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Old 01-20-2011, 09:21 PM
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Default tangent thoughts on the repoman case.

Its hard to look at that one without making a few assumptions based on probability. Such as the home owner probably went out to engage the repoman in the interest of home defense. If the rumors are true about shot placement, the repoman probably overstepped his authority.
This one should have turned the other way around.

Seems a common thing that people just do not think much past possession of a weapon for defense.
Its rather rare that people think of how they might employ such a tool ahead of time, and we really should give that some heavy thought. many responsibilities ride on gun ownership and this is one of them. which brings us up to story time, so pull up a chair and sit on the floor and ill do my best to enchant you (oh who am I kidding).

At the time my sister had just married an avid hunter and my parents had extended permission to him to hunt out on our property. Well it was not quite so simple as that, and I hadn't figured out the new inlaws behavioral patterns quite yet.
He never told us of his seemingly endless supply of hunting buddies. the seemingly random nature of new faces made it hard to keep accurate track of things like who belonged to what vehicle and such.
Well it was the opening day of bow season, of which I dont participate in so seeing an individual in the yard rooting around an unidentified truck posed a security problem from my perspective on that dark 4AM morning. what I did know is that the truck did not fit the description of the in laws and 4AM is as good a time to be up to no good as up to no good times come ... I might know a little about that but I aint talkin.
Yeah I could have easily punched his ticket from the window but I had an absolutely unidentified target. what I mean is we haven't even determined friend or foe yet. So it only seemed right to make an effort to determine which, THEN pump him full of lead.
I was no stranger to sneaking outta the house to be entertained by some members of a fairer sex and the methods of departing in ghost like silence were well established.
So I grabbed my 12 Ga and employed these previously well drilled techniques to go have a little chat with our guest.
After traversing the quietest possible route to the contact I was at an engagement range of 10 feet, and he hadn't heard a sound. My shotgun was shouldered and ready through the advance with the muzzle held low for full visual field. I had him dead to rights when I called out for him to identify himself and step back.
Lighting sucked, but I knew where to send that 00 if it went black....
Well poor Fred's hunting excursion was ruined as he pee'd himself, just a little...
Freds version included such things as "moved like the night" and other legend building things which probably made a better security system than money could buy.
My father woke just in time to witness the last play of the game, and his version isn't half bad either I wish I was still in that good of shape....

The point here is, I took up arms to protect my home. I also resigned to the fact that odds were pretty good that I'd be taking someone life, even before I felt the gun resting in my hands. as a result, I went out with exactly that mindset. it's killin time till I see cause to think differently.
Thats really the only way to to think when meeting threats in your yard. You really cant afford to think your peaceful existence remains at times like these. thats the first thing they take from your property, the peace.
if you really have a live one on your hands, he is probably already prepared to vaporize you face with a caliber ... they've been at this game elsewhere. They live on violence and you can bet they will make NO exception for you. Gun in hand, It's killin time till determined otherwise.
this and this alone might have saved the home owner.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:02 AM
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........
this and this alone might have saved the home owner.
OR - IF the *home owner* had acted honestly and responsibly concerning his contract with the finance company there wouldn't have been a confrontation in the first place.

I am assuming that the repo man went to the right house though
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:20 AM
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OR - IF the *home owner* had acted honestly and responsibly concerning his contract with the finance company there wouldn't have been a confrontation in the first place.

I am assuming that the repo man went to the right house though
Doesn't matter. The bottom line is that if anyone comes on your property, especially in the middle of the night, they have no reason to assume you won't come out armed to defend yourself. A dark figure in the middle of the night on your property represents a real and present threat to your life. If you don't take it seriously and the person is indeed there to enter your house and attack you, then giving up whatever advantage to him you might have is likely deadly.

