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  #1  
Old 11-17-2010, 07:53 AM
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Default Airport security, it is not right

This is not right. An American, elderly, infant or anyone in between is subject to body scan, pat down or such but a Muslim is now expempt by the orders of the Feds.

Judicial Watch | Fighting corruption & promoting transparency in government through public education and use of the Freedom of Information Act.

Now I know I will never fly commercial again. I have 7,000 hrs as PIC and can certainly add more easily and I can take my guns on board without the security hassles.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:18 AM
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Road trips are starting to look very attractive again....Janet N certainly needs to see her Proctologist to see if her cranium can be located....
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:51 AM
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Road trips are starting to look very attractive again....Janet N certainly needs to see her Proctologist to see if her cranium can be located....
Thank God, I was beginning to think I was the only one that felt as I do.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:52 AM
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The whole TSA is a joke.

We just left Florida for MN. When leaving here we pretty much just "waltzed" through security.

When leaving Mpls/St Paul I went through OK my wife had to go through the "Transporter" I think it was every other one or something. The lines were outrageous. Many, many TSA employees just standing around doing nothing.

They basically make you strip, belt shoes etc but no where to sit to put your shoes back on?

But think about the recent cargo, toner cartridge scare. Hardly any cargo is actually scanned and there is tons and tons of it flown every second of every day. Lots are put on passenger planes as well.

It's almost like being out on the boat, you have no rights and can be stopped, searched without cause. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard and searched without any warrant and not in international waters. The CG can tear your boat apart looking for drugs, illegals whatever and you have no recourse for the damage done, nor can you sue or file a insurance claim.
Police and Marine Patrol can stop you anywhere, anytime for "safety checks".
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:53 AM
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Napalitano(sp) seems to be in WAY over her head.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:20 AM
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I haven't flown since 9/11.TSA can keep their tests.I'm a driver,anyway.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by OCD1 View Post
The whole TSA is a joke.

It's almost like being out on the boat, you have no rights and can be stopped, searched without cause. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard and searched without any warrant and not in international waters. The CG can tear your boat apart looking for drugs, illegals whatever and you have no recourse for the damage done, nor can you sue or file a insurance claim.
Police and Marine Patrol can stop you anywhere, anytime for "safety checks".
After 35 years of boating out of San Diego I know exactly what you are saying. Since I could not beat them I joined them (so to speak). Began volunteering my boat as security patrol for special events in and around San Diego. The Christmas Parade of Lights (two nights every year), Tall ship parade,., Fleet Week, 4th of July and Superbowl fireworks etc..

These events cannot go off without a couple dozen volunteer patrol vessels and I was at every event. We would patrol, decked out in our flashing amber lights and large Committee/ Patrol Banners, up and down the bay keeping the enormous spectator fleet clear of the parade routes. The Coast Guard Auxillary participated as well as the Harbor police and USCG always ran the show. Now this always put us in the front row and I took a couple dozen of our friends on every event. As a happy consequence our boat was very well known to the coasties and cops. On more than one occasion I was intercepted by the CG looking to do a "Routine Boarding" (Yeah, right), only to be waived off when they recognized me or the boat.

To the best of my knowledge if you vessel is damaged during a boarding you can file a claim, assuming they didn't find anything illegal. I have no problem with legitimate safety inspections as there way too many folks out on the water without the proper safety gear but over the years these inspections have been abused beyond belief. The Constitution should not be tossed overboard every time you leave the dock/ramp.

Here is a shot of "Ottersea", she is an Ed Monk 36 (40' overall), 25,000 lbs displacement powered by a single marinized Ford Lehman 120HP naturally aspirated diesel. Eight knots at 2 GPH. I sure do miss her sometimes. (o;

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Old 11-17-2010, 11:24 AM
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Nice boat.

About ten years ago, a friend and I dropped his mast across a similar vessel!

My friend had developed a new and (he thought) easier way to hoist his mast onto the pulpit(?), using a fixture he made which cammed the mast up and into place. Mechanically, it worked like charm... too bad it put too much stress on the deck, the weight of the mast pulling the bolts through the deck! It collapsed right across the boat next to his. Fortunately, neither of us were killed and the only damage to the other boat was a small dent in the railing. The other owner didn't even claim any damages.

