Bad Stuff Going On Around Here.

[charlie sherrill]

It started earlier this week with an older couple (both were 81 years old) being beaten to death in an apparent home invasion. I know their son, who is a local bail bondsman. I'm not involved in this investigation so I really don't know where they are with it. Home invasions are rare around here and when they do happen they usually involve someone from a larger city where they are more common.

About 4 1/2 hours ago at a local gun shop I frequent the owner was apparently jumped as he was locking up for the evening. He was shot in the back and later died on the operating table. He also deals in old coins and a lot of silver was missing. Probably some guns also but an inventory is incomplete. I know the victim but not as well as the previous owner, who I did a lot of business with. The victim bought this store less than a year ago. Two black males in a gold Mercury Marquis with a Hinds county Miss. tag (Jackson area) were seen in the area.

Info on both cases can be found at Hattiesburg American | Hattiesburg news, community, entertainment, yellow pages and classifieds. Serving Hattiesburg, Mississippi | hattiesburgamerican.com and WDAM - Channel 7 - Mississippi News, Hattiesburg, Laurel - 04 - Home Page. The latest case probably won't be found on the HA site for a few more hours.

[Maximumbob54]

I hope they are dumb enough to try and pull guns when the cops surround them.

[doublesharp]

Charlie, you know better than most that there is a sub class of human that attaches little value to life. They have no moral compass and are little more than animals. I think our country is in early stages of civil war and, until we abandon this pc bs, things will only get worse.

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I hope they are dumb enough to try and pull guns when the cops surround them.

I hope they stole some Glocks... you know how they like to stick em in the front in the waist band .... with booger hooks on the bang switches, all ya need to do is listen for the soprano section

[CAJUNLAWYER]

seems like the bad stuff comes in cycles

[The Last Standing Knight]

Originally Posted by doublesharp

Charlie, you know better than most that there is a sub class of human that attaches little value to life. They have no moral compass and are little more than animals. I think our country is in early stages of civil war and, until we abandon this pc bs, things will only get worse.

As much as I would like to disagree with you on this...I'm sad to say I can't.

We brought all of this on ourselves...we let it get to this point.

[David LaPell]

When the economy gets bad, crime goes up, its just a proven fact as some people instead of knuckling down and getting tough decide to take the easy way and steal what doesn't belong to them. One of my wife's relatives has had to call the phone company because in less than a month thieves have stripped out the wires from her nearby power pole for whatever copper and other metals they can get. The local scrapyard was broken into for copper and aluminum. For a little city and small towns we have had several home invasions, a couple of strong arm robberies, shoplifting has gone through the roof (people getting picked up at the Wally World for alot of baby formula thefts so they can resell it on Ebay).
Yes we did do this to ourselves in a way. We have become so much of a "freebie"society with welfare and all the perks that you can get that you don't earn or deserve. While there are some people who need them, I can tell you that like any free give away, some take advantage. As Will Durant once said, "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." We are fast working on that I am afraid.

[Engine 21]

Originally Posted by The Last Standing Knight

As much as I would like to disagree with you on this...I'm sad to say I can't.

We brought all of this on ourselves...we let it get to this point.

I have to say that the problems in the American culture today stem back several decades with the idea that you don't have to go to work and earn a living, get educated and be responsible and accountable for your actions. The lib media idolizing these reality misfits and people like the Paris Hiltons, and the Lohans and the dozens of other spoiled little brats that run around and contributed nothing cause the new generation to think and believe this is the way you live - you don't work, people just give you what you want and if they don't then just take it. If you need more proof - look at the Salahi's (the couple that crashed the White House state dinner) They do nothing and are in debt to everyone and yet they illegally enter the White House and nothing happens to them. The young generations see this and thinks that's the way it is suppose to be. So, you have whole generations of uneducated, non skilled, out of work people who think it's ok to commit felonies and if someone gets killed in the process - oh well I got what I wanted. Yes it is our fault - starting back in the 70's and maybe we can't fix it. I know, I sound like an old goat and I am but I know how to work and that's a plus now days.