I cannot imagine a repo man not understanding that sneaking onto somebody's property in the middle of the night invites an armed response. You cannot make an argument that the homeowner lacks a good reason for responding quickly and decisively to an intruder. Obviously the repo guys do understand this as many/most seem to be armed. I belive it is encumbent on them, as the "aggressor" to take all possible steps to descalate this type of event. They should not draw or shoot at a homeowner simply responding properly to an intruder. They created the situation by their own actions, it is their fault an armed homeowner is responding. If they can't figure out how to get the car without causing such an incident, then they shouldn't have their job.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:34 AM
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Just a point from my CCW class, deadly force is not justifiable to protect property. If the night visitor pulled a knife or gun then pulling the trigger would "probably" be justified.

The case of the repro-man will no doubt be settled in a court.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:35 PM
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OR - IF the *home owner* had acted honestly and responsibly concerning his contract with the finance company there wouldn't have been a confrontation in the first place.

I am assuming that the repo man went to the right house though
when its dark and somethings going bump in the night. theirs no reason to assume your visitor is acting on good faith. this time of night factor was implied.
What Im really trying to achieve here is how a responding homeowner, like yourself, should be thinking when you respond.
at 0 dark 30, legitimate activity in your yard is the exception.

most will burst out the door waving their weapon counting on that action to run off the threat.
your wide open and located.
your probably not thinking about actually using your weapon.
so if this tactic fails .. you are going to find out why they call it hot lead.
This is unacceptable ... we like happy endings.

A response should never have any more than half of a second transition time to active fire on your part, Mr Rainsford.... they are, after all, the worlds most dangerous game.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:56 PM
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Years ago I was home on a rare night off watching TV. About midnight the doorbell rang. I was a batchlor seldom home. I opened the door and a black youth about 20 years old looked surprised and asked me where the party was. I thought I was going to have to shovel his eyeballs off the doorstep when I flashed my nickle 2 1/2" python to where he could see it, and told him there was no party here, now git!
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:05 PM
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most will burst out the door waving their weapon counting on that action to run off the threat.
your wide open and located.
Ahhhh -- Well, not I
I don't burst through doors for the very same reason there's no light(s) attached to my pistol (or revolver).
I believe that if it comes to it - The ONLY sound the goblin will hear is maybe the safety coming off - Unless I've picked up a revolver........

The deal one makes with the finance co. is that one will make the payments as promised or give up the property.
I have a few friends that do repo work -- They would much rather you hand them the keys and they drive away than have to *steal* the stupid car from you....

Heck -- A deal's a deal

BTW --- VB - I like the way you think
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:16 PM
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Years ago I was home on a rare night off watching TV. About midnight the doorbell rang. I was a batchlor seldom home. I opened the door and a black youth about 20 years old looked surprised and asked me where the party was. I thought I was going to have to shovel his eyeballs off the doorstep when I flashed my nickle 2 1/2" python to where he could see it, and told him there was no party here, now git!
Sounds a little like last years wrong address incident.
The apartment downstairs was host to many after bar parties.....
Well the wife and I were off to dreamland after some of those activities that make marriage fun when we got a persistent knock on the door.
well I wrapped a towel around myself and palmed the 8 3/8 629 and answered the door.
I got "uhhhhh ... I'm so sorry, I got the wrong place" ... I didnt have to do much more than look at him.
no one got the wrong door since either
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default Tangent thoughts

I know a widow who's husband apparently did
bust out the door waving his gun at a car thief.
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turnerriver
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:27 PM
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Ahhhh -- Well, not I
I don't burst through doors for the very same reason there's no light(s) attached to my pistol (or revolver).
I believe that if it comes to it - The ONLY sound the goblin will hear is maybe the safety coming off - Unless I've picked up a revolver........

The deal one makes with the finance co. is that one will make the payments as promised or give up the property.
I have a few friends that do repo work -- They would much rather you hand them the keys and they drive away than have to *steal* the stupid car from you....

Heck -- A deal's a deal

BTW --- VB - I like the way you think
I understand what you're getting at, but that's a completly separate issue. Whatever happens up to that moment is not relevant when you're woken up by a bump in the night. If the repo man doesn't want to draw an armed encounter, then he should probably try to peacefully contact the owner by all means possible before trying a middle of the night snatching. And then, if he does that, he better try anything possible to avoid shooting the homeowner, like raising his hands over his head and yelling out to identify himself immediately.