I stick with guns and computers...
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:35 AM
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I havent flown in years but sometimes we need to. Funnerals 2,000 miles away etc. When I read stuff like this it makes my blood boil. This **** is all a result of political correctness. Isreal profiles, and has the best system going and yet is the most targeted. It`s a sorry day that we have come to when people like napolitono favors the very people that should be targeted over nuns etc.
As americans we have become sheep overall to allow this ****. We have been brainwashed into PC since the end of world war two. It`s long past time to get out the tar barrels and feathers.
For the most part our goverment strains themselves for every off beat heathen over our own citizens. There is a indescribable evil "spirit" of interpitation of law by some appointed officals that at the same time see themselves above the law.
This is not done out of ignorance. It is done by people placed in power that are ungodly and therefore are controlled by satin himself! Every decision and move is planned to tear down every godley principal that founded this country and made it great.
I would like to say a ton more, but I am pushing the envelope even here!
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:11 PM
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I like the CG Aux guys. They are all out there to help folks and are very nice and all volunteers.

Sorry this is off topic and do not mean to hijack.

I used to do alot of flats fishing for Reds and Spotted Sea Trout. We would be off up in the mangroves in 3-6 feet of water with not one around at daybreak. Here we see some twin engine boat hauling arse across the flats straight at us.

Jeeze look at this idiot. Turns out it was Marnine Patrol. Wanted to see if we had our safety gear and then check our cooler. All is well, have a nice day and off he goes.

No more fishing in that area for the rest of the day!

Heck now we have to no wake everywhere to save the Manatees (which I love) but boats are not killing them. Development is. The Florida Panther is far more endangered but do they slow traffic on I 75 where the few left are killed??

Sorry, now back to our regular program.

1984 is here, just a little late for the technology to catch up.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:03 PM
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To my surprise I noticed that the UK is actually doing away with a bunch of security type measures like an ID card scheme and many surveillance cameras. Perhaps the "price of freedom" is getting too high even over there.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralmerril View Post
This **** is all a result of political correctness. Isreal profiles, and has the best system going and yet is the most targeted.
100%+1 and I agree.If you don't like it walk or swim.

Now on the lighter side........

YouTube - Fark TV - TSA Training Video - Hug A Jew

Someone else posted that one before.Where do you find them?
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Last edited by DeathGrip; 11-17-2010 at 04:59 PM.
  #13  
Old 11-17-2010, 06:51 PM
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I've already told my wife, next time I fly I'm going to unroll an entire roll of toilet paper and stuff it down back of my shorts. Leave a tail hanging out back. Too bad I won't be able to see the face of the poor soul having to reach in every time it breaks off to find the end. Joe
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralmerril View Post
Israel profiles, and has the best system going and yet is the most targeted.
Well, Merril's right about this, IMHO. The Israelis, not having the same tech addiction we do, and many fewer people and a lot less money, have put the emphasis where it needs to be: targeted screenings, armed pilots, and a a definition of due process that includes two to the chest and one to the head. We, on the other hand, throw a ton of money and technology at the problem, invent a whole new bureaucracy to deal with it, and still can't seem to get it quite right.

I give the TSA people hell every time they overstep -- such as confiscating a jar of homemade hot chili sauce from China because, according to them, "it's a liquid, a gel, or an aerosol," which it plainly was not. When I corrected the officer noting that technically, a jar of homemade hot chili sauce is actually a colloidal suspension, I was threatened with arrest. It seems that it is now a Federal crime to attempt to educate TSA officers about physical chemistry.

It's all about getting people used to following orders, rational or not. "Just shut up and do what we tell you" doesn't cut it with me.

I urge everyone to write their Senators and Representative every time you feel violated by these Stoßtruppen-wannabees. When the heat gets hot enough, there will be changes.

The amazing thing to me is this: I travel often to China. They have great airport security there, as one might expect of a Communist dictatorship. But, they manage to do it efficiently and politely. Every time. They are deferent. They worry about giving offense. They are solicitous. And they would never be so mind-numbingly stupid as to confiscate a jar of homemade hot chili sauce because "it's a liquid, a gel, or an aerosol."


Bullseye, who, as a result of this post, is expecting a full body cavity search on the occasion of his next flight overseas.


P.S.: My hat is off to the passenger who recently told a TSA Stoßtrupper, "touch my junk and I'll have you arrested."

P.P.S.: Thanks for the video, DG.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:49 PM
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It is outrageous that you could and should be arrested for a felony if you were to do this to a woman that you do not know yet it is not a violation of your rights.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:15 PM
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If you have ever had the misfortune to be an a hijacked plane, my family and I have, you probably wouldn't mind the idea of passengers being screened or subjected to pat downs before boarding at all. I know I don't, and I sure don't think anyone (much less muslims) should be exempt regardless of their beliefs or customs. Don't like it, don't fly!
Steve
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens View Post
If you have ever had the misfortune to be an a hijacked plane, my family and I have, you probably wouldn't mind the idea of passengers being screened or subjected to pat downs before boarding at all. I know I don't, and I sure don't think anyone (much less muslims) should be exempt regardless of their beliefs or customs. Don't like it, don't fly!
Steve
Oh, I got that message loud and clear! I will NOT willingly fly on a commercial airline. The combo of terrorists, lousy maintenance, drunk pilots, aircraft wear/fatigue, and obtrusive security keep me away from air travel.