[BigBill]

The first thing that will sence things are about to go bad or wrong will be the dog. A lot of times if a big dog is present the'll look else where. My 150lb rottie shakes the house when she sounds off. We need to be armed and have the dog or dogs also. When i hear a noise at night if the dogs sound off then i know something is wrong if they stay quiet i know the noise is one of my cats and things are ok. I'm a very light sleeper but i still stay awake to listen things thru just to make sure everything is ok. There's no free lunch waiting here only lead is waiting plus the jaws of life and there hungry too. We need to protect ourselves in every way we can in today's world. We can trust the dogs. Bill

[tripledipper]

We all will not agree 100% on the causes, but the problem is here and growing. A savage is a savage regardless of race. The only thing we can do is protect our families and property the best we can. The SHTF day is definitely coming whether it be from within or elsewhere. I hope I am on the wrong side of the grass when it happens.

[5Wire]

Originally Posted by David LaPell

When the economy gets bad, crime goes up ...

I think there's got to be more to it than that. There are regional differences as well as population size differences.

The 2010 FBI Uniform Crime Report published: "Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 5.5 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention in 2010 when compared to figures reported for 2009. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

[ChattanoogaPhil]

According to the data contained below, violent crime rate shows to be at the level experienced in the early 70's, and homicide rate lowest reported since 1960. Maybe some distortion due to conviction rate and such... but it certainly does not appear to be trending up in recent years.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mexica]

The one thing I do believe, is that we, the people are the answer to this problem. The government can't help us, we can help ourselves and each other. I've spent my entire adult life in the military, and whether I believe in any one thing that can save us, is our resolve as Americans, regardless of race, color, creed. Corny, but I do believe.

We need to hold ourselves accountable, and be informed about the things going on in Washington. We need to start holding our career politicians accountable, and firing them when they no longer represent us.
Michael

[5Wire]

What mexica said!

[Fishslayer]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

According to the data contained below, violent crime rate shows to be at the level experienced in the early 70's, and homicide rate lowest reported since 1960. Maybe some distortion due to conviction rate and such... but it certainly does not appear to be trending up in recent years.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whenever I see stuff that would support somebody's agenda I look at:

A. Who paid for the study?
B. Who stands to gain from the report?
C. How/Where was the data collected?
D. Have the "definitions" changed? (ie "What is a violent crime?)

How about reporting? I see all the time on property crimes...

"What did the police say?"

"Ahhh.... I didn't even report it. Waste of time."

[charlie sherrill]

Update: Three arrests were recently made in the gun store murder. Two males were charged with capital murder and one female charged with being an accessory after the fact of capital murder.

[5Wire]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer

Whenever I see stuff that would support somebody's agenda I look at:

A. Who paid for the study?
B. Who stands to gain from the report?
C. How/Where was the data collected?
D. Have the "definitions" changed? (ie "What is a violent crime?)

How about reporting? I see all the time on property crimes...

"What did the police say?"

"Ahhh.... I didn't even report it. Waste of time."

My question to you is, what agenda are you talking about?

Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source but in this case the data/study cited is from the United States Bureau of Justice and all your questions can be answered at that site. If you had read the Wiki, you'd know that.

I'll take a shot at short answers to your questions here:
A. Who paid for the study? Taxpayers.
B. Who stands to gain from the report? Criminal Justice organizations in the United States and, hopefully, its citizens.
C. How/Where was the data collected? From law enforcement organizations all across the country, month by month, every year for a long time.
D. Have the "definitions" changed? (ie "What is a violent crime?). No, the definitions haven't changed in any essential way I can see. Look them up for yourself. The definitions have been about the same since the FBI started the UCR in 1929 but the reporting methods have evolved to the "National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) Implementation Program."

You can begin answering your own questions here.

So, in spite of the economy worsening, violent crime has been decreasing in the United States. But there are hot spots that seem to be associated with certain geographic areas and population centers.

[5Wire]

Originally Posted by charlie sherrill

Update: Three arrests were recently made in the gun store murder. Two males were charged with capital murder and one female charged with being an accessory after the fact of capital murder.

I don't know how you feel about that, Charlie, but, to me, as good as it is to catch the criminals, quick arrests especially always seem to make such tragedies sadder because they emphasize the senseless nature of the criminal offense and the pointless tragedy of the loss to victims and families.

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Much of the crime problem is due to the high rate of illegitimacy, which, as George F. Will put it, produces "a continually renewed cohort of unruly adolescent males." Here in Mercer County, NJ a local pharmacist was just killed by an addict looking for a fix. What will happen to him? The taxpayers will pay for his lawyer. medical care, rehab programs, internet access and thanks to the recent abolition of capital punishment in this state he'll be up for parole in 20 years or so.

[OK Hog Shooter]

I'm with mexica and 5Wire!

