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Old 09-11-2010, 07:32 PM
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The news today said that the horrible blast and fire was caused by a ruptured gas main that was laid in '56 before the subdivision was built over it. A terrible tragedy that might have been avoided if authorities had acted on reports of gas smell. Probably a lack of manpower to follow up.

Last week about 50 miles from me a crude oil pipeline in or about Bolingbrook, Illinois cracked. It's another old line no one suspected was there. Turns out it supplies (I heard %7 of U.S. needs) crude oil from Canada. The line is shut down until they find the break. The search starts Monday. Meantime gas prices went up $.30 over the W.E.. There's no projection on when it will be repaired.

On a smaller note a 6 mile stretch of bridge about close to me has been deemed unsafe and was shutdown until funds can be found to completely rebuild it. Small stuff in the scheme of things I know, but it was built only 20 yrs ago. That bridge connects 2 interstates. So local traffic is now snarled with semis that can no longer use it. And the heavy traffic is tearing up the roads.

My personal opinion is our country is falling apart. Wait until a major power grid fails.
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  #2  
Old 09-11-2010, 08:10 PM
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Three weeks ago, the Long Island Railroad experienced a near total shutdown because of the failure of a critical piece of electrical equipment built and installed in 1913.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/ny...hutdown&st=cse

The $50 billion the President has proposed for infrastructure is only about a third of what would constitute a reasonable start. It has been 35 years since the Feds made any major effort to address these problems.

I realize, given he fact that the silly season is upon us, that this takes on political overtones, but it should not. The infrastructure needs repair and upgrades and people in the construction trades, where unemployment exceeds 17%, about twice the national average, need jobs.

America, once the envy of the world in terms of its highways, roads, rail system, airports, bridges, and electrical system, is fast becoming a second-rate power because of a lack of public investment.

I'll stop there out of respect for the rules of this Forum.


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Old 09-11-2010, 08:10 PM
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We can't seem find money to fix bridges, pipelines, and highways etc., but we can find money for welfare, benefits for illegal aliens, bailing out banks and GM etc. Something is really wrong with our local, state and federal governments.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:15 PM
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We can't seem find money to fix bridges, pipelines, and highways etc., but we can find money for welfare, benefits for illegal aliens, bailing out banks and GM etc. Something is really wrong with our local, state and federal governments.
Infrastructure doesn't vote, deadbeat recipients do.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:25 PM
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We can't seem find money to fix bridges, pipelines, and highways etc., but we can find money for welfare, benefits for illegal aliens, bailing out banks and GM etc. Something is really wrong with our local, state and federal governments.
Annual spending on welfare (TANF) — $4.5 billion — amounts to less than one percent of what was spent on the bank bailout (TARP) — $700 billion. Citibank alone received $25 billion, five times the cash transferred to mothers and children receiving public assistance in 2007. Top executives of banks bailed out in 2009 — about 600 guys — received an estimated $1.6 billion in bonuses in 2007. That’s a little over a third of what 1.6 million families got in cash from TANF in that year.

Why do you support corporate welfare for the super-rich, and seek to deny bare subsistence — an average of $426 per family per month — to the poor? Ask yourself, WWJD?


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Old 09-11-2010, 09:20 PM
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Down here in the Ft.Lauderdale area their building a new east west portion of I-595.Lots of money being spent to go fast to the other side of the county.Then if you live near the end I guess you'll have to double back?Or you keep going west and cross Alligator Alley.I can't see it even though It's gonna be a toll road.The 'Alley already is.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:21 PM
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What's wrong with you people??? We can't waste our tax money on roads, bridges, and utilities....it's needed for more important things like social tinkering....
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:28 PM
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I'm going to bet that I pay more in fuel taxes every year than anyone else here. What irks me is that in my home state, less than half of that money goes to actual transportation projects. The other half goes to schools, bicycle paths, etc. And they wonder why Oklahoma has some of the worst roads in the country....
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:35 PM
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Same with the lottery where the money was initially earmarked for education but mostly gets thrown into the "general fund". Why do they keep crying we need to spend more money on education?
Maybe we should just work, and let THEM decide how much money we're "allowed" every week.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620 View Post
Annual spending on welfare (TANF) $4.5 billion amounts to less than one percent of what was spent on the bank bailout (TARP) $700 billion. Citibank alone received $25 billion, five times the cash transferred to mothers and children receiving public assistance in 2007...
Why are you interjecting facts into this discussion?

