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08-29-2010, 08:11 AM
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More steam
Couple of months ago I posted some pics of the 5/8ths scale model steam traction engine that my dad built.
Several people asked just how big the original engines were. Below are a few pics from Mt Pleasant IA where they are getting ready for next weeks steam show.
This is the engine the model was based on. A 22/70 Wood Brothers.
A 25/75 Case along with an under mounted Avery engine.
Another 25/75 Case and a big 35/110 Case plow engine.
Couple more pics of the big 110 Case.
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08-29-2010, 08:48 AM
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You, sir, are exactly the person I have been looking for. A friend of mine who lives in Iowa has a 1/4 scale Avery that his father built while working for the railroad back in the 30's. Please contact me via e-mail which is in my profile.
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08-29-2010, 09:17 AM
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What do the numbers stand for? The second seems to be horsepower. Is the first weight in tons?
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08-29-2010, 09:22 AM
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Fantastic!
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08-29-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Z MUNNY
You, sir, are exactly the person I have been looking for. A friend of mine who lives in Iowa has a 1/4 scale Avery that his father built while working for the railroad back in the 30's. Please contact me via e-mail which is in my profile.
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My e-mail is
[email protected]
What can I help you with?
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08-29-2010, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckemup97
What do the numbers stand for? The second seems to be horsepower. Is the first weight in tons?
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Both numbers are HP ratings.
1st number is drawbar, 2nd is belt, or flywheel rating.
Note that steam and gas HP ratings are quite a bit different. Can`t recall the formula to convert one to the other.
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08-29-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Another 25/75 Case and a big 35/110 Case plow engine.
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in the photo there is a "tracked" tractor ? do you have a full picture and what is it ?
Thanks
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08-29-2010, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop's2
in the photo there is a "tracked" tractor ? do you have a full picture and what is it ?
Thanks
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I didn`t pay that much attention to it. I was only there a couple of hours.
There will be several of those little crawlers at the show. That one looks like a Case, but I didn`t get enough of it in the pic to really say for sure.
I`ll be going back up there next weekend when everything is up and running. If I can remember, I`ll get you a better photo of it.
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08-29-2010, 07:17 PM
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Superb! What were these originally used for-tractors or road hauling?
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08-29-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKHAWKNJ
Superb! What were these originally used for-tractors or road hauling?
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American tractors are that, tractors for farming. Typically the top speed is perhaps 5 to 8 miles per hour, most of the time much less.
The English were the ones that had three types of steam tractors which were the following: Plowing engines, tractions engines, and road engines.
American steam tractors are slow and meant for pulling a plow or powering attachments.
British plowing engines typically have a large powered gear on the bottom of the boiler which can run or pull a cable. This cable is then pulled across a field to another plowing engine and then the two, on either sides of the field would pull a plow on this cable, so the heavy engines would never be in any danger of getting stuck in the field, as quite frequently happened when pulling a plow directly behind the engine on soft or wet ground.
British traction engines are the next step up, and have gears that will allow them to achieve higher ground speeds as larger wheels with rubber coverings to help cushion them at higher speeds. They were primarily used for pulling heavy loads or caravans of wagons loaded with goods to market.
Road engines are typically the largest and most powerful of the traction engines, and may not be a class all to themselves but most folks consider them that way. They have the largest wheels, boilers and can achieve the highest speeds- up to 40mph!
Unfortunately, these clean fuel vehicles have almost disappeared from usage in England by draconian laws governing their speed, loads they can pull, terrible amounts of cash needed for inspection, mounds of paperwork for boiler certificates, etc.
Be thankful that in the U.S. boiler certificates aren't necessary for steam tractors...yet.
The Federal Railroad Commission's requirements for inspections for all railroad steam engines- both private and public has made it prohibitively expensive for many organizations to afford inspections, and therefore they cannot operate steam engines any longer, even though they may be safe. Of course, all this came about because of one catastrophic accident on a tourist railroad where the engine was not maintained or "blown down" after each use.
I'm no expert- just a modeler, enthusiast and volunteer that's read up on this stuff. I wish I could afford a traction engine...
You can buy a brand new one from England for about $120K plus shipping.
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08-29-2010, 10:12 PM
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The Boiler Laws came about over the last 150 years because of a lot more than 1 accident. States usually exclude "hobby" boilers under a certain horsepower from inspection, but here in Missouri if you will be running it in a public setting, it requires an inspection. While some "hobby" owners take great pride in their rigs, some don't. Those are the ones that you need to worry about. Google "Boiler Explosions" for an eye opener.
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08-30-2010, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
I didn`t pay that much attention to it. I was only there a couple of hours.
There will be several of those little crawlers at the show. That one looks like a Case, but I didn`t get enough of it in the pic to really say for sure.
I`ll be going back up there next weekend when everything is up and running. If I can remember, I`ll get you a better photo of it.
