Dear Smith and Wesson Forum I have a couple of questions about S&W and the United States Marine Corps. Did the United States Marine Corps ever issue Smith and Wesson handguns? And what models did they issue? any and all help in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely and respectfully mg357 a proud member of the Smith and Wesson Forum.

I believe that Marine Corp pilots were issued Victory revolvers in WW2 and possibly later. I'm sure others will add to this.
John

Sir.
Way back when, I was issued Model 41 S&W to use for .22 rf portion of 2700 matches. Pistol team shoots.
Bill@Yuma

I believe that some .38 Long Colt Hand Ejectors were issued pre-Colt M1909.

Sir, Marine embassy guards in some countries used to be issued N-frame .357s. Whether they were Model 27s or 28s I don't know.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

__________________
Wishin' don't make it so.

I don't know this for sure, but in all probability, U.S. Model 1917s were issued during WWI - my understanding is that although the Army got the bulk of them, most of the services got some.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I am certainly no expert; however, I was Air Force stationed in Wash DC in mid-1970s. I lived in VA not far from Quanico and utilized their PX/Commissary etc. I recall seeing female Marine Gate Guard Security personnel carrying round butt S&W M-10s. I do not recall what the males were carrying......seems I have always had an eye for the female members of our species. They were Marines, not civilian rent-a-cops. Keep shootin'

Marine Security Guards that I knew were issued S&W Model 10 four-inch pencil barrels loaded with FMJ ammo. There were also a FEW barracks duty Marines that were issued the same, even a few Rugers. This was from guys that carried them.

Drill Instructors prior to 1959 also carried revolvers while on duty.

I only saw one ONCE in the four years I was in and that was at Infantry Training School-Camp Pendleton. MP's, OOD's, guard duty and armory personnel carried M1911A1's safety wired shut, empty, and with two mags loaded with five rounds each in pouches on a cartridge belt.

Most Marines only saw wheelguns on training films...all were model 10's.

__________________
The Last Standing Knight

I've seen on the Net that Marine Embassy guards had M-19's at times, mostly M-10's or Ruger Service-Sixes. Until Ron's post above, never heard of them having N-frame S&W's.

The only official use in the US military of N-frames that I've encountered was use of M-29's by para-rescuemen in Alaska. That followed a downed pilot being eaten by a bear while an unarmed helo crew waited helpless. That was in an Air Force magazine many years ago. I don't know if the purchase of the .44 Magnums was made locally, via Unit funds.

I do think that whoever the weapon-phobic officer was who sent rescue crews out unarmed in Alaska (or anywhere else) should have been seriously discliplined. At the least, his Officer Efficiency Report should have noted this poor judgement.

I wonder what effect having to stand by and not help had psychologically on the pararescue team. And I think the whole issue of aircrew being better trained on handguns and being issued good ones is more important than the brasshats seem to think.

I've mentioned one downed pilot in the first Iraq war who could have probably saved himself from capture by a lone Iraqi, had he had more confidence in his ability to use his M-9 well. A USAF SP did kill a man armed with an AK-47 at a US base, with an M-9, at about 80 yards. This was a bicycle cop, who had only his sidearm available.

T-Star

Not an issued gun, but there is a S&W Hand Ejector captured in Nicaragua by a Marine officer - and then used by him - sitting in the Museum on P.I. The original captured holster and belt were used, with a chunk off another black belt added on to make it fit.

Some M&P .45s have seen use, at least for T&E.

People involved in some black programs in the 60s had suppressed S&W 9mm pistols in small numbers.

Oh: check your thread on personal weapons in use by US troops. I posted there about Bill Jordan telling me that he carried a M-1917 S&W as a Marine officer assigned to mop up Jap holdouts on Pacific islands. Bill also had a 12-gauge pump shotgun, I think a Winchester M-12. This reflected his background in the Border Patrol, before that war.

Also in that topic, you'll find a post by Cal-Mex, about the .357 Magnum carried by a famous Marine officer who was later CIA station chief in Mexico. Phil Roettenger, I believe? The gun is pictured there, and is engraved with the names of some island campaigns in which he fought. One was Torokina, which rang a bell, as I'm now reading a book by the founder of Naval fighter squadron VF-17, Tom Blackburn. His Corsairs operated out of a base close to the front lines there.
The book is down in the car, but I think the title is, Jolly Rogers, after the squadron insignia of a pirate flag. (They flew Corsairs. Get it? )

It' a great book. The VF-17 pilots all seem to have had .45 autos, not Victory Model .38's. And they wore them all of the time in many cases, as there were snakes and hidden-out Japs on those islands. On one island, where ground fighting was still in progress, they scrounged .30 carbines, in case the base was attacked.

You can find some of these guys on Wikipedia. I found an entry for Ira "Ike" Kepford this week.He was a well known VF-17 ace.

