Two sisters doing life sentences. One needs a kidney transplant or she might die in prison serving a "LIFE" sentence. The other sister doing a LIFE sentence is a match to be a donor. So a judge pardons both of them under the that the sister with the good kidney will donate one to her sister so she won't die in prison doing LIFE.

If I heard it right, both sisters left Mississippi yesterday to go to Pensacola to begin the transplant process. If they didn't have insurance in prison in Mississippi, wonder who is now going to pay for this procedure? What does a live donor transplant go for now days anyway?

SC

If they're going to Pensacola, it looks like Mississippi ain't gonna be paying for it and that's all that counts and what drove the decision. Pure and simple. Read the fine print-this "life" sentence called for her parole release in about 2-3 years anyway and given the financial problems she would have been kicked out anyway. It's done all the time-the sherriff gets an inmate with medical problems and he has to treat them on his niclke-he gets them out of his jail-it's on somebody elses nickle.
Law and order and lock them up and throw away the key is fine and admirable-but somebody has to pay for it. Louisiana passed a lot of tough sentencing laws in the past in knee jerk responses to horrible crimes and now everyone is seeing just how expensive it is to house all the inmates. Nobody wants to appear to be soft on crime so the legispature doesn't have the stomach to reform the laws so what happens is that the Department of Corrections gets the legislature to pass all the "good time" rules in order to allieve the critical overcrowding. We went from 50% good time on non-violent crimes to 45% and from 85% on violent crimes to 65% for 2011. In Louisiana the largest disasters on the horizon are the escalating prison costs and the underfunded defined benefit pension plans for all the state employees. Cut pensions or release people from jail earlier -talk about a Hobson's choice

I await hearing the soloutions

__________________
Forum consigliere

Ok, Solution. Just legalize everything. Those enjoying drugs wants that legalized so they will not get in trouble as users and look at all the people that would free up.

Then legalize armed robbery. Most of the losses are covered by insurance so there is no named victim. Free those people as well and release the poor souls now in jail.

We can legalize homicides. Many of the vicitms needed killing anyway.

All of the above is in jest but that is the way people look at it. Each day I have no less than two people tell me drugs should be legalized. About once a week I hear how some son, brother, uncle or cousin only stole money that was covered by insurance and they did not hurt anyone so they should not be in jail.

Yes, I have a problem with the legal system. Many years ago I had to make several trips to Angola to question a man that shot a police officer. The officer lived, the shooting had mitigating factors involved. The shooter got 50 yrs without pardon or parole. He is still there.

Another shooting I was working at the same time was where a man fatally shot a man for no known reason. Never did learn or get any reason for it at all. The man got 12 yrs and did five.

The sentences does not make sense.

XXXXXXXXXXX

Not sure what the "mandatory time" is now in Florida, but about 12-15 years ago it almost doubled intead of getting less. Make it less "user friendly" to come stay and maybe less will come stay for free. Inmates already get better health care than most veterans get.

The most violent criminals on the outside feed on the less violent ones on the inside. WCI in NW FL houses about 1200 inmates. Of those 1200, less than 400 actually do someting during the day/night to contribute to their own welfare. Some cook, some do laundry, some cut a little bit of grass. ALL sleep on clean sheets, clean mattresses, warm blankets in clean dorms. ALL have hot and cold running water and "flush toilets" and all the free toilet paper they want to purposefully stop up the toilets to purposefully flood the floors. They all get free TV, toys to play with on the REC Yard. Free clothes to cut up and make designer clothes out of. Free tennis shoes and boots to drag the heels out of because they are too sorry and lazy to pick their feet up. They have so many ADA laws and watchdogs looking out for their welfare.........

A life sentence to a 25 year old (rough guess) at the time should not be paroled at 18-19 years. I don't care how good you've been for 16 years. I just saw on Fox and Friends...they weren't "scheduled" for parole in 2014. They were scheduled for their first parole "hearing" in 2014. Sheriffs don't run state prisons in FL. Sheriffs run county jails where inmates stay for 11-29 or less. Gurantee it is going to cost somebody's government more to "house" them on the outside than it actually did cost to house them on the inside. They both looked to be 35 or so on TV this morning. Wonder how many children they will have out of wed-lock that will require "assistance" as well.

