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Old 10-07-2010, 02:33 PM
walnutred walnutred is offline
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Default WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?

I visited the Smithsonian yesterday and was looking at the pictures in the D-Day section of the military exhibit. Once of the pictures had a beach obstacle in the foreground with a dead US soldier beside it. Near the soldier was a M1 Garand with a 1903 Springfield lying across the Garand.

This struck me as curious that someone would have been issued a 1903 for the Normandy invasion. I thought the '03 had mostly been replaced by the M1's by the time Normandy rolled around.

Maybe it was the photographers rifle and he laid it there just long enough to take the picture.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:57 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ BLACKHAWKNJ is offline
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IIRC as the Army expanded for WWII the newer units received the newer equipment while the older-pre 1943 say-units-kept their older equipment.
I recall seeing a picture of some of the dead (RIP) of the 29th Infantry Division at Omaha beach, they were wearing ankle boots with leggings and Parsons jackets, I recall seeing a picture of one the higher number divisions from October, 1944-combat boots and M1943 field jackets. I also recall a letter in American Rifleman years ago by a WWII Lieutenant, he mentions his "M1903 tightly zeroed at 200 yards", told how he took out some Germans and rescued some POWs in late 1944 or early 1945. I read an account by an artilleryman who found himself fighting as an infantryman during the Ardennes Offensive, he was issued
an M-1 Garand-he had never seen one before, he joined the Army in 1941
and qualified on the M1903.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:59 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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It is my undestanding that with the rapid WWII growth of the US Military (I think it grew from about 300,000 total to something like 1.5 million service members) there were not enough M1's around to issue to all, so some issuance of the '03 was necessary. The '03A3 I beleive was specifically created for WWII issue.

I also beleive that some National Guard and Reserve units still had '03 Springfileds when they were called to active duty.

But, I could be wrong.

Peace,
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:01 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Designated Snipers??
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:16 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Sir, the '03 had been largely replaced by the M1 by D-Day, but only "largely," not entirely. '03s were common among MPs, combat engineers, truck drivers, etc. all the way to the end of the war, and even some infantry units as well.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:40 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Somewhere in one of Gen. Bradley's books he wrote that he kept an '03 around and preferred it. I think he may have been referring to his time in Sicily (admittedly almost a year earlier), but I cannot recall. I always wondered just what a general (corps commander) actually did with a rifle... ?

On the other hand, I am sure if I had been in his shoes, I certainly would have wanted one to at least be somewhere close by.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:43 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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The 03 was a better platform for grenade launching than the Garand and was used for that with some outfits.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:00 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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My Uncle John (age 92) entered the Army straight from his service in the CCC. When the war started he was in one of the 1st groups sent overseas (many decorations,CBI badge,7 battle stars). While over for a visit I showed him a new M1 I recently acquired, he showed little interest. When I asked he said he was issued a 1903 at the start of basic and that is what he finished with. Almost everyone in his unit had 03`s according to his recollection. He was in the salvage corp,recovered vehicles and equipment from the battlefield. He said they saw quite a bit of action, especially when they were recovering equipment and the Germans would counter attack or they encountered groups that were cut off from German lines. Great person to talk and spend time with,still a strong and proud man.

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Old 10-07-2010, 05:25 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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My Uncle Wesley went to the pacific with a 1903 .
went most of the first year with it.
Got a new M-1 and at Iwo found/aquired a carbine.
As I've said before ,he loved the carbine..

God rest his soul
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:53 PM
kraigwy kraigwy is offline
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Same with my father, he was in the SP in WWII, and Korea. He liked the M1 Carbine better then the M1.

He bragged about killing a Water Buffalo with the Cabine, so I had to match him, killed one in Vietnam with a M16A1.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:08 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Don't shortchange the 03 - I was issued one during the Korean War. It was a sweet shooting rifle = just didn't fire as fast.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:17 PM
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As I understand it, the 03 was used in the front line for grenade launching, and by combat engineers who had not been issued with a Garand or an M1 carbine. For a general weapon, the pecking order ran something like:

1) M1 Garand
2) M1 carbine
3) Thompson/Grease gun
4) 1903

If your unit was down the pecking order, then you got an 03.