I keep a rig nearby equipped with flashlight, gun, knife, etc. If I'm woken up, I agree with the OP, I won't just run out the front door, I'll slip out and challenge the intruder from cover. If he puts his hands in the air and identifies himself, he'll do just fine. If he suddenly grabs for something, he'll likely get shot. My justification is he was on my property after dark univited, I gave him the chance by challenging him, he went for what I thought was a weapon.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:48 PM
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Ahhhh -- Well, not I
I don't burst through doors for the very same reason there's no light(s) attached to my pistol (or revolver).
I believe that if it comes to it - The ONLY sound the goblin will hear is maybe the safety coming off - Unless I've picked up a revolver........

The deal one makes with the finance co. is that one will make the payments as promised or give up the property.
I have a few friends that do repo work -- They would much rather you hand them the keys and they drive away than have to *steal* the stupid car from you....

Heck -- A deal's a deal

BTW --- VB - I like the way you think
why thank you, I do a lot of it even if it rarely shows

the Mt Airy homeowner shooting (read google lead) really reeks of a classic escalation of stupid with all parties doing exactly the worst possible thing at all stages.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:57 PM
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Bitstream,

Your repsonse sounds like an excellent way to incur large attorney fees.
Remember, you would probably have to defend yourself from criminal charges and civil charges. I don't know for sure, but I doubt if the castle doctrine applies to your yard. I would think that if you saw someone in your yard, you would be better off remaining inside your dwelling and calling 911.
I was in the repo business many years ago, so I do have some knowledge of that business. The repo is not a surprise to the customer. The finance company tries to contact the customer to resolve the matter before they have to repo the car. Ford Motor Credit would send a series of letters to the customer advising of the repo. Also, who knows better than the customer that payments are past due. The finance company never wants to repo a vehicle. They are in the finance business, not retail auto business. I never repoed any vehicle that was worth what was owed on it. Dean
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:15 PM
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Bitstream,

Your repsonse sounds like an excellent way to incur large attorney fees.
Remember, you would probably have to defend yourself from criminal charges and civil charges. I don't know for sure, but I doubt if the castle doctrine applies to your yard. I would think that if you saw someone in your yard, you would be better off remaining inside your dwelling and calling 911.
I was in the repo business many years ago, so I do have some knowledge of that business. The repo is not a surprise to the customer. The finance company tries to contact the customer to resolve the matter before they have to repo the car. Ford Motor Credit would send a series of letters to the customer advising of the repo. Also, who knows better than the customer that payments are past due. The finance company never wants to repo a vehicle. They are in the finance business, not retail auto business. I never repoed any vehicle that was worth what was owed on it. Dean
911?!?!
Im not sure what your situation is like. Hopefully better than my experience with it.
no call to emergency services has ever resulted in a response time under 35 minutes. FD was quicker than the Sheriff hands down.
in those cases of my old neighborhood, the longer wait for law enforcement was never worth the trouble. Ive yet to hear of any situation being resolved by a 911 call in that area. Paused and postponed do not count as resolution.
If that looks like the hand your dealt, you have to embrace the fact that your on your own and God willing, in case of fire or other non law enforcement issues out there, ya have a strong core of neighbors willing to bring backs buckets and shovels.
I rather miss most of my old people ... they really knew the score.
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:48 PM
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Just a point from my CCW class, deadly force is not justifiable to protect property.
Depends on the state. In mine it's perfectly legal. However, if you have a conscience, you are going to have to decide if that property is worth a human life. Even a total scumbag's life will have some value to a conscience after you take it away from him.
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:54 PM
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Bitstream,

