I normally don't watch the news all that much. I'll check CNN in the mornings to see if the Martians have invaded or there is a batch of poison toothpaste or some such. Otherwise my days are consumed by entertaining and caring for two toddlers and one infant. Lots of Spongebob time, Penguins, and some WWE for variety. Eh. It's not bad.

My wife first mentioned this case to me, I didn't know any of the details. For those that don't follow the news either, it happened in Gary, Indiana. In a trailer park, though I don't know that the income level mattered. A father and step mother kept their 13 year old son locked away in a cage or chained to a bed frame. He'd be denied food and water and beaten. His only entertainment seems to have a been a pencil and paper, which he'd use to write horribly depressing missives about wanting to die, wanting food, being so thirsty etc.

Media reports vary a bit, but apparently the boy, Christian Choate, was unable or unwilling to eat one day so his father beat him in the head and tossed him into the cage where he died. Almost the last year of the boys life was spent living in a three foot high dog cage.

Most things, even the most sensational crimes don't really bother me to read about. Shrug, even when I lived in the ghetto amidst pimps, whores, dealers and thieves it wasn't all that bothersome. This though... It bothers me.

I keep looking at my boys as they sleep and wondering how. How could someone do that, to their own son. How could a mother never check on her son over a course of years. How. Shakes head. Suddenly I feel guilty just for raising my voice and yelling at the boys or not listening to them enough. (Toddlers repeat themselves, a lot.)

It just bothers me. Nothing bothers me, then something does. Can't get it out of my head for some reason. I try to take solace that for the parents any length of prison time ought be a death sentence. Yet the why of it all bothers me. Or rather the lack of a why that I could somehow understand.

It is just total insanity. I saw a lot of evil inflicted upon children over the years.

__________________
Fidelis Ad Mortem

I had not heard of this case untill now. I just googeled it for details. Next to unbeliveable! Jose biaz or simular will show up. It shakes me too. This pair wont get out of it though, they are too ugly!

Dad, stepmom charged in murder of boy found under concrete slab - PhotoGallery - Chicago Sun-Times

Profound posting amigo. I see it every day in the insanity I have to deal with-When my babies were little, I would come home late after they were in bed and just sit and stare at them. As I get older I have come to the conclusion that there is a devil and hell, for how else could one explain the existance of pure unadulterated evil that esists in this world. Don't let it get you down-don't dwell on it-just realize that you have created an oasis for you, Marti and your little ones and for that you are a good person.

__________________
Forum consigliere

i hope there is a special place in Hell for people like them..

I think that some people are just wired wrong. Their brain functions so that normal thought patterns, such as love, empathy, and compassion, are missing. They are abberations and are are so broken that they can't be fixed. There have been people like this throughout history. If a person like this is raised in a disfunctional home a sociopath is made. People like this commit the horrendous crimes that you describe.

there are so many reasons we buy guns. history, beauty, performance, utility, collections .....
this thread embodies two of thousands of reasons to be armed.
yeah buddy, youve brushed shoulders with a few in your life .. we all have whether we know it or not.

__________________
it just needs more voltage

Some people are alive because.........

Change this from kittens to children and I do believe I would take the law into my own hands. But my feelings are the same either way.

The fact that you're so bothered just shows your humanity.

__________________
Proud anachronism

"The girl said she attempted CPR on Christian with an air mattress pump.

"Police found the body under a layer of concrete, covered with lime and a Bible resting on his chest."

We live close to the area , our grand daughter went to the same school years ago. I have a grandson the same age as Christian and looks like him ,blond and small of body . I tear up each time i read more of his story and how he fell through the system cracks.Neighbors called CPS. nothing was done to protect the kid.You read about people being treated like Christian was in other 3 rd world countries , not in a civilized country.

I am a christian and just accept Gods will. I will admit sometimes I question how he can permit some of these things, yet I still trust and belive him. I do want some answers in the hereafter, and know we will be given them.
All the same, I would like to be locked in the same cell as the father for just a couple of minuets, and I am old, crippled and somewhat feeble.

I am of the opinion and belief that some folks get away with this type of thing in this life but can't escape the judgement of the next.

As much as it bothers me I can sometimes understand how people find themselves in horrible situations and react out of ignorance, stupidity, fear, or whatever and commit an act that none of us would consider to be sane.