Now, tell us about the hijackers. Were they of an ethnicity that should have gotten them "profiled"? Where were their weapons (which ones?) carried, or were they cached aboard by corrupt airline workers? Glad that you and your family survived, BTW. You have a unique perspective on the matter.

Was your aircraft hijacked here or in some other country? What was the security procedure? Where do you feel that it failed? How were you rescued?

Thanks,

T-Star
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:43 PM
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All of T-Star's questions and more.You can't leave us hanging on a story from that perspective.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:56 PM
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Lets carry this a little farther. Unless the brakes is put on and we get to profileing, I can easily see this carried to the same screening for rideing a train or bus!
I worked as a lockheed guard for 35 years. A lot of my job was close to what they are asking these screeners to do at various times. The differance was when someone hired in they were well briefed on what was going to be done as a condition of employment. Certain programs had a lot higher inspection than other programs. For instance the F-117 as opposed to the civilian L 10-11. Certain type personality guards were in more hot water than us older laid back ones. It was mostly a guards demeaner in how he did the job. Some did a good job of peeing off every employee that walked through the gate, and others of us "ran" things smoother doing the same job. One guy I worked with had a talent in sniffing out vehicles with guns in them. I would estimate he probley found over a dozzen or so, and most if not all of them lost their lively hood! I found stuff too. Usualy, the office never heard about it and the people were well straightend out and kept their jobs.
To get rid of stupid regulations as a guard, IT IS TO ENFORCE THEM! Our supperiors once in awhile would come out with stuff that I knew wouldnt work. I might tell them so after reading it. If they didnt see it my way, I might do a bang up good job in enforceing the rule by being sure a higharchy in the company got shook down good. Well! Let me see that order! Yes sir!
This foolishness is already national news. If in one day five seperate screeners got punched in the nose by irate husbands I guarantee you other rules and proceedures more sensable would be in effect in days.
It wont happen though, not when our leaders are more concerned about the hurt feelings of moslem women than nuns that are citizens getting grouped! The only way things will really get turned around is if a half dozzen of key people in this country are ran out on a rail and tar and feathered!
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:08 PM
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Anyone else read what Penn Jillette had to say after his "screening" experience?
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
It is outrageous that you could and should be arrested for a felony if you were to do this to a woman that you do not know yet it is not a violation of your rights.
Before this thread gets locked, I would just like to say that I would like to work for the TSA, as a patter downer in the ladies pat down booth, not the men's. Unless the one paid more than the other, then I guess, well maybe, naaahhh
I am just glad that I don't see any flying for the rest of my life.Hopefully anyways. I always hated it. I felt like I was too high in the air, long ways to fall.
Peace,
gordon
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:21 PM
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I hate to break it to you, but I can guarantee that for any foreign travel, especially transatlantic, you can expect more thorough searches than previously. The basic issue is that the European airlines and passengers have lost patience with the demands of the US government on passenger screening. Their sense of humour really failed when they discovered that much of it did not apply to flights out of the US or internally. Can you blame Fred, Francois, Guido and Gerhard for getting upset about this? After all, which nation suffered a major terrorist attack due to poor security for internal flights in 2001.

This story has been quietly buried on both sides of the pond to prevent an all out major pissing contest resulting in the cessation of transatlantic flights. Basically, if the US wants incoming passengers subjected to invasive screening, they must do the same for those leaving the US. Oh, and if anybody here thinks the TSA are thorough, you have not traveled through a London airport in the last year. Suck it up or stay home. Oh, and I believe the deal in the UK is that if selected for scanning, go through the scanners or take the boat because there is no pat down option.

As for Janet Italian Ice Cream (or whatever her name is) giving the Muslim women a free pass, I cannot see that lasting much past the opening of the next Congress, if that long. The rumour mill also coughed up that the new body scanners were paid for out of stimulus funds. Any truth in that?
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:45 PM
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by T-Star

Now, tell us about the hijackers. Were they of an ethnicity that should have gotten them "profiled"? Where were their weapons (which ones?) carried, or were they cached aboard by corrupt airline workers? Glad that you and your family survived, BTW. You have a unique perspective on the matter.

Was your aircraft hijacked here or in some other country? What was the security procedure? Where do you feel that it failed? How were you rescued?