Now they're celebrities on TV with all of their donated bling bling. They will have a book and movie deal before "Independence Day". Mississippi should immediately give them back their voiting rights and issue them a concealed carry permit too.

If the sister with the good kidneys wants to donate a kidney to her sister out of love........let her do it and go back in to serve her time until she meets her parole criteria. If the sister with the bad kidneys wants to have a chance at getting out alive, let her have the transplant and then go back in until she meets her parole criteria.

If they hadn't been sisters would they have been paroled? Will this now set a precedence that any inmate that wants to get on the "donor list" will get paroled if they are a match for anyone on the inside or outside? Seems like they would get "head of the line" service if they were a match for someone who was actually an asset to society. Should state prisons now set up one of those "cross donor" thingies where 50 different people swap organs to help someone in the "circle"? Just think how much money the penal systems could save by doing this and what a big "feel good" program it would be. I think I'm going to call my congressman first thing Monday morning.

Am I hard hearted? Dang right I am. The soft hearts have given this country away and the burdens of being soft have landed on the backs of those who aren't.

Okay, feel better now.

SC

I'm movin to China where the justice system works...

Florida requires inmates to serve 85% of their sentence. No chance of getting out before that.

A 'life' sentence is life. No parole at all.

I don't necessarily think drugs should be legalized, but I do think a lot of stuff could be decriminalized. For instance, driving with no license used to be an infraction that you got a ticket for. Now it's 6 months in the county jail. Some of that kind of thing doesn't make any sense to me.

Prostitution is another one. Now, the Bible says that any sex outside of marriage is a sin, and I agree with that. But if two people meet somewhere and decide to have sex for free it's a sin, but it's legal. If she charges for it, it's still the same sin biblically, but now it's illegal. Neither one is 'right', but I've never understood why one's legal and the other one's not.

It would help if there were a link to the story. If the crime she/they committed were, say, murder did the victims families appear before this judge?

I saw this on ABC news last night (I know, I know, but I just turned it on and it was there) but I still didn't catch what crime they committed. Like you asked...who paid for this? We all know the answer but we should still ask.

Sorry, but I am not a big believer in rehabilitation except in select circumstances. If you are sentenced to life in prison, you should be there for life in my book. You say we don't have room to house them all, which is why they must be pardoned? Fine, start cutting federally funded social programs until you have the money needed to give to the states to build new prisons. If you don't know which ones to cut I will gladly provide a list.

Oh hell, it's cold this morning and I guess I'm a bit cranky.

XXXXXXXXXXX

My understanding is that it was armed robbery of some sort. Must have been habituals to get life for that. If so, just another reason not to parole them 3 years before they were even eligible for their first hearing.

Doctors need to train, too .....

Don't they do discount kidney transplants in Mexico?

They were participants in an armed robbery. But the people who back the sisters say they shouldn't have received a harsh sentence because they didn't get a lot of money in the robbery.

All three broadcast networks last night had stories on it which appeared to be designed to make the viewer feel forry for the sisters.

Had the mother on there complaining about the Governor(Barbour). Saying they shouldn't have to be on probation, but should have received a pardon.

__________________
Proverbs 14:7

I'm FAR from a bleeding heart, but a life sentence for "assisting" in an armed robbery? They supposedly led the robbers to a group of teenagers,they didn't actually possess any weapons themselves. They've served 16 years already, more than many convicted murders.
What ARE the facts, and the facts only? Did they actually display a weapon? Yes, I know the term "accessory" to a crime, but LIFE for what they were accused of?
Excuse me while I see if I can fit into my turnout gear, it's been awhile. Please be specific and leave out the hysterics.

The sentence was harsh considering the crime. However, from my understanding of the story, they lived where the Jury, not the Judge sets the sentence. Supposedly, the Judge thought the sentence was excessive, but he could not do anything about it.

__________________
Proverbs 14:7

XXXXXXXXX

I didn't write the sentencing guidelines. But 16 to life sure seems like a wide spread. Life does seem like a bit much, but maybe there were other contributing factors. The $11.00 should have nothing to do with it.


As posted above, I believe the "girls" were sentenced by a jury of their peers. Maybe they knew something about the girls histories that we don't.