Your repsonse sounds like an excellent way to incur large attorney fees.
Remember, you would probably have to defend yourself from criminal charges and civil charges. I don't know for sure, but I doubt if the castle doctrine applies to your yard. I would think that if you saw someone in your yard, you would be better off remaining inside your dwelling and calling 911.
I was in the repo business many years ago, so I do have some knowledge of that business. The repo is not a surprise to the customer. The finance company tries to contact the customer to resolve the matter before they have to repo the car. Ford Motor Credit would send a series of letters to the customer advising of the repo. Also, who knows better than the customer that payments are past due. The finance company never wants to repo a vehicle. They are in the finance business, not retail auto business. I never repoed any vehicle that was worth what was owed on it. Dean
1) I didn't say I was just going to start shooting. I said I'd slip out and challenge them from a cover position. I'm pretty sure I have the right to challenge an intruder in my yard in the middle of the night. If they don't go grabbing for anything, then we'll all be just fine and safe while we wait for the police to arrive.
2) I guess the person might have an idea that their car is under threat of repo, but some of us don't wake up in the middle of the night and run down a list of good reasons somebody is creeping around in our yard. Besides, just because you might expect a repo man, doesn't mean the intruder actually IS a repo man and not somebody sneaking around to break in your house and harm you and your family. I'd rather find out their story from a position of strength.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:40 AM
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Bit,
Didn't say anything about immediately shooting. I merely pointed out that if you shoot someone because you thought they were "going for something", I would expect there to be legal repercussions. At the very least, a civil wrongful death suit. That would probably be a wallet lightening experience.
There would be no "guess" about the repo. As I said before, the customer knows he or she has not made payments. The customer has been contacted on several occasions advising of the upcoming repo.
I still think you would be better off to stay inside and call 911 no matter how long response took. If the person you saw outside your home tried to come inside, then I would think any action you took to prevent that would be considered by most to be justifiable. If you do not agree, that is fine. I was just trying to point out that the legal ramnifications can be extremely expensive. Dean
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:49 AM
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Unfortunately, lawyers and our present justice system have removed a large amount of cojones from the men in society. When was the last time anyone was able to actually demand satisfaction in a most satisfying way?
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:06 AM
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...A dark figure in the middle of the night on your property represents a real and present threat to your life...
An unknown person on your property in the middle of the night represents a *potential* threat.

Very big difference.

Based on the limited information available it seems there was more than enough stupidity to go around.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:56 PM
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This one took place 45 years ago, but I still get a kick out of it! I was liveing in north hollywood california. I had a old friend that came to my house that was badly beaten up and a sight! How he got beat up was a almost unbeliveable story in this day and age, as he claimed some burbank cops beat him and left him laying. He could be a mouthy drunk, so I think I pretty well knew how it went. Anyway he was liveing with a brother that had a position with warner brother studios, kind of high up. "Carl" had just flown his personal airplane in from back east, was looking for a job with no car etc. We had somehow become friends and did a little flying together. He wanted to stay with me untill he healed up as he was for some reason ashamed for his high powered brother to see him all black and blue.
Somehow his brother did find out he was staying with me. He came over and talked with carl a few minutes, then said follow me out to the car, I have a stack of mail for you, and they went out together. Carl didnt have a shirt on and with his face looking like hamburger looked baaad!
Soon I hear someone swearing at someone and here comes carl running in the house with my neighbor hot on his heels a few feet behind carl. The neighbor is only wearing underwear shorts and screaming, I am gonna kill ya! The neighbor could have done it too, as he was a rough stunt man in the movie industry! He chased carl right into my house and I had to get in between the two. Come to find out carl had his head down reading his mail, went into the neighbors house that looked identical to mine. (It was two cheap rentals on the same lot). Carl later told me the neighbor and his wife were "getting it on" when he walked in!
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:16 PM
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This one took place 45 years ago, but I still get a kick out of it! I was liveing in north hollywood california. I had a old friend that came to my house that was badly beaten up and a sight! How he got beat up was a almost unbeliveable story in this day and age, as he claimed some burbank cops beat him and left him laying. He could be a mouthy drunk, so I think I pretty well knew how it went. Anyway he was liveing with a brother that had a position with warner brother studios, kind of high up. "Carl" had just flown his personal airplane in from back east, was looking for a job with no car etc. We had somehow become friends and did a little flying together. He wanted to stay with me untill he healed up as he was for some reason ashamed for his high powered brother to see him all black and blue.
Somehow his brother did find out he was staying with me. He came over and talked with carl a few minutes, then said follow me out to the car, I have a stack of mail for you, and they went out together. Carl didnt have a shirt on and with his face looking like hamburger looked baaad!
Soon I hear someone swearing at someone and here comes carl running in the house with my neighbor hot on his heels a few feet behind carl. The neighbor is only wearing underwear shorts and screaming, I am gonna kill ya! The neighbor could have done it too, as he was a rough stunt man in the movie industry! He chased carl right into my house and I had to get in between the two. Come to find out carl had his head down reading his mail, went into the neighbors house that looked identical to mine. (It was two cheap rentals on the same lot). Carl later told me the neighbor and his wife were "getting it on" when he walked in!
Sounds like Carl was in the middle of one really bad week.
ya dont happen to know if hes still among the living yet?
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:31 PM
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Carrying a firearm is a tremendous responsibility and to do so we need to remember why. It's to defend ourselves and family from immediate harm. Speaking for myself, I'm not there to protect the general public, that was my job in law enforcement. Officers are required by law to intervene and protect the public, and have the authority to do so. As a civilian I do not. I will not shoot a person I find in my front yard going through my truck. I will call 911 and wait however long it takes for the police to respond. In the meanwhile I'll stay within my home, positioned to defend my family until the police arrive. ONLY if I feel an immediate threat to myself or family will I use deadly force. Most of us understand how serious this issue is. We cannot afford to make a mistake because the consequences will be profound. And every time someone does something stupid with a firearm it gives more ammo (pun intended) to the Anti-gun lobby. So please remember, every time you place a weapon in your hand your taking on a great responsibility for which you will be held accountable. Stay safe.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:47 PM
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Time for my repo story:

Back in 1990 I'd been driving junk for way too long. I had a good job and wanted a reliable car (I had 2, the newest 7 years old). So I found myself a brand new and nearly unobtainable 454SS chevy PU. Nice ride. I'd only had it for maybe 6 months. I worked a good day and drove home. The house up on the hill had a concrete slab I'd poured to park on, right in the back yard. I turned the truck around, parked it and went inside to take off my dress clothes. I heard a noise outback and looked. There was some idiot with one of those homemade wreckers (a frame in the bed) trying to hook up to my new truck!

I went from mellow to beyond mad. So I grabbed my 12ga double and ran/jumped down the stairs. I yelled at my son to call 911, they're trying to steal my truck. We had a verbal altercation (to put it mildly), with me offering to separate the halves of his body if he even tried to take my truck. He was the one making some pretty ugly threats.

Son came outside with the cordless phone with the 911 operator asking what's going on. He told her "dad has a double barrel and the guy is about to get shot". For whatever reason, that tends to get the locals in a hurry.

The repo man/thief was becoming even more upset and started to walk toward me. I told him he was close to suicide. Better still, I could hear the sirens coming. He walked back to the front of his truck to wait. Within seconds the cops were there. Plural cops. First thing they wanted to know was where the shotgun was. Inside the back door.

So then they set about getting the story. Seems there was a repo order out on a black 454SS (they were all black) and he'd been looking for it all week. He saw me drive past the liquor store where he'd been sitting. So he followed me home to repo my truck. Cool. So the cop was a little short with me, but he asked my why I hadn't made my payments. Good question. I had the answer "because I didn't take a loan out on it."

So I took the offensive (I can be pretty offensive when I try). I told the cop if he'd hold this car thief, I'd go upstairs and get my title. Clear title, as with no lien registered on it. The cop said that sounds good. So I went in, found my file folder with the title and registration and came back out. The cop looked at it, then walked around to look at the license plate, then to see the VIN. Yep.