For sniping, I believe the 03A4 was the weapon of choice.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:30 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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There is a photo of Col. Darby, who founded the Rangers, on a motorcycle. He had a Spingfield in a boot on the cycle.

Of course, he also had a Colt .45 auto and a commando knife.

The Springfield wasn't inferior to the enemy's weapons in most cases. It was on par with the Arisaka and the Mauser '98. Couldn't keep up with the Stgw 44 assault rifle, of course, but was more accurate and powerful.

And our riflemen were supported by BAR's, machineguns, and Thompsons. Many had the fast-firing .30 carbines, too.

When I saw this, I thought it was about the Colt M-1903 .32 automatic pistol. It was General Officer issue, but many US generals preferred the .45 when near the front.

Many OSS agents and other special ops personnel had .32's, as did many soldiers who brought their own, often in defiance of formal orders. And a lot were supplied to French resistance fighters and agents and to British SOE operatives. I read an account by a Norwegian agent who was armed with one as Germans pursued him on skis. (David Howarth, "We Die Alone")

Finally, a long way from Normandy, Capt. Ted Lawson stated in, "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" that he took his wife's .32 Colt, as well as his .45 on the historic Doolittle mission. His B-25 crew had many private pistols and knives.

T-Star

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Old 10-07-2010, 06:33 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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My DDay Dad (still kicking) told me he never saw a Garand until some days after he landed.

correction - he saw them, he just wasn't given one..and he didn't like it at first as he trained with the 1903.

He said the first one he got was full of cosmo and he didn't know how to take it apart to clean it. He said he put it aside and picked one up from someone who didn't need one anymore.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:00 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Also the '03 in the picture could have belonged to someone in the Navy beachmasters party.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:25 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Infantry scouts were issued 1903s and tracer ammo. You were supposed to use these to mark enemy positions. Generally, the 1903 would find itself "combat lossed" or thrown away as soon as something else could be obtained for use in this role.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:56 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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I was issued to the grenadier.The early m-1 grenade launchers would not function on semi auto while it was in place, thus the issue of a m1903 it would function with the launcher in place
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:25 AM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Some USMC reserve units that were activated for the Korean War went to Korea still armed with water cooled Browning mg's and 1903's.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:36 AM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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I was watching the Military Channel last night and it was about the Marines at Guadalcanal fighting the Japs. They were all issued the 03.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:37 AM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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In Phillip B. Sharp's book, The Rifle in America, there is a photo of the complete kit of a Normandy-bound paratrooper. It included a M1903 Springfield with a grenade launcher attached and several rifle grenades.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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The Navy was still using the 1903 at Great Lakes for small arms drills and marksmanship range use in 1952.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:57 AM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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The 1903A3 was used by snipers during WWII and done the job better than the grand. Shot one for one season in High Power and it was a job to do it with stripper clips.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:44 PM
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WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy? WHo would still have been carrying a 1903 at Normandy?  
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Until the popit valve was issued for the M1 the 03 was the issue weapon for a rifle grenadier. Also, a lot of older soldiers prefered the 03 as they had more years of experience with it. Omar Bradley was supposed to have carried one on occasion.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:01 PM
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My Dad went in the Army a couple of days after Pearl Harbor @ 18y/o. He often related that in BootCamp, the only time he shot (or even saw)an M1 was once. That was for 2 shots,,like everyone else,,with everyone using the same rifle.
Stand in what seemed like a mile long line waiting your turn. One at a time, step up, were given 30seconds of verbal instructions on the rifle, then allowed to trigger off 2 shots at a target placed approx 50yrds out.
No one ever changed the target,,no one even looked at it. The rifle was smoking from the heat of the metal and the oil in the wood.

Their regular rifle range qualification was with '03Springfields and a few 1917 Enfields.
Rifle 'Drill' was with wooden rifles.

Thompson SMG was issue in Tanker school along with it's training. Those were yanked and replaced with M3's shortly after they got to France.
He liked the M3. Short and handy inside the Sherman. Tough to get out of that drivers hatch with a TSMG.
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