You said they didn't actually comitt the robbery. "They just led the robbers to a group of teenagers." So by your own words, they instigated the robbery. Maybe the robbers were young teens who were just about to turn their lives around and start being productive citizens. Maybe the 25 year old women were also convicted of contributing to the deliquency of minors. I'm still looking for "priors" and concurrent and consecutive sentences.

I'd really like to see the makeup of that jury. I doubt if it were composed of 12 black women in their early 20's, seriously.
Those words I quoted were from CNN's website, which is why I asked for the FACTS. Go to another source, and you'd probably get another description of what happened.
I have not read of any previous violations of law committed by these two, making the sentence all the more unbelievable, imho. People get robbed all day, everyday, by knifepoint or gunpoint, how many get a life sentence?
If people want to keep them incarcerated for life for this crime, that's fine, but be prepared to fork over 100's of thousands a year for dialysis and other associated costs. Are they really that much of a threat to keep incarcerated. YES, they should have served time, no crime should go unpunished. Seems like almost every week we read about people who have served decades in jail, who didn't commit any crime. In many instances justice IS blind.
One of the victims, themselves, said they have served enough time and had no issue letting them out.
Someday God will judge us all, there's going to be quite a few surprises when He does.

XXXXXXXXXX

So now it's more of a business decision than a legal one?

I'm not trying to argue with you, just asking questions?

Regardless of what you and I think, a precedence was set and many many more will now be able to use it. If Barbour wanted to parole/pardon them he should have done it WITHOUT the requirement of transplant within one year.

SC

I have read that the recidivism rate for those who commit robbery is among the highest at 70%+. So my guess is that the threat and cost is quite real when they are allowed to run amok in society via early release.

As far as costs to keep incarcerated... I think that Sheriff Joe has some good examples on how to keep costs to a minimum and a Vacancy sign always lit.

To me it is more of a legal/moral issue, you need to check on who brougt up the cost issue in the first place.

Phil, I don't see either of them running amok with one functioning kidney. Take a look at them, 2 big overweight women. I doubt if they could walk to the frig without gasping for air.

Agree with you on the transplant issue 100%-as do most if not all medical ethicsists.
But it IS about $$. Are you willing to pay for the incarcerations? If yes-so be it. But it IS a business decision-how much is the citizenry willing to set aside from the public coffers to pay? Simple question-yet nobody had addressed it yet. Are you willing to take a larger share of your state's treasury to pay for the inmates-Yes or no. No right or wrong decision here, just want to know where you want your tax dollars to go.
Soe people say yes more and longer sentences-others say no. It's what makes this democracy thing so utterly fascinating. What I am tryig to say is that the states need to spend their money carefully and lock up the ones who need locking up because they are well and truly a threat to society and find something else to do with the ones that are locked up more because we are pissed at them than because they are a true threat to society.

__________________
Forum consigliere

Thanks... but I'll pass on the offer to look at a couple overweight women.

By the way... once released... who is going to be paying for this operation and forward healthcare costs?

Since pre-exisiting conditions are covered by the new healthcare law, YOU.

The state of Florida is going to pay for them. A state that they were neither charged or convicvted in. But a state where they have now moved to and are applying for govenrment subsidy for the transplant surgeries. No doubt they will get it, free homes, free money and most definitely free cell phones.

The state of Florida, a state that never would have approved of the transplant or the release to begin with. We don't do transplants in FL DOC to save the lives of those doing life.

CAJ, I already do pay more to keep FLORIDA criminals locked up longer in FLORIDA. I live in FLORIDA. The taxes I pay on everything I buy in FLORIDA pays to keep our inmates locked up longer. Not sure where we rate/rank among other states, but I'll bet we're in the top 10 for longevity.

Ladder13, I brought up the cost issue. I suspect the life style, not the prison sentence brought about the need for a kidney.

Either way, Mississippi let them out. Let Mississippi "raise" them. Don't they have a legal/moral obligation? ;-)

If she is in Pensacola than the Florida Medicaid program-but Hailey Barbor doesn't care cause it ain't the Mississippi pool of our money-it's Florida's pool of our money.
Which is one of my pet peeves-"it ain't a free lawyer-it's just that YOU ain't paying for him!". But since I am a benificiary of the public largess-perhaps I should not be shouting as loud as I sometimes do. So buck up and pay those taxes and keep the drugs illegal-at least for two more years until my youngest gets out of LSU

Then I'll meet you all in the cave and we'll get to plotting

__________________
Forum consigliere

If I ever get incarcerated I'm asking to go to Louisiana. Been meaning to visit N'Orleans someday.