If I want to believe that all our problems are caused by illegals and crack baby factories who are sucking up my hard-earned tax dollars who are you to burst my bubble?
  #11  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:30 AM
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$400 billion to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

$320 billion for FHA funding for at-risk new mortgagees.

$25 billion toward the new $75 billion "foreclosure prevention plan".

The role of the federal government is national defense and international & interstate commerce. The infrastructure of our nation falls into that category on both points.

The priorities of federal government power have been corrupted on every level. It really is time to get back to the basics.

Last edited by BarbC; 09-12-2010 at 07:42 AM.
  #12  
Old 09-12-2010, 08:33 AM
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The "stimulus" dollars in this area and in N.E. Illinois was spent on road resurface and bridge repair. Cook co., Illinois and surrounding counties referred to locally as "collar counties" are where the jobs are. Tens of thousands commute daily to Chicago and an area called the Northwest Corridor, a large area just N.W. of the city. All the arterial roads, and many, many smaller "town roads" were torn up since spring. A couple things come to mind: All the projects had new signs about 3X5 proclaiming stimulus money providing infrastructure improvement and jobs. Cost of the signs in Illinois was $800,000. All the jobs created were high paying construction related jobs. A lot of these non arterial roads were prematurely resurfaced, kinda like "busy work". I used to travel them every day. Non of the stimulus money went to recovery of the "everymans" jobs that have all but disappeared. What I'm saying is the whole thing looks like a giant dog n pony show designed to convince people the administration is actually doing something. Whatever gov. dept. that's responsible for inspecting the owners of underground pipelines, power grids, etc., should be working their butts off 7X24 to make sure the owners of said utility's are conducting proactive repairs. Such things are not visible to the public however so they're on the back burner.

There's an emmence BP/Amoco refinery about 8 miles north of me. 50 year old pipelines run under my city. Hardly a month goes by that one of these lines doesn't spring a leak. Currently there's a leak about 1.5 miles from me they've dug up and been working on for a month.
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:51 AM
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What are you people talking about? There is a great amount of infrastructure rebuilding and new development in various stages of completion all over the country.... Roads, bridges, power plants and electricity grids, water treatment plants, police stations, schools, hospitals, airports... on and on and on... many thousands of projects.

If you don't believe it, just click below for a recent Aug 30 2010 update. Ooooops. I missed the part about "U.S." in the OP Thread title. Sorry.... never mind.

FOXNews.com - Watchdog Agency: U.S. Wasted Billions in Rebuilding Iraq

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Old 09-12-2010, 09:01 AM
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What are you people talking about? There is a great amount of infrastructure rebuilding and new development going on all over the country.... Roads, bridges, power plants and electricity grids, water treatment plants, police stations, schools, hospitals, airports... on and on and on... many thousands of projects.
And every bit of it is w/ borrowed money-Iraq and here! Apparently, no one in charge of this stuff has ever had to live within his/her means or balanced a checkbook.
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Old 09-12-2010, 09:06 AM
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Why do you support corporate welfare for the super-rich, and seek to deny bare subsistence an average of $426 per family per month to the poor? Ask yourself, WWJD?Bullseye
This is the other extreme end of hyperbole on this issue. As usual, the answer lies in between. IF (big 'if') the funds were going to mothers and children in need it would be a different story (and I question the accuracy of the figure quoted in total as what funds are received from other assistance sources that make up the full price).

The FACT is that many able-bodied scammers are working the system to receive benefits that could help those truly in need because it's easier than working. The WWJD scolding is a cop out since it supposes that all of these funds are going to the purpose intended.

But as has been pointed out, why let the facts get in the way?

