Why Are Some Folks Against S&W? (newbie question)

[s1mp13m4n]

I am new to guns and am curious about something. I hear from some including my cousin and uncle to avoid S&W all together for some reasons I do not understand. I can understand their point of view on a S&W handgun being over priced and such, ok I get that, but that is not my issue. It seems that some folks have a beef with S&W for reason that seem to be political. Is it a similar issue as to why some like and dislike the NRA in the gun community? My state gun organization askes you to ban S&W. This is under their list of places to avoid/bit gun friendly, etc. Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL)
To me as a newbie when I think about a handgun I think of S&W, Ruger, and Colt as the brand names I know the best. I am in the market for my first gun, which I already have a thread about and I would prefer it be a MADe In The USA firearm over an import. Thanks for the help with this debate issue that may not even have merit.

[A10]

Well, the new S&W revolvers are expensive, but they are more available than the new Colt revolvers. As far as price of the M&P semiautos go, they are on a par with Glocks, and they are a good dependable gun. For 1911s, the E series is hard to beat, and I'd much prefer one of them to a Kimber.

The companys political stance, you say? Do they prefer Rugers?

[Moonman]

Wow!

You can change firearms manufacturers but,

You can't choose or change your relatives!

[diamonback68]

I think it's mostly about the Internal Lock that peeves most people, but it's much ado about nothing, IMNSHO. If they don't like the lock and not all new Smiths have them, then tell them "don't buy one then."

[wheelgun28]

I dont know exactly but some people hold resentment for S&W caving into the Clinton administration and adding locks to the gun. The locks themselves are still somewhat controversial. I wont pick a side on this, I will let you make your own choice on the matter.

Another point it buying a used item has no bearing on the company that made it (most of the time but not always). So buying a good used vintage S&W has no value to the current company.

You will find many people hold a grudge with Ruger and some folks will not buy one today. Bill Ruger went around touting that no one need a magazine more than ten round...

Other folks may have better/ different reasons.


You pay your money, you take your choice...

[feralmerril]

Why dont you ask him to be more specfic? Maybe political. My mom was very religious. We didnt go to movies. My dad noticed the 10 commandments were playing. He wanted to see it. Mom said if we did, you are contributing to the wicked industry. I asked her did she check the shoe factory to see if they were all christian employees before she bought her shoes?

[HotRoderX]

Sounds like some of my family growing up I was told Smith and Wessons where over priced junk. The family member came to this conclusion. When my uncle manged to destory his 686 357magnum shooting 357mangum +P rounds which after some google fu I am guessing was a 357mangum loaded to 357max pressure?

I am really happy I decided to give Smith and Wesson a try I love there revolvers and rifles. Might pay a bit more but you also get a more refined product. That if treated right will out last you.

[s1mp13m4n]

I will ask him when I talk to him again and see why he is the way he is about S&W. Being a gun newbie I have no real input on the internal gun lock or not issue. I think that S&W must make some nice quality new handguns, if they didn't then they would not still be around.

[Moonman]

Elmer Keith BLEW UP a bunch of Smiths, but he was experimenting loading
up to the Ultra-Max, his mission in life it seems.

He still got and shot more Smith's.

[mkk41]

Because S&W claims to be the worlds largest handgun manufacturer and as we all know , handguns are EVIL and the root of all crime.

Now to be serious.

S&W and Colt were once the very definition of quality and craftsmanship in handguns. Modern manufacturing methods and economic realities have cause a shift in those ideals. Having been in manufacturing/engineering , I've always said 'new & improved' actually means 'easier & cheaper to manufacture'.

Just look at and compare a revolver from the 1950s and today. The fit , the finish , the smoothness of the action. That took a lot of skill and handwork. Granted , modern CNC machinery may have eliminated much part variation and need for hand fitting , but not all. And certainly that mirror polishing and deep slow-rust bluing can only be done by hand , by skilled craftsmen. And they take time.
Unfortunately , those skills are dying out , as are men willing to learn those skills. And time = money.

You're not going to stay in business very long if your products are too expensive for people to buy. And as a result of rushing product thru , there have been several quality control issues.

S&W as well as most gun manufacturers were put between a rock and a hard place by politics , mandating locks and such. Many gun purists don't like being 'forced' to accept someone elses vision of 'safety' and see this as 'giving in' to the anti-gun agenda of the left.

But we'll leave the political discussion at that.

[s1mp13m4n]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Because S&W claims to be the worlds largest handgun manufacturer and as we all know , handguns are EVIL and the root of all crime.

Now to be serious.

S&W and Colt were once the very definition of quality and craftsmanship in handguns. Modern manufacturing methods and economic realities have cause a shift in those ideals. Having been in manufacturing/engineering , I've always said 'new & improved' actually means 'easier & cheaper to manufacture'.

Just look at and compare a revolver from the 1950s and today. The fit , the finish , the smoothness of the action. That took a lot of skill and handwork. Granted , modern CNC machinery may have eliminated much part variation and need for hand fitting , but not all. And certainly that mirror polishing and deep slow-rust bluing can only be done by hand , by skilled craftsmen. And they take time.
Unfortunately , those skills are dying out , as are men willing to learn those skills. And time = money.

You're not going to stay in business very long if your products are too expensive for people to buy. And as a result of rushing product thru , there have been several quality control issues.

S&W as well as most gun manufacturers were put between a rock and a hard place by politics , mandating locks and such. Many gun purists don't like being 'forced' to accept someone elses vision of 'safety' and see this as 'giving in' to the anti-gun agenda of the left.

But we'll leave the political discussion at that.

What you said makes sense. My cousin and uncle are not the type of people who would research anything in a library or did deep to find the truth. I found out that basically what I was hearing from my cousin and uncle are not first hand accounts but rather stories retold and the facts changed from a story about gun control and S&W passed down from this person and that person, etc. You know what I mean? Going from what you typed above....heck a lot of companies are guilty of quality control issues thus that makes the so called S&W issue meaningless I guess. There will always be issues on gun control and what some law maker thinks is right for us all. Thanks for explaing this a bit.

[jaykellogg]

Well, Para Ordinance has a rep for lousy customer service, so does Taurus. Spikes Tactical got bad mouthed for raising prices after the 2008 election and Kahr has some issues with the Reverend Moon connection. I spoke to a man today who said if you wanted a good Kimber you needed to buy two of them.

IMO S&W makes a pretty good product and has pretty good warranty terms and good customer service. Also their guns do not seem more expensive than other comparable guns.

The main issue I have with Colt is they never seem to be in stock.

[kudzu3]

S&W used to make fine guns, now with MIM parts, the ugly lock, re-designed frame, funny looking laminated grips of unknown wood, they just ain't what they used to be. I would not hesitate to buy an older S&W in decent condition, but just don't want that stuff they're putting out now. Politics have nothing to do with it, I just don't like the S&Ws of today.

[s1mp13m4n]

Thanks for the help.