Do they have those giant roaches there too?

XXXXXX

just one more thing and I'll shut up and leave it to the "mitigators" to decide.

Legal and moral issue(s) are two distinct and seperate things in my mind.

Okay, had to get that off my chest.

Thanks for the converation.

SC

/ are used as dividers, not uniters, hth. So we agree.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...rSTc7fON23DC4w

Agreed.
Interting thread nonetheless.What about paying tax dollars for a Sobriety Court to try to get people to quit drinking and driving???


2theadvocate.com | Latest News | Grant establishes BR Sobriety Court — Baton Rouge, LA

I LOVE it when the Judicial branch like to extend their tenacles out and take on othe functions that, if they need taking on, should be borne by the executive branch.

My buddy Pogo put it first and most succinctly
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

__________________
Forum consigliere

yeah, I use them the same way. maybe I should use the word "or" as a seperator from now on. :-)

Lee

As far as costs to keep incarcerated... I think that Sheriff Joe has some good examples on how to keep costs to a minimum and a Vacancy sign always lit.[/QUOTE]

If your referring to the Sheriff out west that has the tent city and pink jumpsuits I agree.
I will say,TV's,weights and all of the other perks they get in most prisons make their stay better but if you've ever been to one you'll notice that you cant hear the TV let alone yourself think.Even with all of the perks it still is a hell that I would't want for my life.
My opinion is if you go to prison you have only the rights that are needed for your basic survival.No more,no less.
Added that prisons should pay their own way.That's why most people are locked up,they don't want to pay their own way.Our current system just reinforces their beliefs that WE owe THEM.
Another idea,If we train them a vocation they owe us the price of that training.I know I paid for my schooling and college grads get out of school with some pretty hefty bills and have to pay.Sound fair?

__________________
Dum vivo cano

In the County I live in, inmates are charged $50 a day plus medical expenses.

Not everyone is Bernie Madoff

It's BULL ****

__________________
Scott from Canton Ohio

"Yeah, yeah. I know. But look. We have plenty of Popes up here. But THAT... is our FIRST lawyer!"

[rimshot]

I'll be here all week...

of course the sob story is they ONLY got 11$... and tehir blakc and their women.. boo frickin hoo. they did a real crime, armed robbery. well they held up some poor guy at shotgun point. what if they had gotten a few thousand is that any worse ? they are lucky they picked a guy who wasnt able to shoot back.

i do agree this country needs to seriously revamp its penal system and a lot of "victimless" crimes are prosecuted needlessly and to the expense of the taxpayer, but shotgun armed robbery, even for $11 aint one of them.

If your referring to the Sheriff out west that has the tent city and pink jumpsuits I agree.
I will say,TV's,weights and all of the other perks they get in most prisons make their stay better but if you've ever been to one you'll notice that you cant hear the TV let alone yourself think.Even with all of the perks it still is a hell that I would't want for my life.
My opinion is if you go to prison you have only the rights that are needed for your basic survival.No more,no less.
Added that prisons should pay their own way.That's why most people are locked up,they don't want to pay their own way.Our current system just reinforces their beliefs that WE owe THEM.[/QUOTE]

People in prison eat better than some people who work for a living and try their best to survive and raise a family. I wish I could afford to join a gym and get in better shape, but I have bills to pay instead. I guess I'll just walk around the block on un-shoveled sidewalks and try to keep from falling on the ice and getting a medical bill that would take the money I need to buy food with instead. As for tv, there isn't much on there worth watching anyway. Give them in prison the weather channel and a few religious channels to make them think about changing their lifestyle. No Disney Channel - too many child molesters in there.

As for "life sentence without parole", it needs to be gotten rid of, and a more precise bases established. Why should you be allowed to live when the person you shot did not? Maybe if we brought back capital punishment on a larger scale some of these "lesser criminals" would think first before pulling the trigger or swinging that club, knowing if the victim dies so will they.

Why do people care more for the criminals than they do the victims? It is NOT right!

__________________
Good life will not Heaven get!

For those who are wondering: the cost of a kidney transplant is paid by the Federal Government, rather than an individual state, just as the cost of dialysis is.