The 2 hijackers were young Lebanese men, well dressed in sport jackets. slacks, and nice shirts. They had a semi auto and a hand grenade. Don't know how they got them on board, carried or planted earlier? They got into the flight cabin shortly after takeoff from Athens, (security was lax that was in 1985) to Rome. The 727 was still climbing and the passengers and crew strapped in their seats. Navy diver Robert Stehem was shot to death by the hijackers.

It was TWA flight 847 June 1985 if you google it you can see the details, 3 days on the plane, the 14 days held in Beirut.
Steve W
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:17 AM
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Well I understand all that Steve, and I'm sorry you had to go through all that badness. But I think you're one of the people that feel that safety & securtiy should be traded for rights, responsibilities & freedoms. Too bad that never works out in the long run.

You like allowing muslim women rights denied my 83 year old mother?

Nevermind.


Cat



Now if TSA had ever, and I mean ever caught or stopped a terrorist . . .
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:41 AM
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I went to France this spring and had less of an inspection than a month ago going from El Paso to Houston. About all I had to do was go through the metal detector at El Paso, Dallas, or Charles DeGaulle either way.

My friend told me those soldiers roaming around CdG carrying the FAMAS weren't issued any ammo. Some of them carry blanks but that's all.

When I returned, I checked my suitcase to El Paso. It never went through customs and I found it waiting for me at El Paso. Wish I'd known that beforehand; my friend had both versions (Nickl and Westinger) of the Mauser Schnellfeuer, and yes, I did get to shoot them.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:16 AM
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Stevens posted
"I sure don't think anyone (much less muslims) should be exempt regardless of their beliefs or customs. Don't like it, don't fly!"
Stevens

CAT asked

"You like allowing muslim women rights denied my 83 year old mother?"

I am puzzled?
I stated no one should be exempt, are you reading that I favor letting muslim women be exempt from a scan that everyone else (including my 86 year old mother) would go through to board a plane???
Stevens
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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FINALLY — A great alternative to body scanners at
airports . . .

The Israelis are developing an airport security
device that eliminates the privacy concerns that
come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It’s a booth you can step into that will not X-ray
you, but will detonate any explosive device you may
have on you. They see this as a win-win for
everyone, with none of this **** about racial
profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a
long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift.
Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a
muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an
announcement comes over the PA system . . .
"Attention standby passengers — we now have a seat
available on flight number 1234. Shalom!"
  #28  
Old 11-18-2010, 12:21 PM
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Ron Paul Says enough is enough!

House Session - C-SPAN Video Library
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:38 PM
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I think it's pathetic that they want to exclude a group from
this mess just because they feel it's "invasive and humiliating".
Got news for them.. It's invasive and humiliating to everyone
subjected to it.
And the TSA wants to file against the "don't touch my junk" guy..
Are you kidding me? How can refusing these searches be a crime
if they never enter the airplane? It's the same as the police
arresting someone for refusing to allow their car to be searched
on a traffic stop. And everyone knows the police can't arrest someone
for refusing a search. They can dog sniff their car, continue the
interview, etc, but they can not arrest them without probable
cause.
But then we get to the specifics of this case, and the lettering of
the law.
The article states..
Actually, the official charge is leaving the airport’s security area without
permission, which is prohibited to prevent terrorism
unquote...
It's quite obvious to me, he did have permission to leave the area.
In fact, the last video taken when he was harassed by the plain
clothed TSA officer plainly illustrates that he asked and made sure
he had permission to leave, and the previous videos plainly show
that he was given the option of going through the machine, being
groped, or leaving. He chose to leave. No one tried to stop him
from leaving.
I suspect if this goes to court, the defense lawyers will eat
them for lunch. I also bet that many are chomping at the bit wishing
they could represent him.
Maybe Caj could offer his two cents worth, not implying that he would
like to take his case..

