perhaps you will, too.

"This post was from another web site which I put up a long time ago. I thought it might have some relevence to this topic.

I worked for much of my life in a bear damage management program in Washington state. My job week in and week out seasonally was to provide supplimental feed and to remove problem bears from a 380,000 acre tree farm which was bordered by an enormous wilderness area with a seemingly endless supply of black bears. I am currently the Western editor of bear hunting magazine, and a Professional Hunter in the country of South Africa. This past season in Africa my 19 clients shot and killed 117 big game animals in 8 weeks of hunting. That was just one season!
I mention these things so you realize my experience level with big to "HUGE" game is significant. A person needs a bit of resolution in his experience. One or two animals or even a dozen does not make the averaage guy an expert in all that can happen or go wrong. A real authority in the way bullets perform in living tissue needs to see hundreds of big animals shot to study the results and the reactions. From archery, to shotguns and rifles crossbows, and handguns or Muzzle loaders. I have killed or been involved in the direct harvest of hundreds of bears including Brown and grizzly while guiding in Alaska.

When you read this post which follows Remember I'm not just blowing smoke, I've been there! The .44 magnum with a good load will fold up and kill any black bear alive with ease! I don't know who the fellow was that gave the presentation( a previous post stated a .44 magnum was not enough for a black bear) but my guess is that he is baised in some way against handguns, or has little faith in the average user(most likely). I have shot many dozens if not over a hundred with a 44 magnum and never lost a single one. As far as I'm concerned it's nearly the perfect gun for black bear hunting over bait or for as far as 75 yard shooting, maybe further!

Here is my other post:
I might be able to save you some grief and give you a reliable and proven solution. I have had to kill several hundred bears in my life. Many were not in a very happy mood and quite a few would have had my hide torn off PDQ had it not been they were in a foot snare. My Job as a bear hunting guide and as a wildlife manager for many years gave me insight into some conditions regular folks might only see once in a hundred life-times!

First the .44 magnum is plenty of gun for black bear self defense. Not for brownies or grizzly!

Next we have to consider the difference between hunting bears and stopping or imobilizing bears instantly. There is enough difference between the two that many folks get confused when they talk about the ammunition they are suggesting for the gun your asking about. If I were hunting bears a heavy hard cast bullet would be a fair choice. It leaves two .430 diameter holes and usually enough blood to follow to the trophy. The key part of that phrase is "follow to the trophy" !
You will be following the bear because the heavy hardcast bullets will in every case whistle through at a handgun hunting distance broadside shot. This impact is about the equal to a field tipped arrow. The bear has very little reaction except to hunch up for a brief moment and spring forward running as fast as possible often times covering 100 yards and remaining alive for another 30 seconds to a minute or more. Sometimes requiring a follow up shot.

Now consider the bear who is a threat to you. Broadside is out, and bears do not attack while standing. So you have an animal coming at high speed with his head only inches from the ground. If you shoot at his head while the distance is closing you will hit him in the guts without proper lead. That is not an easy thing to do without significant practice and training. If you have the foresight to concentrate while in a panic and shoot at the ground in front of his head you might make a neck or head shot, feel lucky? If you're using hardcast bullets and miss the spine or brain you're getting hit and knocked silly before you even realize what is going on. It's happened to me so I speak from first hand experience on this.
The heavy hard cast bullets don't disrupt enough tissue to crumple or stall a bear unless a perfect CNS hit is made. The better choice and I say this after trying so many loads and killing so many bears I feel the research is nearly indisputable, is the common 240 grain hollowpoint. I have used many types but having done research with Hornady to develope the XTP bullet in the 80's I feel the XTP is as good as any bullet or better. I have seen nearly every bear hit with a Garrett bullet run a long way unless CNS hits were made. However with a 240 hollowpoint the bears will spin like a top and bite at the wound trying to get the burning "bee" out of there hide. This allows many more shots. I have also seen them fall at impact and roll aound on the ground while bawling their heads off allowing more shots. These bullets rarely exit and tear up so much tissue that the bears really show amazing impact effect when compared to the 300 grain hardcast bullets most folks want for hunting. I would not use a 300 grain hard cast bullet for bears as a first choice. Bears are soft and usually small for such a bullet. Those bullets should be used for really big animals with difficult to break bones like elk moose bison and brown bears. Nothing over 400 pounds really needs bullets with that heavy "zip through" construction that a 300 plus grain hard cast construction offers with the exception of wild hogs which have a very thick heavy gristle plate that can prematurely stop softer hollow point bullets.

The reactions I have seen first hand to dozens if not over 100 bears has given me these feelings, not just a bear here and there with random shot placement. Many of the bears shot while hunting are calm and relaxed, the reaction when they are hit is by a significant margin different then when a bear that is agressive and charging you. When we had bears snared that were hit in the chest with a hardcast bullet they continued to pull on the cable to get at us. When bears were shot with the 220-250 grain hollow points most if not all recoiled back and bit at their wound. They always stopped fighting and realized they had bigger trouble then the human they were attacking. The reaction was much different and very consistant. Consider the difference between hitting a deer with a 375HH solid with 4500 plus FPE and shooting that same deer with a 130 grain soft point from a .270, the bigger bullet hitting the deer will allow him to run quite a distance. The Smaller but very explosive 130 grain bullet with only about 2600 FPE will likely fold up the deer on the spot. This is very much like the 240HP VS the 300HC decision. I for one will always carry 240 grain hollow points in my .44 mag revolver and never worry about having enough stopping power for black bears."

I've created a MONSTER!

After reading 520Fans, post we have canceled our trip.

Thanks for the excerpt. interesting reading.

I've decided on my carry options.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I guess I'd take something I wouldn't mind losing during my high speed retreat. .50 cal. Raven?

Attached Images

.50 cal. Raven.jpg (35.3 KB, 92 views)

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better have that checked

Be aware of black bears in north Georgia, but pay even more attention to banjo music, especially if it seems to be getting closer and closer.

If you hear Banjo Music, start RUNNING!

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Still Running Against the Wind

remember, you don't have to outrun the banjo players, you just have to outrun whoever is with you..

Caj, I'll see your menstruating woman and raise you a pre-menopausal woman. Trust me, no bear is more ferocious than she is. My Wife turns 50 this year. Pray for me.

Neither does anything else.

Disruption of the CNS is what stops things, not tissue destruction. That doesn't even work on people, let alone bears.