I recently purchased a 99% blue/varnish Winchester Pre-64 Model 70 in .300 Winchester Magnum. Well the rifle showed up today, it looks unfired to my eyes. There are two tiny handling marks in the wood, otherwise the rifle is stone mint, even the bolt face is shiny blue still. I bought the rifle as an investment that I could shoot at the range from time to time, but this rifle is so minty I know even cycling the bolt will wear some bluing off. I know that if this rifle is put away, it will only go up in value as only 4,900 were made, and only in 1963, but I wanted a new rifle to look at, and shoot. It seems silly, but I may have to return it for being TOO nice LOL. What would you do?

Jared

I would keep it as an investment and get a second one to shoot. The oldest son of one of my friends has an early 50s Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum. It is near the condition of your rifle. He shoots it. He says that a rifle like that was made to be shot, and he intends to do just that.

Shoot it! That's what it was designed for. I hunt with a few very expensive & finely engraved Browning Superposed and A-5 shotguns and yes they have gotten a few minor nicks, and scratches, but in my opinion that's just good honest wear. I don't like safe queens........if I buy it I am gonna shoot it. I get a lot of joy out of hunting and shooting skeet & trap with those beautiful guns. Unless you are in the firearms business and looking at this Winchester strictly to turn a profit, I can not see why you wouldn't want to use it. Enjoy it and don't worry about the minor wear. You only live once!

Regards,
chief38

After that first one percent is gone it's no longer NIB, shoot it!

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Stay safe people!

YES !!!
It's thee reason why I want one....

Any gun I own gets shot! Period. Well.........I might make an exception for a NIB Colt Patterson, but that is about it. Besides, I might drop dead tomorrow and leave a new gun for somebody else to shoot.

It depends...

If you are going to agonize about shooting afterward, then no...

If you are itching to shoot it and this would outweigh any remorse afterward, go right on ahead.

I would not recommend mounting a scope on it, if it has never had one though- use open sights.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

I have a number of guns in that catagory. Lots of ways of looking at it.
You for sure are going to hear the chest thumpers, I wouldnt own a gun I wouldnt shoot etc. Yet there are some guns I wouldnt shoot either. I have two commemertives I wont shoot, one is fully engraved. I have antiques I wont shoot as they are fragile. Okay, I have a 1950 somethings winchesters in a model 64, a 63 that I bought new in the box when it was out of production over 20 years with the hanging tags. I have shot them but spareinly.
Look, I once bought a used but almost new colt new frontier in .45 colt. I happily shot it and enjoyed it until I researched it and discovered that audie murphy had bought it new! I quit shooting it and made it a safe queen. I always wanted to shoot it more but refrained myself. Then I got married and about 4 short years later my ex stold it and many more to finance her running off with another married man! Now I wish I had shot the snot out of it! By the way, I also own a nice .300 H&H model 70 from 1952. I shoot it, but really just how much does one need to sight one in and occasionaly hunt with it? I probley own 12 to 15 high powered rifles so most of them seldom see the light of day anyway.
My real advice if any, is dont ask us! You do what YOU want to do! It reminds me of watching deal or no deal where the audiance goads the player into risking maybe 200K they already won, and probley walking off with maybe 4K by listening to the crowd. Kinda like the old arena in rome must have been. Good luck!

Part of me thinks that if I don't shoot it, the next owner will. I once purchased an almost new German Weatherby VarmintMaster in .224 Weatherby Magnum, it was also built in 1963. That rifle was stone mint, not a mark on it. I mounted a beautiful Leupold 4.5-14X40mm VX-3 on it, and have fired it several hundred times out at the range, and you know what, it still is mint. It goes to the range in a pillarlock hard case, and gets fired off of a stack of pillows from our couch (don't laugh, it works LOL). I guess what I am trying to say is that if you don't put them in a scabbard, and hunt with them, they pretty much stay nice. So probably putting 40 rounds a year through it off of my pillow rest will not hurt the finish too bad.

I will sleep on it though.

Jared

all i know is it is one of my grail guns and yes i would shoot it.

Can you sell it and retire to the islands on the proceeds of the sale? Probably not. So why not have the pleasure of owning and shooting such a fine rifle? I don't advocate tossing it in the bed of your pickup on the way to a hunt or otherwise abusing the thing but take it out and shoot it...enjoy it...that's what it was made for!