Me? Unless it's some dire location I can't drive to, I'm not going to
be flying. The last time I flew was in 2000, and what I brought with
me would have given a present day TSA agent heart failure.
I flew to Little Rock to bring a car back to Houston. I took a big carry
on bag with tools, almost certainly knives included, a hand held
two way radio, and loads of other ****. The guy checked it all out,
but barely bat an eye in the overall scheme of things.
These days, if I had brought all that, a SWAT team would be
surrounding me in about 2 minutes. :/
It's starting to get fairly pathetic, and yes, I agree, the Israeli's
have the right idea. They check *people*, not goods. They look into
your eyes, not your crotch area.
If they exclude Muslims from this, I expect a backlash or the people
really have become sheep.
I guess I better quit before my blood pressure gets too high..
  #30  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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The very 1st post that started this thread had this lead or referance.
Judicial Watch | Fighting corruption & promoting transparency in government through public education and use of the Freedom of Information Act.
This is what made my blood boil. That the TSA is even considering exempting muslem women as opposed to our nuns etc. MY GOD! All this is because of muslem countrys! To give in to muslems the very people that all these threats and danger is about!!!! We are worried about THEIR feelings?? Yet run our own citizens in jail because they have the cajones to protest? How stupid is it to make pilots go through the detectors or pat downs? These guys can wipe out the plane in one manuver to start with! Do they think he needs a gun or explosive to do it? This country is run by leftests that are on the wrong side. They need to be run out on a rail! This is all done under the guise of being "Politicaly correct". Even they arent that dumb. I dont like my intelligence insaulted. These are evil people! How many million of our men have died fighting against what these socalists leftests are shoveing down our throats without a shot fired?
Moderators, please let me slip this one through!!
The real truth here is it really, really is a religious thing! Atheists as opposed to Godly people. Unless a Godly person is totaly ignorant and uninformed, there is NO way they could possibly vote democrat!!
  #31  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:12 PM
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Default Counterpoint

Okay, here's the "other side." I don't care to what degree I am searched at an airport. And, if you think the TSA folks get a thrill outta patting down people, you are seriously deluded. Did anyone see the obese female who complains she was groped and assaulted? Oh, please! Doubt she's been touched in any manner in quite some time.

I have been aboard 8 airline flights in the last five weeks. Have been through TSA checkpoints in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Boston, Charlotte, and Key West. Have been through the total view thingee, too. Thank goodness I was wearing u-trou but really doubt the viewer got a thrill. In fact, likely he/she felt better about themself after catching a glimpse of me.

Now I travel because I like to; for many years I had to. No worries then or now. Suspect many of the folks who feel they are somehow "victims" of TSA feel similarly regarding the Wal-Mart folks who ask them for a receipt. (But let's not revisit any of those threads!)

Also suspect that many of those who object to TSA are the ones toting two suitcases for a weekend trip and try to drag them about to stow overhead as if the rules don't apply to them...just to others.

One more thing: Guarantee I have traveled aboard commercial aircraft far more time than 99% of those on this Forum. In all my travels, have never, ever, had a bag lost, and on only two occasions had a bag delayed to the degree I left the airport without it. Nope, no one stole my gear...including a gun that was in just about every one of my checked bags...including those delayed.

Okay, rant off!

Be safe.
  #32  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
Thank God, I was beginning to think I was the only one that felt as I do.
You have LOTS of company and are going to find that out more and more - just stay tuned. The loons in Washington do NOT represent the views of the majority.
  #33  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:42 PM
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Would I get into any trouble if I made some letters out of aluminum foil and pasted them to my body under my clothes to spell out something? Would they have a sense of humor about it?
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  #34  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:53 PM
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The terrorists entire aim is to disrupt this country every way possible. It`s not stopping here. You will see the same proceduers some day boarding a bus and train. Yes there is danger everywhere no matter what we do. You can get killed by a drunk driveing to prayer meeting.
Personaly I refuse to live in fear. Unless this country quits worrying about PC and profileing, we are just about two years from going through the same x ray machine to get on a city bus. (I dont ride them anyway). I wont give the ***`s the satisfaction. My life at this point in time is not so dear to me that I will live it cowaring in fear.
Now, going through the machines isnt going to bother some of us. But you should consider this: Many of our wives dont feel that way! My wife wont fly! If your wifes mother dies or is on her death bed in maine, and you live in southern california, whatcha going to do?
With me, it`s the principal. I am as fat and ugly as any man can get. Three spins on the scale and a disfigured ugly false nose! I will go through the machine if I have to, and just maybe give the screener the finger while I do. But what about our women or other people that dont feel that way? We are giveing the terrorists exactly what they want! How do you feel about that? I say it isnt nessasary to start with! Remember again how isreal handles it, and they are more hated than us by muslems!

