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Old 10-11-2010, 11:00 AM
ConditionOne ConditionOne is offline
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Default Question of trigger pull when shooting

Didn't feel this simple question worthy of the Competitive shooting forum, so I thought I'd ask here.

I have the grip, and stance down, but trigger pull is still puzzling me.

In DA, when I squeeze the trigger, the pistol slightly torques no matter how firm I hold it, and the front sight moves. if I squeeze the trigger and 'stage it' for a brief moment as if shooting SA, I can realign the front sight on target and complete the trigger pull. But is this method a feature or a bug for me to use?

Since I grip high on the revolver, I tend to pull from the bottom half of the trigger with the front pad of my finger. As some of my S&W triggers are smooth, my finger tends to slide down there anyway. Is this ok?

Seems if I try too hard or relax too much, I can't get consistent groups. I can get a good groups of 2, 3, and sometimes 4, but then I start getting flyers. Trying to find that "gun zen" moment where I can hold it all together for all the shots.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:39 AM
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On the Smith and Wesson FACTORY website, they used to have some videos you could click on with Jerry Miculek in them showing the various hand positions he uses in double-action shooting for close/fast, medium/rapid and long/deliberate shooting. I really think they are "right on".

I happen to use (and have used for 30 years) exactly the hand positions/finger positions that he suggests in these videos in competition shooting and have done quite well over the years with them, whether it be in the PPC or NRA Action Shooting or IPSC Revolver.

Try to get a peek at them if you can, it's worth seeing. Some people will have other systems and it really comes down to what works for you, personally. But the Miculek videos are a place to start. Good luck.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:47 AM
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I stage my triggers when target shooting D/A.Works for me.I always shoot D/A.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:53 AM
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Shooting DA well is an achievement that will only come with practice. The act of "staging" the trigger is a subject that invites quite a lot of debate. It is a practice that can be mastered, but is mostly useful for target shooting in a controlled environment. That is, one takes their time about making the shot. I do not use this method, but many do.

The trigger pull on revolvers vary greatly. One thing that can cause you to have difficulty shooting DA is a trigger that "stacks". That is when the trigger pull increases in weight the further back it is pulled. These triggers take a lot more practice to shoot well. For now, I will assume that you have a decent DA trigger.

When shooting DA with a revolver, I use the first knuckle of the trigger finger, not the pad of the finger. The trigger needs to be pulled rearward with a consistant amount of pressure, and should be pulled continuously, without changing the speed at which it is being pulled. Many people think that pulling the trigger very fast is the way to shoot before the sights go out of alignment, and thusly off target. This does not work.

You must regain and hold the sight alignment and sight picture while bringing the trigger completely rearward in one smooth continuous motion. It need not be lightening fast, but trying to do it too slowly will cause you to have pauses in the rearward motion, making it harder to keep things lined up.

Dry firing is the absolute best way to find the optimum speed that you can get that trigger working smoothly without upsetting the sights. You will find a trigger pull "pace" that will be smooth, continuous and fairly fast that will work.

Do not be discouraged when the sights move as you start pulling the trigger. No person in the world can hold a gun perfectly steady in DA shooting. The sights will move initially. As you continue with the rearward press, let your trigger finger work with the rest of your hand to get those sights back on target and keep it there throughout the remainder of the trigger pull.

It is almost like "stacking", without the hesitation. Easier said than done. It requires a lot of practice, and dry firing is a great way to get in a ton of practice. In time, you will be able to speed up the trigger pull to a pace that is comfortable and rewarding!

Good luck,


WG840
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Last edited by Wheelgunner840; 10-11-2010 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:07 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelgunner840 View Post
Shooting DA well is an achievement that will only come with practice. The act of "staging" the trigger is a subject that invites quite a lot of debate. It is a practice that can be mastered, but is mostly useful for target shooting in a controlled environment. That is, one takes their time about making the shot. I do not use this method, but many do.

The trigger pull on revolvers vary greatly. One thing that can cause you to have difficulty shooting DA is a trigger that "stacks". That is when the trigger pull increases in weight the further back it is pulled. These triggers take a lot more practice to shoot well. For now, I will assume that you have a decent DA trigger.

When shooting DA with a revolver, I use the first knuckle of the trigger finger, not the pad of the finger. The trigger needs to be pulled rearward with a consistant amount of pressure, and should be pulled continuously, without changing the speed at which it is being pulled. Many people think that pulling the trigger very fast is the way to shoot before the sights go out of alignment, and thusly off target. This does not work.

You must regain and hold the sight alignment and sight picture while bringing the trigger completely rearward in one smooth continuous motion. It need not be lightening fast, but trying to do it too slowly will cause you to have pauses in the rearward motion, making it harder to keep things lined up.