Life is too short to not shoot all the nice guns we own.

Apparently, the photo links didn’t come thru. Please try posting them again!

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"I also cook."

I shot trap for years with an old Rancher and we became very good friends. He had a son and years back when he bought a rifle or pistol, he bought one for himself and a spare for his Boy. Unfortunately his son was injured as a young boy and could never use any of the guns.

When Mel was dying of cancer I visited and he told me he was going to give me a few guns he thought I would like. And that he wanted me to use them and enjoy them.

One of them was an unfired circa 1955 M-70 in .300 H&H. Along with a 200 rd case of Remington factory 180 gr Core-Lokt's.

I ended up removing the cracked and semi shot pad and had a competant stock man install a new Pachmayer Old English pad. Looks much nicer. Did save the old cracked pad though...for you purists.

I mounted a 3-9 Leupold with Talley rings and bases. Have shot it several times but do NOT have the heart to take it out hunting. I DO have to one day though ....to make Mel happy.

One can shoot them without beating them to death...I'd shoot it if you want to.

FN in MT

If you plan on saving it in it's pristine condition forever and ever and passing it on to a friend or reletive in that condition,,,then save yourself the anguish and take it out and shoot it. They'll either do that for you before you're in the ground or turn it for the cash that you should be enjoying from it.
If you want an excellent shooter grade of the same rifle, sell the collector grade and buy one,, pocket the difference.

I say shoot it. There is no reason that you can't take it to the range (or even an easy hunting trip) without adding a significant amount of wear to it. I wouldn't drag it up and down the side of mountain on a sheep hunt though.

How many rounds can you put through it before it no longer looks unfired?? The only way to find out is to shoot it.
Of course with that final round that leaves a trace of being fired, you no longer have a possibly "unfired" rifle.
So, the decision is "do I want this as an investment or do I want it as a shooter?" You can't really have both.

What you can have (with care) is a shooter that probably won't lose value with time, but it won't appreciate like it would if left "unfired". Therefore, not really an "investment".

Of course, in these times, anything you can put your money in that will at least keep up with inflation might be considered a good investment.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Life's short....Load it and drop the hamer!

Shoot it, shoot it, shoot it!

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You are what you learn.

Its a gun... all be it a NICE gun.
Shoot it.
For "me", I cant feel an attachment to a gun I dont shoot.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

The rifle is going back to the seller. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel that the rifle is not 99% as the seller stated. The wood has no gloss to it at all, it is as matte as a 100 year old railroad tie. My other Pre-64's have a nice gloss to the walnut's finish, even my original 1937 .375. The other .300 Win's that I have been able to find online also appear to be slightly glossy, like my two M70's.

The other thing that bothers me is there is a threaded hole drilled in the back of the bolt, no other Pre-64 I have ever seen has this hole. I have Rule's book, and it makes no mention of this hole. The hole is silver inside, not blued. If it was put there by the factory, wouldn't it be blued inside? Anybody here have a Model 70 built in either '62 or '63?

Jared

I have a couple pre 64's unfired since the factory test fired them and the bolt head on them isn't in blue. I would question if the gun had been reblued.
Otherwise, it's hard to say but I know a man locally that works on those and when he is finished you can't tell they aren't new and original. I wish he wouldn't do that but he doesn't want to hear it.

My suggestion is, if you don't have an arm and a leg into it, shoot it and enjoy it. Or return it. I try not to have guns that I won't use.

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Lynnie, Professional Pest

I think somewhere along the line things got confused.

Personally, I am in concurrence with the folks that say, "use it!"

i would use it or sell it

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

I would give it a nice spot in the safe. I have lots of shooters.

A '63 Win Model 70 in 300 Win Mag is a grail gun for me as well. I had a neighbor when I was a kid that had a 300 Win Mag, couldn't tell you the model, but I fell in love with the round. The first one I purchased was a Remington 700SS some years ago in Win Mag.

Last year I picked up a '65 Model 70 in Win Mag, it was far from new, it has a lot of character. It's a good woods gun.

I would be skeptical about any NIB type '63 Model 70 Winny. The odds aren't real good some 47 years later. My taste if I could actually afford a '63 would be more along the lines of a shooter grade gun.