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Thanks for the reply; I will look forward to seeing the full shot.
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08-30-2010, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrhiner
The Boiler Laws came about over the last 150 years because of a lot more than 1 accident. States usually exclude "hobby" boilers under a certain horsepower from inspection, but here in Missouri if you will be running it in a public setting, it requires an inspection. While some "hobby" owners take great pride in their rigs, some don't. Those are the ones that you need to worry about. Google "Boiler Explosions" for an eye opener.
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Blow ups have been exceptionally rare over the last 60-70 years.
They used to require state boiler inspections here in Iowa until it occured to someone in state government (in an exceptionally rare moment of common sense) that the steam buffs were the real experts, not the government goons.
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08-30-2010, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Griffith
American tractors are that, tractors for farming. Typically the top speed is perhaps 5 to 8 miles per hour, most of the time much less.
The English were the ones that had three types of steam tractors which were the following: Plowing engines, tractions engines, and road engines.
American steam tractors are slow and meant for pulling a plow or powering attachments.
British plowing engines typically have a large powered gear on the bottom of the boiler which can run or pull a cable. This cable is then pulled across a field to another plowing engine and then the two, on either sides of the field would pull a plow on this cable, so the heavy engines would never be in any danger of getting stuck in the field, as quite frequently happened when pulling a plow directly behind the engine on soft or wet ground.
British traction engines are the next step up, and have gears that will allow them to achieve higher ground speeds as larger wheels with rubber coverings to help cushion them at higher speeds. They were primarily used for pulling heavy loads or caravans of wagons loaded with goods to market.
Road engines are typically the largest and most powerful of the traction engines, and may not be a class all to themselves but most folks consider them that way. They have the largest wheels, boilers and can achieve the highest speeds- up to 40mph!
Unfortunately, these clean fuel vehicles have almost disappeared from usage in England by draconian laws governing their speed, loads they can pull, terrible amounts of cash needed for inspection, mounds of paperwork for boiler certificates, etc.
Be thankful that in the U.S. boiler certificates aren't necessary for steam tractors...yet.
The Federal Railroad Commission's requirements for inspections for all railroad steam engines- both private and public has made it prohibitively expensive for many organizations to afford inspections, and therefore they cannot operate steam engines any longer, even though they may be safe. Of course, all this came about because of one catastrophic accident on a tourist railroad where the engine was not maintained or "blown down" after each use.
I'm no expert- just a modeler, enthusiast and volunteer that's read up on this stuff. I wish I could afford a traction engine...
You can buy a brand new one from England for about $120K plus shipping.
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Andy,
Here are some "little" stationary engines you will get a kick out of that the Association maintains at the Mt Pleasant show.
A Murry Corless stationary. Back in the day, this beast would have been used to power all the equipment in a small factory with a system of pulleys and belts. Right now it powers a Model T Ford machine shop.
This is Big Al. A dual cylinder monster built by AC to pump water for a small city. It can pump about 14 million gallons of water per day.
These pics didn`t turn out that great. I`d starve to death as a photographer.
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08-30-2010, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Griffith
American tractors are that, tractors for farming. Typically the top speed is perhaps 5 to 8 miles per hour, most of the time much less.
I'm no expert- just a modeler, enthusiast and volunteer that's read up on this stuff. I wish I could afford a traction engine...
You can buy a brand new one from England for about $120K plus shipping.
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More like 3 to 4 MPH on American engines.
There has been some talk of rebuilding (actually recreating, since no complete engine still exists) one of the 50/150 Case engines.
They estimate the cost at $250,000 to $350,000.
If I were to win the lottery or something, I`d put up the cash just to see something like that work. I think only 9 of them were ever built. That would have been a true road locomotive.
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08-30-2010, 06:51 PM
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This one belonged to my uncle:
He sure loved those old steamers.
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08-30-2010, 08:53 PM
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I saw this one near Casper,Wy. a couple years ago.
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09-05-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop's2
Thanks for the reply; I will look forward to seeing the full shot.
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I was wrong. It`s not a Case. It`s a little Cleveland tracked tractor.
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09-05-2010, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKtinman
This one belonged to my uncle:
He sure loved those old steamers.
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Very nice little Russell engine.
Any idea of the model?
Maybe about 15/45 HP?
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09-05-2010, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davwingman
I saw this one near Casper,Wy. a couple years ago.
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Nice old engine. Don`t think I ever saw one quite like it.
Any idea what make it is?
My wild guess would be a very early Baker engine.
Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like a center crank style engine.
By the design of the back end, it might be pre 1900.
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09-05-2010, 02:25 AM
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Thanks Mike
Cleveland was bought by Oliver in 1945
Cletrac.org - Just Everything Cletrac
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09-05-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1957
Nice old engine. Don`t think I ever saw one quite like it.
Any idea what make it is?