As far as "corporate welfare", you need look no farther than the folks you keep sending to congress who promise to "fight for you" to return more tax money to their state than the guy in the adjoining state and is treated like some treasure of a native son for it. Ever since the powers that be educated enough of their constituents that they could vote themselves money from the public till, the results were inevitable.

As far as the infrastructure goes - same reason; We have allowed those we sent to represent us to operate the county's budget in a way not one of us with any sense would consider operating our own. Constant deficit spending and creation of huge transportation and utility systems that are not paid for when they are built and nothing being put back in trust for the time when these systems weaken and crumble and need to be replaced.

The fools who spend their paychecks to buy houses and cars and vacations they can't afford are some of the first to be shocked when the car or house needs to be replaced or repaired and they are so far in debt they don't have the money to make the repairs and want someone to bail them out of their poor management practices.

WWJD ? I believe He would say that those who won't work (and there is a difference as opposed to those who can't ) should not eat, and not to spend that you've been blessed with frivolously. He gave to those in need but stressed personal responsibility and hatred for corruption and abuse.
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Old 09-12-2010, 09:35 AM
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WWJD ? I believe He would say that those who won't work (and there is a difference as opposed to those who can't ) should not eat, and not to spend that you've been blessed with frivolously. He gave to those in need but stressed personal responsibility and hatred for corruption and abuse.
I can't seem to find that in my New Testament. Should I have been looking for it in the Book of Fred? Or, is it in the Book of Glenn?

My New Testament includes Matthew 25:40, and it is from there, as well as the references to the injunctions concerning the correct treatment of the poor in Book of Ruth, in the Old Testament, that I draw my guidance.


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Old 09-12-2010, 10:05 AM
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I'll stop there out of respect for the rules of this Forum.


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Except you really can't help yourself, can you?
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620 View Post

I'll stop there out of respect for the rules of this Forum.


Bullseye
1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620 View Post
Ask yourself, WWJD?



Bullseye
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Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620 View Post
I can't seem to find that in my New Testament. Should I have been looking for it in the Book of Fred? Or, is it in the Book of Glenn?

My New Testament includes Matthew 25:40, and it is from there, as well as the references to the injunctions concerning the correct treatment of the poor in Book of Ruth, in the Old Testament, that I draw my guidance.


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3rd

"I'll stop there out of respect for the rules of this Forum."

Anytime...
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:26 AM
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And every bit of it is w/ borrowed money-Iraq and here! Apparently, no one in charge of this stuff has ever had to live within his/her means or balanced a checkbook.
We've only borrowed about $1.5 trillion this year (about 10% of GDP) . Yet, we tell ourselves that our GDP grew 1.6% last period. Borrow 10%... grow 1%. Do you we all have to be economists to figure this out?

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Old 09-12-2010, 10:37 AM
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The news today said that the horrible blast and fire was caused by a ruptured gas main that was laid in '56 before the subdivision was built over it. A terrible tragedy that might have been avoided if authorities had acted on reports of gas smell. Probably a lack of manpower to follow up.

Last week about 50 miles from me a crude oil pipeline in or about Bolingbrook, Illinois cracked. It's another old line no one suspected was there. Turns out it supplies (I heard %7 of U.S. needs) crude oil from Canada. The line is shut down until they find the break. The search starts Monday. Meantime gas prices went up $.30 over the W.E.. There's no projection on when it will be repaired.

On a smaller note a 6 mile stretch of bridge about close to me has been deemed unsafe and was shutdown until funds can be found to completely rebuild it. Small stuff in the scheme of things I know, but it was built only 20 yrs ago. That bridge connects 2 interstates. So local traffic is now snarled with semis that can no longer use it. And the heavy traffic is tearing up the roads.

My personal opinion is our country is falling apart. Wait until a major power grid fails.
Atlas Shrugged is coming to fruition. Ayn Rand could see into the future.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:48 AM
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Speaking from confirmable knowledge about the way things actually are in the US.