Last edited by feralmerril; 11-18-2010 at 02:05 PM. Reason: add info.
  #35  
Old 11-18-2010, 01:55 PM
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All women should wear a Berka and see how that works out when going through Security.
  #36  
Old 11-18-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralmerril View Post
The very 1st post that started this thread had this lead or referance.
Judicial Watch | Fighting corruption & promoting transparency in government through public education and use of the Freedom of Information Act.
This is what made my blood boil. That the TSA is even considering exempting muslem women as opposed to our nuns etc. MY GOD! All this is because of muslem countrys! To give in to muslems the very people that all these threats and danger is about!!!! We are worried about THEIR feelings?? Yet run our own citizens in jail because they have the cajones to protest? How stupid is it to make pilots go through the detectors or pat downs? These guys can wipe out the plane in one manuver to start with! Do they think he needs a gun or explosive to do it? This country is run by leftests that are on the wrong side. They need to be run out on a rail! This is all done under the guise of being "Politicaly correct".
That is what irks me too.. What religion do most of these latest
terrorists belong to? This is not a trick question...
Seems to me, that would be the last group to be excluded, if any.
To be fair, it's either everyone, or no one.
But you also have to consider the medical issues with getting nuked
all the time. Say a pilot.. Lets say he flies 100 runs a year.. If he
chooses to go through the machine, instead of having some hairy
legged dude fondle him, that's 100 doses a year. After a few years of
that, his offspring could end up looking like something out of
Deliverance.
And this could apply to any frequent flier.
I'll agree that the planes need to be safe, but the methods they
are using are getting pretty heavy handed when even old ladies and
small children are considered viable threats, when the usual threat
these days is from younger middle eastern men.
But if they are going to use these tactics, to even consider excluding
a group of people, not to mention that it's the same group which happens
to be the predominant group threatening us, is truly pathetic.
It boggles the mind..
It's either everyone or no one, the way I see it.
Like I said, I just won't fly, unless it's the only way to go.
That's my way of dealing with the issue.
  #37  
Old 11-18-2010, 02:47 PM
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Smile It stunted me!

MK, good point! Years ago I met my old doctors son. He claimed those old floor scope machines in shoe stores like buster browns, steralised him! When I was a kid around 1947 I was playing with my mothers old wringer washing machine. It would chatter like a machine gun if ya did it right. I was mowing down krauts and my hand got grabbed by the wringer! It took my arm all the way to the elbow and either broke or mom stopped the machine at the same time! It did leave me with a disfiguered wrist to this day. My folks were poor in those days and had no medical insurance. They took me to a shoe store that had one of those machines, had me lay on the floor and put my arm in and check for broken bones. It didnt leave me sterile, but I do belive it stunted me!
  #38  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:36 PM
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The TSA seems to respond to the terrorist threat differently as new threats are discovered or encountered. Few years back explosives or inflammables disguised as "liquids or aerosols" started the whole ban of most liquids.

The Terrorists HAVE used explosives hidden in their anal cavity in the past. Wasn't some Saudi Official targeted a year or so ago? The pics of the Terrorist blown all over the Office area were on the net.

I'd bet the scanners are the reply to THAT threat.

FN in MT
  #39  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:54 PM
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No X-ray exposure is absolutely safe. X-ray exposure damage is cumulative. X-ray viewing should never be used unless it is needed for medical diagnostics and disease treatment.

Those most at risk are females who hope to have children at some point in their lives.

When a female is born, she is already carrying all the eggs she will ever have, they are not produced as needed.

Repeated exposure of this reproductive material to x-rays can damage the DNA in the eggs.

X-ray exposure can also trigger cancer development in people with previous cancer incidents. Skin cancer and breast cancer are two of the most common conditions that can be affected.

The cornea is also very susceptible to damage from the radiation from these quick scan machines.


AS a former commercial pilot and airline employee, I will miss flying, but will not step foot on an airliner till this Brave New World is returned to some semblance of sanity.
  #40  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:47 PM
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Unless my destination is over 2,000 miles away, folks, I'm driving.

Reasons?

1. I won't be subjected to degrading x-rays and unwanted accumulative radiation. Heck, I won't even let my dentist take x-rays after his first shot, which was 10 years ago. Also, the word on the street is that those x-rays are not immediately deleted, but kept for laffs by the TSA. According to those who know, whether or not a male has been circumcised is easily discernible; ditto with females regarding breast implants, etc. Whatever happened to privacy?

2. I won't be groped, either. That privilege should be reserved for spouses, significant others and/or massage therapists.

3. When I drive, I get to take whatever I want with me in the car, including firearms. I don't like willingly abandoning my means of self protection.

4. This business of exempting muslim women from security screening is a bunch of you know what. Scream about profiling if you must, but terrorist acts so far have been pretty much limited to being committed by radical muslims. Those are the folks we should be looking at more closely, not less. I certainly don't want to get on an airplane with those who have been exempted from at least minimal scrutiny.

My car is in good shape, has been serviced properly, and will do just fine, thank you, for my transportation within 2,000 miles.

I think hijackings would completely stop if they would abandon this politically correct bull and allow those with concealed carry licenses to board freely and carry discretely. Then "Let's roll" would be a much more more terrifying pronouncement when heard by terrorists who choose to mess with armed Americans in the air, on land or sea.