My wild guess would be a very early Baker engine.
Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like a center crank style engine.
By the design of the back end, it might be pre 1900.
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Here is another pic of the tractor. I don't know anything about it.
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09-06-2010, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davwingman
Here is another pic of the tractor. I don't know anything about it.
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Thanks for the extra pic.
This one is a mystery to me, but I`m a long way from being an expert.
I`d still guess it is pre-1900, whatever it is.
Back in those days there were many different manufacturers both big and small. Probably lots of stuff out there that I`ve never run across before.
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09-06-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1957
Very nice little Russell engine.
Any idea of the model?
Maybe about 15/45 HP?
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I really don't know much about the Russell. When I visited my 95 year-old uncle in 2004, he told me it was worth $40,000. He died a month later, and a "friend" who was helping my aunt sold it for $10,000. At least that was the amount she received for the Russell.
The same "friend" sold my uncle's guns for her. She was proud when she told me "I can't believe he got $90 for those old guns!" Uncle had a Model 36 S&W, a well-worn Winchester '06, and a Lebel rifle. Lots of other items disappeared, as well.
Curious that "friend" was so helpful and in such a hurry to assist, but has been conspicuously absent since I moved down a couple of months after uncle passed away.
My uncle told me he had a steam thresher, but someone had come onto the ranch and stole it. I imagine whoever took it knew what it was and exactly what they were doing.
Sad what some people will do to others for money.
If my memory is correct, uncle told me the Russell was a 1905 model. Here are a couple more photos of the Russell:
Last edited by AKtinman; 09-06-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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09-06-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKtinman
I really don't know much about the Russell. When I visited my 95 year-old uncle in 2004, he told me it was worth $40,000. He died a month later, and a "friend" who was helping my aunt sold it for $10,000. At least that was the amount she received for the Russell.
The same "friend" sold my uncle's guns for her. She was proud when she told me "I can't believe he got $90 for those old guns!" Uncle had a Model 36 S&W, a well-worn Winchester '06, and a Lebel rifle. Lots of other items disappeared, as well.
Curious that "friend" was so helpful and in such a hurry to assist, but has been conspicuously absent since I moved down a couple of months after uncle passed away.
My uncle told me he had a steam thresher, but someone had come onto the ranch and stole it. I imagine whoever took it knew what it was and exactly what they were doing.
Sad what some people will do to others for money.
If my memory is correct, uncle told me the Russell was a 1905 model.
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That is just down right criminal. Assuming the boiler was in good condition (you would need to pull the plates and inspect the inside of it as well as a water pressure test) that little engine ought to be worth at least that much.
Today, maybe more like $50,000 to $60,000. Having the rear lugs covered and the front wheel rings missing would hurt the value some, but that would not be difficult to fix.
The last 10 years or so, the prices these things bring have just been going through the roof.
In 1996 my dad sold his last full size engine when he moved to town. Got $15,000 for it. Fair price at the time. That same 22/70 Woods sold again last year. Rumor has it that it brought 60k.
Several other engines have brought higher prices than that at auction the last couple of years.
When I was a kid back in the 60s and 70s steam was a hobby that middle class people could get into without too much pain. But that is changing these days. Supply and demand.
There were 3 or 4 nice Russell engines at the Mt Pleasant show this year.
Don`t have all of the pics uploaded to photo bucket yet, but here is one that I do have up. Not the same model as your uncle`s old engine, but still a nice one.
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09-07-2010, 02:25 AM
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09-07-2010, 11:08 AM
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Mike, I thoroughly enjoyed your pictures. Great thread. Thank you!
My uncle's father operated a locomotive until his death around 1911, the year my uncle was born, which was uncle's impetus for his interest in steam. He had quite a collection of "Steam Traction" magazines, and he just beamed when he talked about his Russell. He occasionally fired it up and drove it around.
How amazing (and fortunate for us) that these "old irons" escaped the scrap metal drives of WWII.
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09-07-2010, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKtinman
How amazing (and fortunate for us) that these "old irons" escaped the scrap metal drives of WWII.
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That is what happened to most of them and why there are so few around today.
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09-12-2010, 01:04 PM
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09-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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09-13-2010, 09:03 AM
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09-13-2010, 09:39 AM
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A couple of electric street cars
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09-14-2010, 01:34 AM
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09-15-2010, 01:38 AM
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No Stanleys among the cars?
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09-16-2010, 01:40 AM
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There was one Stanley. A very nicely restored one. It`s been at the show for several years now. But somehow I missed getting a picture of it.
There is so much stuff at that show that it`s not possible to cover everything in one day.
Here are a few more pics. An unrestored 22/70 Woods they just brought in from Montana. A bit ugly, but still fully operational after all these years.
Probably made around 1916.
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09-18-2010, 01:02 AM
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09-18-2010, 02:33 PM
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