Cop #2 was with the thief. The cop with my paperwork wanted to see his paperwork. He had a scribbled note that he felt was a good work order. Except for a minor problem: Wrong license number, wrong VIN. He hadn't bothered to check, he had a truck to take with him. Not a good situation. So I became even more irritated. His wrecker didn't even have a company name or phone number, just an old truck with a wrecker arm. I wanted him arrested for attempted theft. The cop was more cool headed.

They let the scoundrel go with a warning to never be seen again by them. Then the cop nicely told me it wasn't OK to shoot car thieves, even if they did deserve it. It was maybe 6:00 PM, broad daylight.

I asked what would have happened if he'd gotten away with my truck. The answer was classic. I'd have never seen it again. It had high demand parts, it would have gone to a wrecking yard, impound lot. When they discovered a mistake, it would be too risky and embarrassing to return it. It would have submerged.

I was pretty upset for a few weeks after that. I parked on the inside with my wifes car on the outside. I'd hear them moving it. But I had to drive it to work each day. If it had gone missing, I'd have tracked the guy to the end of the earth. He'd have paid, big time.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:30 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
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I don't want to go into warstories here. But I have dealt with repo men on a professional level many times over the years. Some of the dealings were friendly...most were not. I have ran into repo men and their scouts with a similar mindset to the following, which happened over twenty years ago:
The repo man worked at night, usually between 2 and 4 in the morning. He carried an "Evil Black Rifle" with a fully loaded 30 round magazine in it. The guy was TROUBLE all the way and loved to talk trash. He told us, in front of the client, that if he got orders to get a car, he'd get the car and use the rifle on ANYONE who got in his way. He then went on about a family who came out while he was repossessing a car. He pointed a gun at "the crying little daughter" and told the father he'd shoot the girl if he tried to stop him. He got the car. Nothing happened. I took it as BS.
Found out a while later he wasn't BSing and he did that thing "regularly"
Since then, I treat EVERY repo man/scout I come across from that standpoint even though Texas law spells out pretty much what a repo man can and cannot do these days.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
Time for my repo story:


They let the scoundrel go with a warning to never be seen again by them. Then the cop nicely told me it wasn't OK to shoot car thieves, even if they did deserve it. It was maybe 6:00 PM, broad daylight.

I asked what would have happened if he'd gotten away with my truck. The answer was classic. I'd have never seen it again. It had high demand parts, it would have gone to a wrecking yard, impound lot. When they discovered a mistake, it would be too risky and embarrassing to return it. It would have submerged.

.
See, this is about what I was getting at. If you do the "right" thing like a good little citizen and sit inside at the window and wait for the cops to show up, good luck at what happens next. rburg would have lost his truck. Yes, you are right, it's just property and a life is more important, but if we just sit there waiting for the police, then we might as well just give all our hard earned stuff away to whatever lowlife demands it. What purpose is working hard and earning things? We just keep giving thieves everything because we're too worried about their rights.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitstream View Post
...If you do the "right" thing like a good little citizen and sit inside at the window and wait for the cops to show up, good luck at what happens next...Yes, you are right, it's just property and a life is more important, but if we just sit there waiting for the police, then we might as well just give all our hard earned stuff away to whatever lowlife demands it. What purpose is working hard and earning things? We just keep giving thieves everything because we're too worried about their rights.
So...which is it?

In most jurisdictions killing someone over property will result in an extended prison term. My family (and my time with them) is worth more than any "hard earned" thing. My stuff is insured; if something's stolen, I'll get another just like it.

It's not about being "a good little citizen." It's about choosing the lesser of two evils.

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Old 01-22-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frailer View Post
So...which is it?

In most jurisdictions killing someone over property will result in an extended prison term. My family (and my time with them) is worth more than any "hard earned" thing. My stuff is insured; if something's stolen, I'll get another just like it.