For many years, the Federal government put money into the levy system for New Orleans. It was SUPPOSED to go to building better levies, and to maintain the levies that were in place. It never went there. We are talking billions of dollars over the years.

Each year, a certain mayor of New Orleans would ask for Fed funding for N.O. that would not be approved. The only fund available to be readily accessed was the levy funds so it got robbed and the levy system suffered.

Once Katrina hit, everyone complained and the Feds was stuck paying out even more since the money they had put into the system over the years was misused on a lot of pork, government corruption and secial interests. We all know where the money was spent and we know who benefitted.

Many companies allocate money to go into maintaining their pipelines but the money always finds other needs more important.

I own a farm in a rural area of central Louisiana but do not live there. In 1972, the 9 miles of road that runs past my farm, as well as others, had the money allocated that would blacktop the road. Now some 38 yrs later, the road is still dirt, filled with potholes and washed out in places. Yet on the state maps and by state dept of transportation, the road is blacktop and in great shape. I have discussed this with Senators, Representatives and one Governor. They all show me the maps saying the road was blacktopped and maintained annually each year. I flew over the area and videotaped the road for them. It showed the dirt road well and they then told me it was not the road where my farm is located. Where the money actually went is unknown. Where the money is going to maintain it is unknown.

The home in which I live is in an upperscale subdivision. The problem is there is a drainage ditch behind my house that overflows with a good rain. Several homes have gotten water in them and these are quarter million dollar homes. I went to the town government. They do not have to clean the ditch, even though it poses health hazards and is a breeding dround for snakes. The town must have 3200 homes before they have to keep the ditch up. I went to the Parish and had every one of the engineers and commission members to my house to look for themselves. They said the ditch has not been touched since 1932. They said the ditch would not be touched in the next 50 yrs either but the money has been allocated to keep flooding down. The money has been spent over the years paying commissioners and supervisors six figure incomes. They pull the money from project funds and put it in the salary budgets.

A crew came out last week to trim trees over the street because limbs were hitting school busses but we do not have school busses on this road. There was one man operating the bucket truck cutting tree limbs. Another man was operating the front end loader to put the debris into a dump truck. Another man was driving the dump truck. So we had three men working. We also had five men driving pickup trucks, with the engines running to keep their air conditioning running as they sat watching for over four hours. The drivers were being paid as political favors, they have no real duties at any time but get paid twice a month.

We have a bridge in Louisiana named for a former Governor. Only problem is it was built 1/4 mile from where the road was on one side. They then had to buy the land to redirect the four lane highway to make the roadway meet the bridge. The land and added construction costs billions but the land they bought the original road was across land belonging to a high level politician and then had to make a road that costs more to make it meet the bridge.

Just saying.

Last edited by oldman45; 09-12-2010 at 10:56 AM.
  #22  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:08 AM
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I recently read that every dollar the Federal government takes in is consumed by three programs--Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

There is no money left over for any of the legitimate functions of the government, i.e., those spelled out in the constitution--it all has to be borrowed.

Now, we've either got too little coming in or too much going out. Since the income to the government has grown from 6.5 Billion in 1940 to 2.1 trillion in 2009, an average annual growth rate of 8.7%, how can one say we are not contributing enough?

