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Old 03-18-2011, 07:04 AM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
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Default Confused and need understanding

I do not understand world affairs. Maybe I was educated past my level of intelligence but somethings elude me in life.

As I learned this morning, the US gives billions of dollars each year in foreign aid to China. I understand that but fail to understand why we give aid to China.

Add to that we borrow money from China because the US does not have the money we need to operate the government.

Since we give more in aid than we borrow, why do we give China any amount of money? If they are able to loan money, then why do they need money?

To me, this is like borrowing money from those to whom we give welfare.

Can anyone explain this to me?
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:09 AM
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Could we have some details, please? How much, and for what, exactly? I'd like to understand this myself.


Bullseye


P.S.: I cannot find any official reference to US foreign aid to the Peoples' Republic of China, or, the Republic of China (Taiwan) in the most recent edition of the Statistical Abstract of the United States (2011) put out by the US Bureau of the Census, which publishes such things annually. See: http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s1298.pdf. Does anyone else have a source to support Oldman's worries?
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Last edited by Bullseye 2620; 03-18-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:23 AM
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Bullseye, I got some of my info from seeing a paper that an attorney friend was reseaching last night. He does International Law.

Some of my info came from Google. China is also listed as being Hong Kong . I googled US aid to China and got a lot of hits.

As to the paper I was shown, the US gives China some 12 billion in Industrial aid during 2009.

I do not understand any of it but then I have never studied foreign relations in school.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:13 AM
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Without seeing the exact source material, it is difficult to say what they are referring to. $12 billion in economic aid seems way out of line though.

The US spends money in China every year, but most of these projects are small, and directly related to our political agenda there. For example, we provide money for disaster relief ($100,000), and to train Tibetan nomads in range management. See: USAID Asia - Countries - China-Tibet or http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWFiles2010.nsf/FilesByRWDocUnidFilename/SKEA-84ZG5W-full_report.pdf/$File/full_report.pdf.

The reason I say that $12 billion seems way high is that the total US foreign aid budget is about $20 billion, and a third of that goes to Israel and Egypt. On the other hand, I will bet that US investment by private US companies in China well exceeds $12 billion. But we get something tangible for that -- factories and machinery we own, etc.

I never studied foreign relations either.


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Old 03-18-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620 View Post
.I never studied foreign relations either.

Bullseye
Maybe not but you are intelligent.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quit thinking, shut up and pay your taxes!
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:30 AM
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Maybe someone can also 'splain why the federal government subsidizes oil companies for oil exploration costs, which the oil companies post gazillions of $$$ in profits?

I can understand why gasoline prices are going up; BP has a $40 billion-with-a-B bill to pay for the Gulf of Mexico coverup . . . er . . cleanup.

Noah
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:38 AM
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I did have several courses in International Relations on my way to a BS (appropriate, huh?) in PoliScience. It was a long, long time ago, though.

Back then, so-called Foreign Aid was at least as big an issue as it is now. I was taught, by a couple of fairly conservative professors, that most of the Aid was given largely as credits to American businesses, particularly heavy industry and construction, that the money had to be spent with these American businesses, and that goods purchased had to be shipped via American carriers.

I don't know what the reality is now. Since much of the heavy equipment is manufactured somewhere other than the US, I guess that part no longer applies.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:06 PM
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Borrow, loan, trade; it's all diplomacy. Establishing economic and political relationships for future considerations.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:38 PM
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Borrow, loan, trade; it's all diplomacy. Establishing economic and political relationships for future considerations.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy", until you can find a rock to throw.

Sir Winston Churchill
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:58 PM
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The bottom line is this. Big business owns the government lock stock and barrel. Is it fair? Of course not. Is it moral? No. Do we have to like it? No. Do we have to live with it? We don't have to but probably will. For years big business was doing well, allowing the "Middle Class" to enjoy some of the wealth. Then they became greedy and it's everyone for themselves. The Middle Class is this country is disappearing. Look to some of the South American countries for examples. Two classes. The wealthy and everyone else. Our financial problems are just beginning. We borrow billions each year from China to finance our lifestyle. When that money stops we'll either have to pay our own way or.....? We can get mad at Big Business, or the Government (the same thing in my opinion) but their response will be "So, sue me".
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont View Post
The bottom line is this. Big business owns the government lock stock and barrel. Is it fair? Of course not. Is it moral? No. Do we have to like it? No. Do we have to live with it? We don't have to but probably will. For years big business was doing well, allowing the "Middle Class" to enjoy some of the wealth. Then they became greedy and it's everyone for themselves. The Middle Class is this country is disappearing. Look to some of the South American countries for examples. Two classes. The wealthy and everyone else. Our financial problems are just beginning. We borrow billions each year from China to finance our lifestyle. When that money stops we'll either have to pay our own way or.....? We can get mad at Big Business, or the Government (the same thing in my opinion) but their response will be "So, sue me".
Baloney. Never in World History have so many enjoyed as much wealth as we do in the United States today. You make it sound like we are 19th Century Russian Serfs. I am a farmer and teacher, and come from a line that has included farmers and teachers since the late 1700s. Even my parents never dreamed of the "things" I am able to have now.

You need to check out the tin-foil hat thread and get fitted for one. It's a conspiracy.

That isn't to say there is nothing wrong with our economy and our government, but to make statements like this is just wrong. Here you and I are, middle of the afternoon, with the leisure time and the means to be having this discussion.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:04 PM
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You got that right, redlevel.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont View Post
The bottom line is this. Big business owns the government lock stock and barrel.
If this were true, we wouldn't have the plethora of regulatory restrictions (labor laws, environmental regs, etc.) that choke business. Nor would we have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:57 PM
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If this were true, we wouldn't have the plethora of regulatory restrictions (labor laws, environmental regs, etc.) that choke business. Nor would we have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world.
. . . nor would we have a Socialist in the WH.

Sorry. Couldn't he'ppit.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:15 PM
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Here's some more confusion for the confused. Deficits are going to be LARGER than predicted

CBO: Obama understates deficits by $2.3 trillion | General Headlines | Comcast.net
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:17 PM
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I'm confused.
Can anyone help me understand why we have a thread that is basically political, with numerous political comments, when politics is a banned subject?
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