[TACC1]

When a part of society is poor and unskilled, and can see no hope
of change, at all, and with no proper family structure to act as a
brake on personal wishes, the "spoiled child" takes what he/she wants
because they know they can't have what they want by the rules of
a civilised society. A "civilised" society is something that cannot be
grasped by people who've never seen one. It's imaginary, like TV.
Until society as a whole decides to weed out the losers, the rest of
us will just have to make it difficult for them to get what they want.
TACC1

[old bear]

Update: Three n'tarrests were recently made in the gun store murder. Two males were charged with capital murder and one female charged with being an accessory after the fact of capital murder.

Charlie I don't know if your agency was involved in the arrests, but one up for the good guys'.

[David LaPell]

Originally Posted by 5Wire

I think there's got to be more to it than that. There are regional differences as well as population size differences.

The 2010 FBI Uniform Crime Report published: "Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 5.5 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention in 2010 when compared to figures reported for 2009. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

I can tell you that in the last year my jail is more full of our own inmates than of the board ins we have been getting for the last six years. I can tell you what people have actually been arrested for. Alot of burglaries, alot of petit larcenies, and a whole heap of welfare and other frauds. I can remember when it was every two or three years between homicides. Now it is at least two a year. In an area where the population is maybe 25000 people, those are actually pretty big numbers. In Albany, NY they have hit the annual homicide numbers by March. Same with the nearby cities of Schenectady and Troy. While NYC's crime rate went down, the criminals moved outward and upward to the little towns that were not ready for them. A few years ago, gangs were unheard of except maybe Bloods. Now we have Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, Mexican street gangs, Zeta's, and some others. When they get booked in, they give their place of birth, almost all are from NYC. The big cities have some absolutely wonderful law enforcement, they have tactics and resources our little PD's could only dream of, and that is what these guys count on. Most cops and CO's in the jails have no idea what the ink on their arms mean, and where they have been. Mix those guys in with people out of work (this area is right around a solid 20% unemployed) and it is a perfect scenario for higher crime.

[K.38]

Our problems will never be fixed until we as a nation face up to the facts. Liberals and race baiters such as Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, rev Wright and others will keep the minorities down and poor because that is their power base. Until these people are stopped we are never going to fix the problem because they are the problem.

I remember a day on or about 4 May 1984 we were introduced to our Drill Instructors and one the first things out of his mouth was there are no Blacks, Whites, Browns, Reds etc in the Marine Corps only Green. Some of you may lighter or darker shades of green but it is only Marine Green. I always remembered that and took it to heart.

As Americans there should be no Black, White, Brown etc only Red, White and Blue. If you can't deal with it then move!

[Sebago Son]

Originally Posted by charlie sherrill

Update: Three arrests were recently made in the gun store murder. Two males were charged with capital murder and one female charged with being an accessory after the fact of capital murder.

Wanna fix the problem?


SOMEBODY GIT A ROPE!......

This makes a hell of lot more sense than the self loathing hand wringing, pretzel-logic social analysis and limpwristed finger pointing bantered about earlier in this thread...

This is not a complex problem.... If lawbreakers are not going to respect the law, they should be made to fear the community that they would prey upon.

[Engine 21]

Originally Posted by charlie sherrill

Update: Three arrests were recently made in the gun store murder. Two males were charged with capital murder and one female charged with being an accessory after the fact of capital murder.

Now if the prosecutor can put the case together and they have the right perps let the process begin. Do they have the death penalty in Mississippi?

[5Wire]

Originally Posted by David LaPell

I can tell you... Mix those guys in with people out of work (this area is right around a solid 20% unemployed) and it is a perfect scenario for higher crime.

Thread was violent crime with regional and municipal variances noted. The same reports show increases in other crime types.

[ladder13]

Inflation is down too, the gov't said so.

[OMCHamlin]

Originally Posted by doublesharp

I think our country is in early stages of civil war and, until we abandon this pc bs, things will only get worse.

I could not agree more, this country needs a bath something fierce.....

[cowboy117]

I'm thinking of the victims families.Very sad.IMHO,America is lost.Be prepared.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by 5Wire

I think there's got to be more to it than that. There are regional differences as well as population size differences.

The 2010 FBI Uniform Crime Report published: "Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 5.5 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention in 2010 when compared to figures reported for 2009. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."