It's not about being "a good little citizen." It's about choosing the lesser of two evils.
Your overlooking some handy mid ground .... "Detained for further processing" might be beneficial to the police, whos presence is optional in the commission of a crime
I think RBurgs account was handled rather elegantly
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:51 PM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
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venomballistics: Carl was a world war two vet probley 20 years older than me. If still alive I suppose he would be over 90 years old. Its a small world. I met carl in a bar back in 1965 or 1966. Some people were telling flying storys and I was takeing lessons. At the time carl looked like a well, kinda like a bum. Hadnt shaved in a week or so. He said if you drive me to the airport we will go flying, I dont own a car, just flew in from indianna. I am here looking for work. I took him up on it and we became friends. Later he told me he had worked in wisconsin at wawatosa airport as a chief instructor pilot and crop duster etc. Then I got to wondering. I had my first plane ride at that airport in that time frame when I was about 11 or 12 years old. The pilot I had recalled looked something like carl but a lot younger. Later I took a vacation home to wisconsin and found a picture my mother had taken of me, my sister and carl standing together in front of a old stinson! Whats the odds of that!
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:22 PM
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About 4 years ago here in Racine a man was awakened by his wife. 3 young men were breaking into his car and stealing the radio. He went outside and they stopped and started to run away he shot two, both in the back one died and one did not.

His neighbors and a lot of other folks began a saying he was protecting his property, his car had been broken into before and he was tired of the Racine PD not showing up. This story went on a few days.

I knew the man, and alot of his supporters did not he was a convicted drug dealer who had spent 5 years in prison. One that I worked in so he wasn't allowed to have a firearm to begin with when that hit the papers most of his supporters disappeared. All 3 car burglars had records too.

He went to prison and will be there for a very long time, in Wisconsin you can defend yourself as long as the the perpatrator preasents a direct threat to you or someone else but you cannot shoot a fleeing burglar over a car radio.


As for repo men I have met only 2 once when my uncle gave up his corvette after his divorce and once when one showed up at the Center parking lot looking for an employees car. Both were very rude.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:06 PM
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How about we just put it in a responsible adults point of view?
Someone is in my car in my driveway. I'm having bad times money wise due to work issues.
I know I haven't been paying my car payment. Repo man tells me this when I catch him.
I say.. Let me get my personal stuff out of the car and be on your way.
Pretty damned simple!!
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun-runner View Post
How about we just put it in a responsible adults point of view?
Someone is in my car in my driveway. I'm having bad times money wise due to work issues.
I know I haven't been paying my car payment. Repo man tells me this when I catch him.
I say.. Let me get my personal stuff out of the car and be on your way.
Pretty damned simple!!
that being the case ... you'd likely not meet a repo man unless of course he was targeting the wrong car as was rburg's case.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
Your overlooking some handy mid ground .... "Detained for further processing" might be beneficial to the police, whos presence is optional in the commission of a crime
I think RBurgs account was handled rather elegantly
It turned out fine in the end, and I wasn't there, so it's not my place to judge how that particular situation was handled.

As a boy I witnessed my father and our neighbors hold a couple of thieves at gunpoint until the sheriff arrived, and I'll admit I've told the story with some pride on more than one occasion.

With that said, it's essential to weigh the potential outcomes before taking action. As for me, I've never pointed a gun at someone unless I felt my own life or the life of someone I was responsible for was in danger, and I don't plan to start now.