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

The problem lies in the unconstitutional direct payments to individuals. Not supposed to happen from the Feds; OK if the states do it.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:36 AM
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I believe there's a box on the 1040 form to contribute extra. Knock yourself out.
Any taxpayer can send in as much as he wants to.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:44 AM
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I rarely watch 60 minutes. Two weeks ago the lead story was of interest so I watched. As it turns out medicare fraud last year cost us 60 billion. They focused on phony drug stores that buy (actually friggen buy) a list of real medicare names from hospital workers. Going rate is $10 a name. Once they've established a liocation, and got some names, they bill medicare for non existant services, prostheses, drugs, etc.. All the billing is for products, services, never rendered. Our government shoots the dough to these clip artists as there's a time limit on payments rendered for such services. A couple of seniors that closley monitored their medicare accounts noted bills paid in outrageous amounts. Being dutiful citizens they reported this to medicare administration. No response or follow up or corrective action ever taken over periods of 6 months or more.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:50 AM
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Cottage industry in South Florida. They rent a storefront, bill for services and by the time anyone's the wiser, they're gone.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:57 AM
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I believe there's a box on the 1040 form to contribute extra. Knock yourself out.
Any taxpayer can send in as much as he wants to.
Just send every tax payer an invoice for the yearly budget deficit. If the budget deficit is 30% over tax receipts, then every tax payer gets an invoice for 30% more of what they had paid in on their 1040. Washington will immediately have the support of the people to reduce spending as well as tackle fraud and abuse once that first invoice arrives in the mail.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:59 AM
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As they say, put your money where your mouth is.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:05 PM
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60 billion would pay 140845070 welfare payments at $426 a month. One would think our government genius's would get right on it. Or is government genius a contradiction in terms.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:39 PM
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So when are we goin to detinate? None of this is mathmaticly possible. At every level is stealing, lieing, vote buying, overcharging, cheating, takeing, fraud, what am I missing? We all are liveing on counterfit money. Every move the potus and other high officals is to build up the rest of the world and pull us down towards 3rd world level.
Who or what does this country actualy produce anymore? Almost everything or object we buy is from china or elsewhere. Almost every "job" I see is non productive. You see peons working their butts off for minimum and tips. At the same time some executives think they are worth 10 million a year. We are already bankrupt, its just that generaly speaking, the goverment and us indivigualy dont want to publicly admit it because no matter what saveings or money we have wouldnt be worth nothing. Sure makes a lot of sense to me to borrow money to give the third world.
On the other hand lets say we all give ourselves a million dollars. Who are you going to get to grease your car or cook a burger for you?
Look at this country less than a hundred years ago and back. Just about everybody in the nation had a productive job or died. So what will it be or take to burst the bubble?
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:52 PM
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I say we just kill all the poor people presently here-let all the Mexicans in who want to work rebuilding our infrastructure in exchange for special citizenship (ie citizenship without voting privileges) and a reduced wage. Once they have worked for 10 years without a felony-they get full citizenship with voting rights and a 50" flat screen from Best Buy.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:53 PM
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On the other hand lets say we all give ourselves a million dollars. Who are you going to get to grease your car or cook a burger for you?
Answer= Open Borders

As far as giving ourselves money, we're getting real good at it. We paid ourselves up to $4,000.00 to destroy our cars - "Cash For Clunkers" . Now that we are the majority shareholder of GM, we are going to give ourselves an $8,000 federal rebate to buy the car we produced with our company-- the Volt.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:08 PM
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Name me one example where Jesus did something for someone that they could have done on their own. He helped those unable to help themselves.

Does a degreed professional deserve a large salary after spening years in college? I think so if they earn it.

Does a multidegreed professional deserve a huge salary if they earn it? I think so. The man that saved Chrysler earned his bonus. The man that saved Ford earned his bonus. Am I upset when the surgeon saved my life charged $22,000 for a two hour operation after spending 12 yrs in college? Nope. He earned his money. I make a nice sum each year but I spent a long time in school studying to get where I am now and I worked long hours to get the acclaim I have and the reputation while others were out partying. I did without to buy things I needed for work. If you want something, you have to give up something. Those in power of business risk a lot to be where they are and there is rewards in risks.

Does an uneducated peon deserve a large salary after dropping out of school and doing who knows what? Nope and they do not deserve government support either.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:28 PM
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Name me one example where Jesus did something for someone that they could have done on their own...
The whole purpose of the man being on this planet was to help those who refused to help themselves.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:34 PM
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No argument on most that oldman. However, I remember jesus and his disciples getting hit with a tax bill and jesus had them go fishing, and told them money would be in the fish. Wish I could do that. Think I have to read that again. Maybe they sold the catch to pay the taxs? But I thought literaly coins were in the fish when I read it years ago.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:38 PM
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Frailer, I dont read it that way. Please explain with scripture, not liberal democrat docturne.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:44 PM
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Annual spending on welfare (TANF) $4.5 billion amounts to less than one percent of what was spent on the bank bailout (TARP) $700 billion.
TANF is just one program. Total federal welfare spending is just under $500 billion a year. To date net TARP(payments less what has been paid back) is under $90 billion and falling.