John
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  #41  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralmerril View Post
The terrorists entire aim is to disrupt this country every way possible. It`s not stopping here. You will see the same proceduers some day boarding a bus and train. Yes there is danger everywhere no matter what we do. You can get killed by a drunk driveing to prayer meeting.
Personaly I refuse to live in fear. Unless this country quits worrying about PC and profileing, we are just about two years from going through the same x ray machine to get on a city bus. (I dont ride them anyway). I wont give the ***`s the satisfaction. My life at this point in time is not so dear to me that I will live it cowaring in fear.
Now, going through the machines isnt going to bother some of us. But you should consider this: Many of our wives dont feel that way! My wife wont fly! If your wifes mother dies or is on her death bed in maine, and you live in southern california, whatcha going to do?
With me, it`s the principal. I am as fat and ugly as any man can get. Three spins on the scale and a disfigured ugly false nose! I will go through the machine if I have to, and just maybe give the screener the finger while I do. But what about our women or other people that dont feel that way? We are giveing the terrorists exactly what they want! How do you feel about that? I say it isnt nessasary to start with! Remember again how isreal handles it, and they are more hated than us by muslems!
I agree totally. A friend of my sister's is a TSA supervisor. Her attitude is that most of these TSA 'agents' are mindful of people picked up @ Wal-Mart parking lots where they went to look for work. It has been stated that many are of questionable character to say the least. (Background checks?)

In my tenure with Treasury I dealt with US Customs quite often. US Customs has or had the broadest search authority you could imagine under (IIRC) Section 305 of the Tariff Act. It was statutory. Even Justice (Border patrol and Immigration included) had no such authority.

These Inspectors were trained and retrained and constantly reminded of their search and seizure authority and its ramifications.


Granted, some travelers had issues with US Customs. These were extremely rare. But the better Customs inspectors, esp on a border with as prolific and consistently intense an amount of land-sea-pedestrian (truck train boat ship domestic- vehicle) traffic - as, say Detroit, MI, were much less prone to humiliate anyone in a manner anywhere near these TSA buffoons. And they did their jobs in ways and results far beyond what the general public had access to knowing about.

In my own experience with TSA 'agents' (give me a break!), they are poorly (if at all) trained, unsure of themselves, and in sum, generally lacking in anything more than base intelligence.

Anone willing to sacrifice a 'little' freedom to keep a modicum of it deserves to eventually lose all of it. This whole TSA thing is just so much BS. (Of course it proves our 'prez's' promise to 'create' jobs' and Michael Chertoff and Dr. Deepak (?) Chopra are making tons of money from it.

It seems that so many Americans are so used to being humiliated that they themselves are making excuses for those who humiliate them.
  #42  
Old 11-18-2010, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post


Also suspect that many of those who object to TSA are the ones toting two suitcases for a weekend trip and try to drag them about to stow overhead as if the rules don't apply to them...just to others.
The Big D makes a good point here. The government is continually hearing whining that they must do "everything" to "guarantee" security and safety. Guess what, the government have started doing just this and now nobody likes it.

"Checks by TSA are for other people, not me."

"I could never be randomly selected for a scan, it must be profiling or victimisation"

"Lines caused by thorough checks should never delay me."

What is that old saying: "Be careful what you wish for".
  #43  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens View Post
The 2 hijackers were young Lebanese men, well dressed in sport jackets. slacks, and nice shirts. They had a semi auto and a hand grenade. Don't know how they got them on board, carried or planted earlier? They got into the flight cabin shortly after takeoff from Athens, (security was lax that was in 1985) to Rome. The 727 was still climbing and the passengers and crew strapped in their seats. Navy diver Robert Stehem was shot to death by the hijackers.

It was TWA flight 847 June 1985 if you google it you can see the details, 3 days on the plane, the 14 days held in Beirut.
Steve W
Steve, I am glad that you and your family survived the ordeal. I recall it well from the news reports at the time. I grieve for Navy diver Robert Stehem.

God damn the terrorists who hijacked the plane and murdered him.
  #44  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:35 PM
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Also suspect that many of those who object to TSA are the ones toting two suitcases for a weekend trip and try to drag them about to stow overhead as if the rules don't apply to them...just to others.

hard to carry 1 suitcase in one's crotch (or bra) let alone 2.
  #45  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:36 PM
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I love to fly & have many times. But now a days "If I can't drive there I'm not going".
  #46  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:50 PM
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Have these people doing all this driving learned they can buy a nice used airplane that seats four for about the price of a middle class new car. Travel at 120-130mph, burn 6-7 gallons of gas per hour and can go about 600 miles on a tank of gas.

It takes me a little over three hours to travel from north Louisiana to Talladega, AL where as it takes me 11 hours to drive it. Plus I can carry all the guns I want.
  #47  
Old 11-18-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
Have these people doing all this driving learned they can buy a nice used airplane that seats four for about the price of a middle class new car. Travel at 120-130mph, burn 6-7 gallons of gas per hour and can go about 600 miles on a tank of gas.