Dry firing is the absolute best way to find the optimum speed that you can get that trigger working smoothly without upsetting the sights. You will find a trigger pull "pace" that will be smooth, continuous and fairly fast that will work.

Do not be discouraged when the sights move as you start pulling the trigger. No person in the world can hold a gun perfectly steady in DA shooting. The sights will move initially. As you continue with the rearward press, let your trigger finger work with the rest of your hand to get those sights back on target and keep it there throughout the remainder of the trigger pull.

It is almost like "stacking", without the hesitation. Easier said than done. It requires a lot of practice, and dry firing is a great way to get in a ton of practice. In time, you will be able to speed up the trigger pull to a pace that is comfortable and rewarding!

Good luck,


WG840
That sums it up quite well. BTW, for practice purchase two sets of snap caps, it's nearly guaranteed you'll wear out at least one set.

Keys to effective practice. One, pick a target point, a light switch or round sticker on a wall is fine. Two, watch your sight alignment as you stroke the trigger.

There are two goals you want to work towards during dry fire practice. One is the minimum amount of movement in the sights as you pull the trigger. The second is to develop a motion that has the sights returning to your point of aim just as the trigger breaks. BTW, don't be afraid to experiment with finger position and the pressure point to find what works best for you. I find applying pressure with a bias towards the side of my finger and a motion that is a mix of down and back works for me. It will take time to get there but it can be done.

Finally, don't expect perfection or even try for it when shooting double action. It's a Combat technique, not a Target technique. In Combat there ain't nothing wrong with shooting a 4 inch group at 30 feet, it will do the job just fine. If you want to shoot tiny little groups, just cock the gun and shoot it in single action.
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:33 PM
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I use the middle 'pad' on my index finger for DA. I find it gives me much more control and greater strength than using the tip of the finger.
I admit I stack the trigger when DA shooting,,something I started using way back when shooting alot of Bullseye.
I got pretty good at it. I shot revolver only for may years using DA in the timed and rapid fire sequences. I shot in the low 290's my best years with a K22 revolver. Certainly nothing that was competitive with the best shooters there but I was happy with the results.

My older brother shot everything including the slowfire portion in DA with a Colt MkIII in 22rf. He was able to put up scores on the indoor & outdoor courses in the same low 290's fireing all DA.
He shoots DA using the first joint of his index finger and pulls straight through with little hesitation. The Colt had a lighter DA trigger pull than my old K22 did, but that's just his way of doing it even today.
Lots of practice and finding your own comfortable way of shooting will produce results.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:40 PM
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Default Trigger pull..

For several years I was the "Top Gun"at my agency..I was also the Rangemaster and every one said I cheated as I could practice any time I wanted..almost true and in that time I discovered things that I never would have if I had not had the patience..

On a revolver there are 6 different trigger pulls, or how every many cylinders you have..this is due to the hand pushing up on the Star or Ratchet on the cylinder..each one can not be fitted to the same tolerances and thus you get a little longer pull on one cylinder and a little longer on another one..it is up to you to "feel" and determine how it reacts, and I used the staging method to determine this..

I would mark my 686-4 with red nail polish that indicated when I closed the cylinder and used that mark on the scallop on of the cylinder to indicate the longest and hardest trigger pull..thus I knew my first pull had to be harder and required more concentration..after that they were all "staged" and it worked out perfectly..

As the Duty weapon was the one I had to shoot the matches with I always knew where the first pull should line up and what I needed to make it count..

I still have that Smith and it is still a pleasure to shot, impress and enjoy..
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:25 PM
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I agree 100 % of what has been said so far with some added info. Range time- learning recoil, a grip that is good enough not too much, muscle memory, getting the sights back to the target as fast as you can, and keeping from anticipating recoil (pushing down) are all things that you will learn/control at the range. Smoothing out the gun (target guns), ammo choice, and the grip all help when trying to shoot a DA revolver fast. Add to it shooting stationary targets vs moving or engaging many different targets are all things you will learn to do as you shoot at the range. None of this comes overnight but it does come. When learning to shoot well it is always a good idea to park the ego and seek out other great shooters- I have learned a ton by asking questions, watching closely to what their habits were/are, and keeping an open mind of being able to learn something every time I go to the range. One of the best pieces of advise I remember hearing is "perfect practice makes perfect" you can blow ammo down range and have a bad habit and never get much better but once you learn the craft, practice perfectly is what you want to do.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
In DA, when I squeeze the trigger, the pistol slightly torques no matter how firm I hold it, and the front sight mov
You are "milking the grip" which means you ae moving fingers other than the trigger finger. Very common problem, especially when you are "pulling the trigger" rather than doing a trigger press.

To practice without the gun, touch your thumb and middle finger together and move move your trigger finger smoothly back and forth without moving any other fingers. Tough to do, huh?
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