Problem with these stats are that reporting is voluntary from the local agencies. New Orleans Police for instance are notorious for mis classifying crimes they report to make the city seem safer. I can tell you this-over the past 5 years the "quality" of our criminal element has progressivly gotten better. By that I mean that we are getting some REAL thugs. Scary stuff out there and it's getting worse. Total amorality which is the biggest problem. At least immoral pre-supposes that they know what is right and choose not to do it. The amorality we see now is truly disheartning as a whole generation has no idea of the concept of right and wrong. It has truly become a jungle out there and the only thing I see that would stop it is a total abandonment of our rule of law by enforcement agencies ratified by the public. Nobody has the stomach for that......................yet

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by mook012

Now if the prosecutor can put the case together and they have the right perps let the process begin. Do they have the death penalty in Mississippi?

Well I certainly hope so-they were charged with capital murder

[DeadAye]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

... It has truly become a jungle out there and the only thing I see that would stop it is a total abandonment of our rule of law by enforcement agencies ratified by the public. Nobody has the stomach for that......................yet

Well - Not nobody

[charlie sherrill]

As I mentioned earlier, all of our home invasions have involved at least one perp who was from a larger city where these things are more common. The girl who was arrested as an accessory is from New Orleans. One of the male perps is currently in jail...in New Orleans. There's some other stuff that I can't talk about right now, but when it becomes public knowledge I'll be back. I didn't know the old folks even though I do know their son. The gun store guy, Ed Cameron, has 22 years working with the City Of Hattiesburg (not police) and this store was to be his retirement job in another three years. He opened the store in the evenings and on Saturdays. The previous owner offered my son a very good deal on this store about three years ago and I advised Jr. not to buy it because I was concerned the incoming president at that time was going to mess things up. Good advice, wrong reason...so far.

[NKJ nut]

Today, there is a large part of the population who lives off of society rather than being a part of it and contributing to it. They simply take what they want from others, and that's in addition to the handouts in the form of gov't "aid" many of them are receiving.

Each of us needs to be prepared to meet violent crime with an appropriate response in the form of hot lead. The police overall do a good job but there is no way they can protect us from being a victim of violent crime. Only we can do that.

[Sebago Son]

Originally Posted by NKJ nut

Only we can do that.

AMEN Jessie, Amen....

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by TACC1

Until society as a whole decides to weed out the losers, the rest of
us will just have to make it difficult for them to get what they want.

How about ". . .make it dangerous to get what they want. . ."?

[armenius]

One advantagge of old age is seeing things in a different perspective.I grew up in a small Southern town in the 1930's and 1940's.The depression was still going on and nobody had much money,little or no Government help,(therefore no AC,cell phones and food stamps,cable TV etc.,but thats another story).Until I heard of a black on black Satutday night throat cutting all other knowlege of murder was what I learned in Sunday School with Cain and Able.No doors were ever locked and windows were left open.The first experience I had with stealing was when another kid stole my Pirate cap pistol.He grew up to have trouble in the Navy and later became a lawyer,then disbarred for misusing an old lady's funds.
In a nutshell poverty doesn't breed crime,lack of moral upbringing does.
Every morning in school we had a devotional and scripture,pledge of allegience and were scared to death or respected our teachers.We were blessed not to have TV.The heroes wore white hats.In grammar school if you had frisked us you might find a pocket knife,a couple or so 22 cal. cartridges,a fire cracker or two and some "kitchen" matches.Now you would be kicked out for any of these or the Bible.

[JcMack]

Here's a simplistic approach: Quite a while back we as believers were handed 10 basic laws to live by. Over the eons the basic 10 have been stretched, bent, and down right mutilated to suit the Earthly powers that be. The bends, stretchings, and mutilations have not benefited anyone but the very one's that laws had to be enacted for. The time to straighten this out is long gone. Keep your powder dry.

[charlie sherrill]

I said I'd be back, so here I am. The info I was sitting on was that the perps in this case were found in possession of items taken from the old couple who were beaten to death. It's public knowledge now and the investigation into their part of the double murder will now proceed. I saw one of them yesterday sitting shackled outside the nurses office in the jail waiting for treatment for whatever. He was wearing a bright yellow jumpsuit indicating he was a very high risk inmate. He looked bored and apathetic. Lot's of stuff went through my mind but I said nothing and walked off. Pics of two of them at Hattiesburg American | Hattiesburg news, community, entertainment, yellow pages and classifieds. Serving Hattiesburg, Mississippi | hattiesburgamerican.com.

[m657]

re: "Until society as a whole decides to weed out the losers, the rest of
us will just have to make it difficult for them to get what they want."