But this . . . to my mind there is a difference between evil and insane. And a pattern of such abuse over such a period of time shouts "evil" to me - not "crazy". There are those who just refuse to accept that there are truly evil people in this world and that 'anyone who would do something like that must be crazy'. That says more about the outlook and unrealistic viewpoint of the observer than the actor. There are sociopaths among us. They are evil. Even a delusional person over a long period of time will debate his own sanity and have flashes of doubt and remorse. Not so with the other type . . . but they know it's wrong or they wouldn't try to hide their deeds. Evil loves the dark and shuns the light.

This case and others like it is a strong argument for a "Death Squad" IMHO.

Lets say we all were passengers on a airliner of 200 souls. The plane develops a problem and the pilot ditchs us on a secluded island. For some reason there is not much hope of rescue. We have a couple that act out and do something horrible like that. Do we pen them up, share our short food supply with them and post guards, or do we eliminate the problem? The cost of prisioners that have done horrific stuff like that must be tremendous in this country. I think we are the insane ones to put up with the liberal bleeding heart type PC crowd that allows this.

A subject near and dear to my heart.

I've worked violent crime matters on Indian reservations for the past 13 years of my almost 20 years in the FBI. Probably half of those cases are either child sexual abuse or physical child abuse. Some are murders of kids, and some don't fit into any neat category. I've had cases of kids eaten by dogs and many other deaths by various misadventures. I've seen more than my share of dead kids, raped kids, beaten kids - you get the picture

I have three kids. They are almost grown now - 20, 18, and 14. I love them more than life itself.

I remember talking to an older agent who had been in Indian Country for a while when I was starting to work this stuff. He was so frustrated with his own kids - how could they cry about a skinned knee when he just talked to a kid who had suffered far worse?

Right then and there I had one of the few epiphanies of my life. I realized I had a finite amount of compassion in me. Others may have an endless supply. I don't.

From that moment on, I adopted a new policy that has kept me sane and my kids happy. I call it the doctrine of "Not my kid, not my problem."

It worked like this: When I would deal with a little victim, alive or dead, I would literally count out that mantra on my fingers. Not my kid. Not my problem. Over and over again.

I do my job - I get the story and I lock up the bad guys when I can. But I can't fix people who don't sleep under my roof. I feel bad for them, but Not My Kid, Not My Problem.

Now I don't have to count it out, and I only rarely have to remind myself.

My frustrated friend has a strained relationship with his now grown kids.

I don't.

That's what worked for me.

I feel bad for the Choate kid, but....................

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

^^^THIS^^^

I could not have come up with a better analogy. Everytime I read what the federal, state, and local prison costs us each year I want to throw up my lunch.

More proof that too many people breed simply because they feel they have to even though they have no interest in being a parent.

Good and evil, it's out there for sure.
Children as victims is the one thing that hurt me the most while working.
It never goes away. Pray, it helps.

The helpless children and senior citizens mostly have no one that cares about them or willing to help except the "Badge Carriers". The "Protect and Serve" is more to me than words. I take it personally when criminals hurt those that look to me for protection. I always told myself "Not in My Town or County will you animals run free and do your evil".

From that moment on, I adopted a new policy that has kept me sane and my kids happy. I call it the doctrine of "Not my kid, not my problem."


I spent a number of years as a child abuse detective and later supervising a child abuse task force. I developed a similar mantra, as did most I worked with, as a coping mechanism necessary to do our jobs. I was often asked how I kept from inflicting some "street justice" on the vile animals we dealt with. One of the most distasteful parts of the job was doing the exact opposite. I buried my true feelings/ emotions and did my best to "befriend, sympathize with, and relate" to my new "friends". If I was able to build a "relationship" I was much more likely to secure a confession and reduce the probability a young victim would have to go through the trama of a trial, and increase the probability of a conviction should there be a trial.
My experience was that most of my new "friends" were self centered, immature, and quick to blame the victim. I've had grown men tell me they were "seduced" by a 3 year old. Babies, toddlers, and children beaten, or worse, because they wouldn't obey and couldn't be otherwise controlled.There's always something, other than themselves, to blame.
The victim, alcohol, drugs, society, you name it. Periodically I ran into the (usually young) person under stress, responsible for a child, that under whatever instant circumstance loses it and shakes or otherwise assaults that child and is remorseful. I found those to be a small minority.
I have no sympathy for someone who abuses a child. I wish all my "friends" of my past nothing but the worst.
My "mantra" worked for me while I needed it to do the job. I find it doesn't work so well with the memories now, after retirement.