It takes me a little over three hours to travel from north Louisiana to Talladega, AL where as it takes me 11 hours to drive it. Plus I can carry all the guns I want.
Sounds like a Cherokee 180, do you rent it out?
  #48  
Old 11-18-2010, 10:35 PM
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Email Congress! - Premade Letter
http://www.votervoice.net/Groups/JBS...3096&SiteID=-1


Fight Back Against Airport Scanners and Gropers


John Birch Society
18 November 2010


Enough is enough! Support Ron Paul's "American Traveller Dignity Act of 2010" (H.R. 6416) to begin turning the tables on the TSA's highhanded and unconstitutional bodily inspection procedures.

See below for a 5-minute video of Ron Paul's "Enough is enough!" speech in the House on November 17, during which he explains his bill and the need for the TSA to stop treating Americans like cattle.


YouTube - Ron Paul: Enough Is Enough!
YouTube - Enough Is Enough!


Read "Ron Paul on TSA Abuse: 'Enough Is Enough'" at TheNewAmerican.com for further information.

Here's the full-text of Ron Paul's H.R. 6416:
To ensure that certain Federal employees cannot hide behind immunity.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the 'American Traveller Dignity Act of 2010'.

SEC. 2. NO IMMUNITY FOR CERTAIN AIRPORT SCREENING METHODS.

No law of the United States shall be construed to confer any immunity for a Federal employee or agency or any individual or entity that receives Federal funds, who subjects an individual to any physical contact (including contact with any clothing the individual is wearing), x-rays, or millimeter waves, or aids in the creation of or views a representation of any part of a individual's body covered by clothing as a condition for such individual to be in an airport or to fly in an aircraft. The preceding sentence shall apply even if the individual or the individual's parent, guardian, or any other individual gives consent.
This bill should help restore the constitutional rights of Americans to be protected from the invasions of privacy that have become routine in our airport inspections.

Enough is enough! Let's stop allowing ourselves to be treated like cattle!

If you support H.R. 6416, click here and let your representative and senators know immediately!


SOURCE:
http://www.jbs.org/component/content...rs-and-gropers
  #49  
Old 11-18-2010, 10:54 PM
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Now that just confirms Ron Paul is even more of an idiot than previously suspected. And who elected this whacko?

Be safe.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbandit View Post
Email Congress! - Premade Letter
http://www.votervoice.net/Groups/JBS...3096&SiteID=-1


Fight Back Against Airport Scanners and Gropers


John Birch Society
18 November 2010


Enough is enough! Support Ron Paul's "American Traveller Dignity Act of 2010" (H.R. 6416) to begin turning the tables on the TSA's highhanded and unconstitutional bodily inspection procedures.

See below for a 5-minute video of Ron Paul's "Enough is enough!" speech in the House on November 17, during which he explains his bill and the need for the TSA to stop treating Americans like cattle.


YouTube - Ron Paul: Enough Is Enough!
YouTube - Enough Is Enough!


Read "Ron Paul on TSA Abuse: 'Enough Is Enough'" at TheNewAmerican.com for further information.

Here's the full-text of Ron Paul's H.R. 6416:
To ensure that certain Federal employees cannot hide behind immunity.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the 'American Traveller Dignity Act of 2010'.

SEC. 2. NO IMMUNITY FOR CERTAIN AIRPORT SCREENING METHODS.

No law of the United States shall be construed to confer any immunity for a Federal employee or agency or any individual or entity that receives Federal funds, who subjects an individual to any physical contact (including contact with any clothing the individual is wearing), x-rays, or millimeter waves, or aids in the creation of or views a representation of any part of a individual's body covered by clothing as a condition for such individual to be in an airport or to fly in an aircraft. The preceding sentence shall apply even if the individual or the individual's parent, guardian, or any other individual gives consent.
This bill should help restore the constitutional rights of Americans to be protected from the invasions of privacy that have become routine in our airport inspections.

Enough is enough! Let's stop allowing ourselves to be treated like cattle!

If you support H.R. 6416, click here and let your representative and senators know immediately!


SOURCE:
http://www.jbs.org/component/content...rs-and-gropers
  #50  
Old 11-18-2010, 11:05 PM
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Enough is enough! Let's stop allowing ourselves to be treated like cattle!

Ron Paul is really "weird."

So weird that he is one of the few politicians that is comfortable with quoting (and understanding) the Constitution even while it is being shredded and the confetti thrown in our faces.

YouTube - The TSA is out of control

(Listen to who claims to be 'in charge!')
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