However if I happened to find a NIBish one that was authentic I wouldn't shoot it. I've got other Win Mags as shooters, even if I didn't have other shooters I'd look at a new model CRF Win if I wanted a shooter.

They won't make any more of the pre-'64 70s in Win Mag!

Cheers,
Sam

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Beware the man with one gun...

You certainly have a wonderful rifle. I understand your hesitancy to shoot it due to it's condition and scarcity. Only you can decide whether it is worth more to you as a rifle to enjoy and use, or simply own as an investment. As for me, I'd scope her up and see what she would do at the range. Someday, someone is going to shoot that rifle. It may as well be you.

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195th Session FBINA

My wife will sell every gun I own for $100 each unless I can get my son to sell them for her. Therefore, I shoot every gun I own. Unfortunately, I don't even have any safe queens. I always take 2-3 LR rifles and my trusty 200 yd .22LR along with 2-3 pistols for when I get done on the back 600 yd range. I take those over to the action pistol range and give them a work out. I rotate those out depending on what the plan is for the next days shooting. For instance, I ran into a friend who loves Enfields he shoots the few he owns. During one of our conversations I mentioned I had an old FAL. He wanted to shoot that so out came 3-4 old miltary rifles for that trip to the range. I realized I hadn't fired my FAL for a couple of months. I loaded up a few mags and fire one offhand. I forgot just how much fun it was to shoot it.

One day I'll end up with a collectors guns...but I don't think so. I'm having too much fun shooting them.

We have a local guy here that, at last count, has 12 Pre-64 M70's in all kinds of calibers. When we go shooting he drags 2-3 along for the fun.
Beautiful guns...all. My own M70 is a varmint in .243 and it's a post 64.
I shot it last Sunday.

The pre-64 M70 I let get away from me was one I traded a sporterized 30/40 Krag for. (The guy was unhappy with it because it kicked too hard and ammo was a pain to find.)

It was a pre-64 Mod70 in .358 Win.!!!

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I returned the rifle to the seller. I only had 3 days to decide to keep it, or return it. I could not determine if the stock was original finish, or refinished in some way. I have never seen a Pre-64 that had a matte finish to the walnut. Both of mine are somewhat shiny, but they are much older than the .300 Win. Magnum is. The seller told me that the last rifles shipped in 1963 had dull/matte stocks, anybody know if this is true? I have my eye on another Pre-64 in .300 Win. Magnum, and it is supposedly 99% blue/99% varnish. So I am waiting to make sure that Perry County Firearms will refund my money as promised. If they do refund, I will try to buy this other .300 Win. Magnum. The thing that really tipped me over into returning the previous rifle was that there is a threaded hole drilled into the rear of the bolt, I have never seen this on a Pre-64 rifle before, and none of the bolts in Roger Rule's book show this hole.

Jared

I have an absolutely 99% 1952 Model 70 that I bought 27 years ago that had a half a box of Super X shot in it. The other half of the box came with it. It was a documented one owner gun with box and all paperwork.

It sat in my Fort Knox for all that time with only the occassional cleaning and drooling. Six months ago I had enough. I took the rifle and the last 10 shells and SHOT it. Now I reload and shoot it every week. I'm out to 600 yards with it and having a ball!!!!!!!!!!!! It still looks 99%.

I did the same thing with a 1980 Colt Ned Buntline Commerative - 12" bbl, nickled in 45.

No more safe queens in this house.

I have owned 25-30 Pre '64 M/70's over the years, most were purchased FTF. As I prefer Pre-war and early '50's guns, I have never owned any of the 1963 models. By then quality standards had slipped quite a bit, the plastic buttplates and scrubby little checkering panels don't appeal to me. Since the .300 WM was only made late in production I guess you're stuck with the lower quality. I have never seen any of the late plastic buttplate guns with the matte/dull finished stock, the finish sometimes looked as if not a lot of time was spent on it but it always has some gloss to it. The drilled and tapped hole in the bolt is a mystery, probably done after the rifle left New Haven for reasons known only to the person who did it. I am surprised it was not mentioned in the dealer's description of the rifle. In the nearly fifty years since production of the Pre '64 M/70 ceased many have been modified, more recently the parts whores are tearing them down and selling the parts at outrageous prices. Good clean unmodified rifles are becoming increasingly more costly and hard to find. I wish you luck in your quest for a .300 WM that suits your requirements.