__________________
SWCA #1917

Sigp220 and Xray, as a retired cop I have to say I am quite proud of you two. In the begining of my career, I was able to distance my self. Towards the end, I fought back tears, when it came to children. Even something as benign as removing children from a hopeless junkie, assisting child services, watching children wail would get to me.

Just before I retired I responded to a family dispute. I got into the apartment. There was blood all over the place. A woman about 5' tall was laying in a pool of blood from multiple stab wounds, mainly to the chest area. Apparently her husband thought she was cheating on her. He stabbed her with a mop, the mop part came off and just the metal was on the mop stick. He fled the scene, I got a script of the perp, put it over the air and he was apprehended 6 blocks away.

As I was waiting for EMS, I was watching her die. I couldn't render any aid, there were so many gaping stab wounds on her. I watched her convulsing, trying to take in some air, her eyes rolling into the back of her head. I am not a church goer, but when seeing people in death throes, I would silently pray for them. EMS got there just in time to pronounce her DOA.

A few months ago, my Mom had breathing problems, She was hospitalized a few times. The doctors led us to believe she had emphysema, COPD etc and put her on oxygen therapy. I thought, ok, she will just have to have an oxygen bottle. She then went to the hospital again by bus, her lung was collapsing and the Dr at this rinky dink Country Hospital told my Dad he didnt have the equipment to handle this. She was transported To VA's MCU.

There, after tests, we found out she had inoperable terminal stage 4 cancer of the lungs, liver, bone etc. She was riddled with cancer. My parents do not believe in prolonging life. She was at this hospital for a few days, within the 2nd day, she was placed on life support. Upon consultation with the Doctors and numerous tests, we found it was hopeless. Within this short time period, I went from thinking emphysema to learning she was passing. She was removed from life support.

While I watched her pass, instead of a peaceful passing like I imagined, she suffered. She was highly medicated, but I watched her gasp for breath, her chest convulsing, and unconcious. She looked like that poor little woman who was violently murdered, instead of someone passing peacefully. It was horrible I felt as if she was brutally stabbed and dying. She died last month.

Sorry for the long winded straying off topic thread. I guess I was trying to show how job experiences effect you for the rest of your life.

__________________
Fidelis Ad Mortem

I understand your feelings toward the end of your career completely. I think many of us experienced similar emotions. I'm truly sorry for the pain you suffered watching your mother pass. I can think of little worse than that experience. I wish you peace for the remainder of your retirement my friend.

__________________
SWCA #1917

you think that's bad-try doing my job-talk about having to choke back the vomit every so often. Kids are the absolute worst. I've had days when I wanted to go home and scrub myself with sand after having to deal with some of my clients.

__________________
Forum consigliere

I can understand that Cajun. Cop's will pretend to be friendly or even side or identify with a perp to garner information. But cops are doing it to get a conviction, whereas a lawyer has to pretend that he doesn't want to slice the perps throat, yet does it to defend them.

Xray, thanks for your kindness.

__________________
Fidelis Ad Mortem

You HAVE to be able to tun it off if you work these cases....and I have worked many of them.....
Everyone needs to know there is true evil in the world...I have seen it, I have looked into the eyes of evil more than once....anyone who says different has NO IDEA what they are talking about......
Some folks are mean, some folks are dangerous, some folks, VERY FEW folks, are pure evil......there is a difference

Like I have said before, I am not a church goer, but do believe in good and evil. Where I come from we call psychos EDP's (emotionally disturbed persons) There were one or two that I swear were posessed, if that is actually possible. I remember one edp that I encountered on a lone midnight foot post in a Brooklyn housing project, his eyes terrified me, quoting bible verses etc, highly, highly agitated. It was my first year otj I was 5'10 and 140 lbs. This guy was 6'5 and close to 300 lbs. Luckily for me he started breaking out windows with his arms and hands.

__________________
Fidelis Ad Mortem