The book is quite good, although a bit disdainful of USAAF aircrews and New Zealand P-40 pilots. Blackburn seems to have forgotten that the top two US aces of WW II operated in that theater, and both flew P-38's.

The New Zealand P-40 pilots (and US P-40 drivers) were limited by the Allison engines to about 14,000 feet operating ceiling for good performance. That wasn't their fault: it was the nature of the beast that they flew. Some got kills in spite of the aircraft's limitations! Good Lord, in the CBI Theater, P-40 pilots did quite well against Jap planes of superior capability in some regards.

Blackburn does admire the technique of B-25 crews skip-bombing Jap ships. Some 5th Air Force B-25's were also equipped with added machineguns in the nose to better strafe Jap forces and ships.

I read an account in an Air Classics magazine by a New Zealand P-40 pilot. He did well, until shipped home with wounds that ended his military service. These guys were gallant allies, and they often got shot at by US Navy pilots, who evidently had trouble recognizing a P-40! They got so tired of it that they painted half the tail end of their fuselages white to get the attention of the sailors! And they still sometimes got shot at, probably mainly by carrier pilots.

These P-40's often were the close escort for B-25's, as their engines wouldn't let them fly "high cover" missions.

The P-40 had its limitations, but US, South African, British, Aussie, and New Zealand pilots used them to knock down a lot of German and Italian planes in North Africa and Italy, before those units got Mustangs or Spitfires.

Sorry to stray, but thought this would interest some. Blackburn does make it clear that some US Navy and Marine pilots continued to carry .45's well after the issue of Victory Model S&W's began. And that Phil Roettenger gun is a major answer to your question of whether Marines ever carried S&W revolvers. Of course, his was a personal gun.

In general, the Marine Corps is pretty straitlaced and formal, compared to the other services. Overall, I suspect that they had less latitude in carrying personal handguns in past wars. But Roettenger and Jeff Cooper showed that it was done.

I was an Air Force cop and my commander carried a K-38 on duty. He thought it shot better than the M-15 issue gun. I think rather a lot of USAF officers provided their own sidearms in the 1960's. Some were even told to bring their own handguns to Vietnam, as some bases were short of them. Don't know if Marines had similar issues.

Sorry to ramble. I hope this interests someone.


T-Star

POSTWAR US CALIBER .38 REVOLVERS --shows a Marine Lance Corporal MP qualifying with a Model 10 in 1979.

I was a USMC MP (5811) from '86 - '90. While I personally carried a Colt 1911A1 45 Auto (with 3 mags issued, each loaded with 5 rounds of ball ammo - one mag in the pistol and the other two in the pouch), I had friends who were Marine K-9 MPs who carried S&W Model 10s with a 4 inch standard barrel. I was always kind of envious of those guys because their weapons never jammed! Ballistics aside, I would have easily traded in my 45 for a M10. I'm sure those Colt 45 Autos were great in their day, but by the time we got them, the parts were mixed and matched to no end, and every range session saw numerous alibis by a significant percentage of the shooters. Unfortunately, I had no choice in the matter.

The guys in CID generally carried Colt Detective Specials. Although, I also saw 2 inch barreled S&W Model 10s in the PMO (Provost Marshal's Office) Armory. I also remember seeing one of the NIS (now NCIS) Agent's carry a S&W Model 60 on his hip.

Semper Fi!


P.S. -- To all you Devil Dogs out there, Happy (premature) Birthday!

More likely a WWII Victory Model.

I was a Marine Security Guard (Emabssy Duty) from 1993-95. We carried special S&W 19-4s that were supplied to the Marines from the Department of State.

They were 4-inch, brushed or matte blue and Round Butt with plain front/rear sights. There would be the occasional 2-1/2 inch 19-4 for the plain clothes MSG on duty or for the Detachment Commander or Corporal of the Guard. This practice was post-specific.

In Beijing (1993-94) we had three posts (Embassy/Consualte and rover). When we were the rover, we carried concealed, wearing a suit or coat/tie. We had a horribly used Don Hume Double Agent holster. I couldn't handle this, so I purchased a Kramer MSP Paddle holster and double-thickness horsehide belt in my favorite Cordovan color. I also carried Safariland COMP II on the belt and COMP III speedloaders in each coat pocket.

Our duty/qualification ammunition was the .38 Special Federal 125gr NYCLAD Hollow Point +P (about 950 fps and since discontinued). Good, accurate ammunition. The Serial Number ranges were in the AYY#### range.

From what I understand from current or prior MSGs that stood post in the last few years, many of these revolvers are still in the Regional Security Officer (RSO) inventories at our missions overseas.

The Marines now use State Department-issued M9 Berettas with 124gr Hydra-Shok ammunition. I never felt under-armed with my Model 19...