Every farmer and rancher knows there are culls in their crop, and knows what has to be done.

Whether that can or will be applied to our social conventions, so far such action has been deferred in favor of other theoretical solutions.

[JcMack]

I'm not shocked anymore but certainly dismayed at what is happening in our liberal land. Last month a guy was stealing eggs on what passes for a small farm about 15 miles east. He found 2 males bodies that the legs were sticking out of on a 15' pile of horse manure. Guys were eventually identified (glad I'm not into forensics) as drug guys from about 10 miles north of here.

[brown10]

I read somewhere that we still have some choices in this great country, some of which are what we want to be -

Sheep – Unarmed folk who are preyed upon
Wolves – Those that would prey upon the sheep
Shepherds – Those of us who choose not be preyed upon and who may choose to help protect the sheep.

I have many friends who are LEOs and one son who is a K9 officer. I respect them very much and the dangerous job they do. They seem to focus on investigating the “incident” and catching the wolves after the incident is over.

[Badkarma 1]

Originally Posted by brown10

I read somewhere that we still have some choices in this great country, some of which are what we want to be -

Sheep – Unarmed folk who are preyed upon
Wolves – Those that would prey upon the sheep
Shepherds – Those of us who choose not be preyed upon and who may choose to help protect the sheep.

I have many friends who are LEOs and one son who is a K9 officer. I respect them very much and the dangerous job they do. They seem to focus on investigating the “incident” and catching the wolves after the incident is over.

You forgot one other:"Trained Wolves" People like myself who have been trained to find, close with, and destroy wolves! Dale

[nawilson]

Originally Posted by brown10

They seem to focus on investigating the “incident” and catching the wolves after the incident is over.

Absolutely true... The job of law enforcement is to address the issues after the fact. In order for a crime to be committed and an arrest to be made, the criminal must actually do something first. I am sure no one on here would support the idea of preventative incarceration... I sure don't want the government doing that.

We must remember that government is a creation of society. As Jeff Cooper said, we get the government we deserve. Also, the creation cannot fix its creator. Until we as a society decide that we will not tolerate these outrages and that we will do what is necessary to stop them, the outrages will continue.

[shooboy]

My wife's boss lost his aunt and uncle to a drug addicted ***. They were in their 80's and their grandaughter's boyfriend needed a fix, so he killed them both. He got away with $40....... These kind of scum should suffer a quick but painful death instead of being allowed to breathe, what possible benefit could they be to society ??? Shoo

[Steve in Vermont]

So what is our alternative? Our Constitution is designed to protect everyone, including the minority from the "tyranny of the majority". Many of us don't trust our government as things are now. Would we trust them any more if we had fewer constitutional rights? Do we give the government more power? I guess we can say, about the rules of law, "can't live with them, can't live without them". Some problems just don't have solutions, just alternatives.

[K.38]

Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont

So what is our alternative? Our Constitution is designed to protect everyone, including the minority from the "tyranny of the majority". Many of us don't trust our government as things are now. Would we trust them any more if we had fewer constitutional rights? Do we give the government more power? I guess we can say, about the rules of law, "can't live with them, can't live without them". Some problems just don't have solutions, just alternatives.

Sir, I don't think giving the gov more power is the answer either but giving the people back their power is. What I mean by power back to the people is self-defense across the nation, deciding on a local level what is taught in school, being able to pray in school at ball games or where ever you want without some gov idiot or lib bringing a law suit against the person. Basically the power needs to be in the hands of the citizen and not the gov, ie. dept of ed etc.
We need to get back to what our founders gave us.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by shooboy

My wife's boss lost his aunt and uncle to a drug addicted ***. They were in their 80's and their grandaughter's boyfriend needed a fix, so he killed them both. He got away with $40....... These kind of scum should suffer a quick but painful death instead of being allowed to breathe, what possible benefit could they be to society ??? Shoo

Come on. You already answered your own question. Such a person can conceivably be of considerable benefit to society if he suffers a painful and well-publicized death as a direct and predictable result of his crime.

Everyone has a purpose in life, even if only to serve as a bad example.

[nawilson]

Amen, Model520fan! A wise man once told me that there is no such thing as a useless Soldier... even the most sorry one can serve as an example. The same holds true for the rest of society.

I do firmly believe that government is not the solution. As I said earlier, the creation cannot fix he creator. Until we as a society decide that we will not tolerate the insanity, things will continue to get worse.