But everyone has to make their own decisions.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:45 PM
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Years back my client was accosted by a little gansta with a record a mile long. Little gansta robbed him at gunpoint-took his money. Client went home and got his S&W 65 ( it was a pre lock pre MIM) and went looking for the t'ief. Found him and from about a half a block the little gansta pulled a fake gun on him-my guy took a snap shot and caught him between the eyes. (don't you hate luck?) Killed him deader than a mackrel.
My guy argued it was self defense pure and simple and wanted a trial. I convinced him that the odds were that if the jury bought the self defense argument and acquitted him in the shooting that they for sure would find him guilty of being a felon in possession of a stolen handgun. At the end of the day he plead no contest to manslaughter for a 20 year sentence and guilty to being a felon in possession of a firearm and got 15 years to run concurrent.
Down here they call that a "Two fer"
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:56 PM
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Anybody more than two months behind on their car note oughta know who that is in their yard after dark. I don't really care for repo men. They invite trouble. There is a legal way to retrieve a car through the courts. It's called a replevin. Here it costs $60.00 for the replevin and a $200.00 tow bill from the towing company. That's $140 cheaper than what the repo man charges and it's all done by a LEO with a court order. I've been to several calls where the repo man gets "caught" trying to snatch a car. If he doesn't have a court order, and I haven't seen anybody with one yet, I order them off the premises and advise them they are trespassing, and then tell them which court to go to to get as replevin. The copy of a contract doesn't mean anything to me without a court order. These guys bluff their way through most of this stuff because a lot of people they deal with don't know any better.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:20 AM
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Guys, in Texas it quite Legal and Proper to use Deadly Force to protect property from being stolen during the night time.
I worked several cases from Vehicle Burglary to Theft of Firewood where the perps have either been killed or wounded by the home owner. I had one Home Owner shoot a thief off of his riding lawn mower as he was headed down the street with a 30-30. Never once have I seen the Victim of the Crime indicted. I have seen Letters of Commendation given to the Victims of the Terrible Crimes by the Grand Jury.

And Texas is now a Castle Doctrine State and I don't even see the Victims of the Crime get sued anymore. I have a couple of good friends who are attornies and they say most lawyers refuse to take that type of law suit in Texas and they haven't seen anybody win in a long time.

Here's what the Texas Law says:

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

Quote:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Texas is a great place to live if you believe in Law and Order.

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Old 01-24-2011, 12:57 AM
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Amen,Amen,Amen
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:22 PM
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There's another side of the repo man that disgusts me. They may not all be quilty, but I bet more are than not.

A girl who worked for me had some problems. Mostly the inability to keep her legs together, and the aftermath. She hadn't been making her car payments. Finally her dad found out when someone tried to take her car. Lucky for her it was blocked in. But then her dad did the family thing. He called GMAC (another bunch of jerks, but I guess they've been burned a time or two.) What they told him was there was a repo order out on her car. He could pay her up to date, with penalties, and they'd stop the repo.

So he did. They wouldn't even take a personal check (I guess back to the being burned part.) So he had to go to his bank and get both a certified check and some cash (they couldn't/wouldn't tell him the exact amount.) He had to go to their offices and pay up. Dad's do things for their kids they probably shouldn't. At least she was out of trouble. It was getting near Christmas. As part of the GMAC deal he paid the past due amounts, and a full month in advance. She was free and clear until mid January. Life was good (except she had 2 kids by 2 different fathers.)

At work one day our maintenance man came to my office grinning. He was a repo guy in the past, also a jerk (but I repeat myself). He'd just stood by and watched someone repo a car out of our office lot. My question was why he didn't pull a company truck across the entrance. He didn't like the girl (our girl from above.) It had been over 2 full weeks and she hadn't given a thought to them still having an active repo order out. But away the car went. With all her Christmas presents and other stuff inside.

And guess what? No one could find that car. We involved the local PD because she had a receipt showing she was up to date on her loan. A day or two after Christmas they located her car. Some problems. The stuff inside was all missing. Well, that and there was some body work needed. Wrecker drivers sometimes don't really care. The locals did a great job of threatening the repo guy and his impound yard. She actually did get back a small amount of her stuff (the stuff without receipts, the assumption being they took her stuff back and got cash for the returns.) But the threat was they'd get arrested for grand theft over the deal.

It seems like anything found inside the repo'd vehicle somehow becomes the property of the repo guy. Not supposed to, and there's even a way they're supposed to bag and store it. Of course that never happens. All she got back was her car, the local chevy dealer did the body work, and a cash settlement (I'd believe she padded that, and if she did, its OK with me.)

There really may be honest repo men out and about. But I bet if they're honest, they can tell much better stories than we can about their co-workers. Its an ugly business. Its a shame people don't pay their debts.
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:34 PM
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:28 PM
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Entering into a possible armed conflict over my auto? Not for me.
911 and my insurance agent can deal with these type things... that's what I pay them for.
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