Like Ladder13 says, infastructure doesn't vote and welfare recipients do. Also, infastructure maintainance doesn't make for good photo ops. Ribbon cutting for new roads and bridges does.

Bob
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:58 PM
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TANF is just one program. Total federal welfare spending is just under $500 billion a year. To date net TARP(payments less what has been paid back) is under $90 billion and falling.

Bob

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Old 09-12-2010, 02:11 PM
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I say we just kill all the poor people presently here-let all the Mexicans in who want to work rebuilding our infrastructure in exchange for special citizenship (ie citizenship without voting privileges) and a reduced wage. Once they have worked for 10 years without a felony-they get full citizenship with voting rights and a 50" flat screen from Best Buy.
You don't have to kill 'em to get rid of poverty--just tax it out of existence.

Put a $20,000 per year tax on being poor and--poof!--poverty goes away, probably within one year!
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:31 PM
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Just send every tax payer an invoice for the yearly budget deficit. If the budget deficit is 30% over tax receipts, then every tax payer gets an invoice for 30% more of what they had paid in on their 1040. Washington will immediately have the support of the people to reduce spending as well as tackle fraud and abuse once that first invoice arrives in the mail.
I expect they'd have more on their hands than "support". I like that idea. I'd also like to see election day on the 15th of April. Perhaps you'd be allowed one vote for every tax dollar you paid the preceeding year.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:33 PM
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Name me one example where Jesus did something for someone that they could have done on their own. He helped those unable to help themselves.
...and I never read where he helped anyone with a government program.
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:00 PM
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I expect they'd have more on their hands than "support".
Well... they would need to present it in a thoughtful manner--

Dear US Tax Payer,

Enclosed is your 2010 Budget Deficit Invoice in the amount of $6,359. We hope you enjoyed being 'Stimulated'.

ps. Lawmakers are discussing a $150billion Supplemental Spending Bill due to unforeseen Healthcare costs. If the Bill is passed, this will result in a Supplemental Tax Invoice to you in the amount of $1238.72.

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  #42  
Old 09-12-2010, 03:18 PM
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Frailer, I dont read it that way. Please explain with scripture, not liberal democrat docturne.
You're absolutely right; my response was inappropriate anyway. I'll trouble you no more with my "docturne."
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:27 PM
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You're absolutely right; my response was inappropriate anyway. I'll trouble you no more with my "docturne."
y dat's a lo blo
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:27 PM
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No sweat, jesus came first to save man and also gave us instructions on how to better our lot. He gave a lot of instruction on the use of money and he healed people that couldnt heal themselves. God also provided manna when his people were on the run. He also told us we would live by the sweat of our brow. Really, I reconised your "slip of the lip" I never thought you really meant the way it was wrote and was trying to goad you into correcting it for us. Thanks
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:07 PM
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I'll stop there out of respect for the rules of this Forum.
Bullseye
Sayin' it ain't doin' it.......


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Ask yourself, WWJD?
Bullseye
I'm disappointed here.
While this is a board composed substantially of conservatives, I do believe more liberal minded members have the right to voice their opinions.
However, this just comes off as a goad directed at the Christian conservatives here.
Religion is a restricted topic for all, so don't play it like a trump when needed.

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WWJD ? I believe He would say that those who won't work (and there is a difference as opposed to those who can't ) should not eat, and not to spend that you've been blessed with frivolously. He gave to those in need but stressed personal responsibility and hatred for corruption and abuse.
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I can't seem to find that in my New Testament. Should I have been looking for it in the Book of Fred? Or, is it in the Book of Glenn?

Bullseye
2 Thessalonians / 3:10

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Take it too far afield, interject religion into an infrastructure thread, and it gets
CLOSED.
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