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Old 08-05-2011, 11:50 AM
JOERM JOERM is offline
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Default How can one shoot himself accidentally?

You hear quite often that someone shoots themself accidentally because they didn't "know" the gun was loaded. Some even get away with murder because of this reasoning.

I just read that it once again happened in Kent, WA. A man "inadvertently" shot himself in the groin on Thursday.

The man was handling his own handgun that he thought was unloaded when it went off. The idiot was transported to a hospital to be treated for non-life threatening injuries. And here is the kicker, "He is not expected to be charged for the incident." If he were to be charged what kind of charge should it be? I'd say he should never be allowed to handle a gun while in the present of other people, would you want hang with this guy?

I don't even want to think why he didn't know the gun was loaded and for sure don't want to think about why he was pointing the dang thing at his gut!

It's bad enough with all the shootings going on giving gun owners a bad name let along stupid stunts like this. Ok, I can agree that an accidental discharge, AD, can happen once maybe twice in a life time but if you obey the first rules, "Aways treat a gun as if it is loaded, and always point it in a safe direction", then hopefully things should work out ok. Not a difficult thing to remember and to follow.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:21 PM
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A lot of "I accidentally shot myself" injuries were actually inflicted by a wife or significant other.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:52 PM
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Honk on Mr. Trigger, gun goes boom; call it an accident. Where was the accident? The gun did what it was designed to do.

It's time that people take responsibility for their own actions. These guns are firing because the trigger is being pulled. And yes it can happen to anyone who forgets gun safety.

But pointing a gun at yourself AND pulling the trigger is behavior best reserved for the terminally stupid or the suicidal. I have sympathy for the latter but not the former.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:54 PM
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It's bad enough with all the shootings going on giving gun owners a bad name let along stupid stunts like this. Ok, I can agree that an accidental discharge, AD, can happen once maybe twice in a life time but if you obey the first rules, "Aways treat a gun as if it is loaded, and always point it in a safe direction", then hopefully things should work out ok. Not a difficult thing to remember and to follow.[/QUOTE]

Rule #3 would help a lot too. "Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on your target and you are ready to fire".

I think these people should be charged with Terminal Stupidity.
Rehabilitation is, unfortunately, impossible.
Jim
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:59 PM
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A visual example of how someone just shoots themselves.

[Video contained profanity] edited phil
GF

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 08-05-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:59 PM
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"Inadvertently shot himself in the groin" could have been sticking the gun into his waistband. That, I understand, is the reason for the heavy "New York" trigger on a Glock. If you have your finger on the trigger (thereby taking the safety off) and put the gun in your waistband, you can easily shoot yourself with the standard trigger.

"What kind of charge?" Attempted suicide. Discharge of a firearm inside the city limits. Reckless discharge of a firearm. I'm sure there are other things he could be charged with.

Many people (especially those with little gun experience) have made the stupid assumption that removing the magazine empties the gun. Then there are the people that have all of their experience with S&W autos, Browning Hi Powers, Ruger Mark IIIs, and other guns of that type stupidity, that have magazine disconnects. Then they get a gun without one, and based on all their experience, they think pulling the magazine makes it safe, and they don't even check the chamber.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:11 PM
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How? The same way someone can hit the clutch instead of the brake, etc. People are not perfect. No matter how much we rehearse, practice, etc., absolute perfection is in this life an expectation that is guaranteed to be disappointed. Why do carpenter hammers have claws? You know. Even the best carpenters will bend some nails. Calling people who have AD/ND's stupid, etc. is pointless. When people from a wide variety of backgrounds engage in activity that is potentially dangerous, it is unreasonable to expect that sooner or later there will not be some sort of incident where a less than attentive individual accidentally discharges a firearm. Best thing everyone can do is just try to stay safe! Cheers!
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOERM View Post
I just read that it once again happened in Kent, WA. A man "inadvertently" shot himself in the groin on Thursday.

If he were to be charged what kind of charge should it be?
Making a dead weapon without a license.

John
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:41 PM
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I am not condoning negligent discharges but unfortunately 'stuff" happens.

Why do people get in car accidents, chop off a foot while mowing, cut of a limb with a power saw, take the wrong amount of medicine. Put out a eye using power equipment (lack of safety glasses)????????????????????????????????????

The list goes on and the emergency rooms are full.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:01 PM
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I'll tell ya how my roomate did it last year,
Racked the slide on his Beretta 92, bullet fell out of chamber, dropped magazine, placed gun near hand & pulled trigger. Shot out a knuckle on his left (dominate) hand. Dude got all caught up in running the gun through it's motions, forgot about actually looking in the chamber.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:03 PM
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Good question.

Here is a DEA agent giving safety lessons to school children. He inspects his pistol to ensure it is empty, and also has it inspected by another. He then shoots himself.


DEA Cop Shoots Himself
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Good question.

Here is a DEA agent giving safety lessons to school children. He inspects his pistol to ensure it is empty, and also has it inspected by another. He then shoots himself.


DEA Cop Shoots Himself
What a way to teach the children!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
What a way to teach the children!!
What better way to teach than by example?
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:46 PM
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One would think it would never happen to them if they followed the 2 simple rules of never pointing the muzzle in an un-safe direction and always treating the gun as if it were loaded. I agree.

Reality is, that we are still human, subject to a lapse in concentration or subject to being distracted, if only for a moment. Therein lies the flaw. Some of the safest and most highly trained gun handlers still experience accidental discharges from time to time. Sometimes it is due to mechanical failure. Other times it is a result of the flaw (being human).

Thankfully, most of the time the bullet flies harmlessly off into a berm or the ground. Sadly, in a few instances the gun handler is shot. If he is luckly he lives to tell about it, giving us all cause to take a moment to reflect on our own gun handling practices and do a reality check. Hopefully, as a result, we are made safer through knowledge of this other persons bad experience.

When I hear of these instances I try and say quietly in my own thoughts,"but for the grace of GOD, there goes I".
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:53 PM
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Inspector John A. Rector, US Border Patrol was shot and killed by a fellow Border Patrolman in 1956:

John A. Rector - CBP.gov

Anyone care to guess who the offender was?

(Clue - he was really tall, fast on the draw, and wrote a popular book on gunfighting)

The "negligent discharger" in this case went on to a pretty distinguished career. I was told his actions that day deeply troubled him until the end of his days.

Stuff happens.
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Old 08-05-2011, 04:32 PM
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I've investigated a number of "accidental" shootings that involved people practicing fast draw with an old west holster and single action gun. Usually ended up shooting themselves in the foot or leg. Haven't heard of this lately, perhaps it was a fad that died out.
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Old 08-05-2011, 04:40 PM
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That video cracks me up every time I see it! He is one tough guy though! As to the accident that bill jordan was in, I seen my best friend pull the same thing but the bullet didnt hit anybody. He also was a gun person and a cop! We had been together in a sporting goods store and I had bought a set of grips for my s&w model 60. His house was nearby and we went there and I changed the grips in front of him. I had unloaded the gun, put on the grips and laid the gun down on the coffee table between us. Bill picked it up and dry fired at a picture of a moose on a rug nailed to the wall. Okay. Right in front of him, looking him in the eye I reloaded as we BS`ed. I made the mistake of not putting the gun back in my pocket but left it on the table probley as I was squashed deep in the couch and was going to put it in my pocket when I got up. We talked awhile and bill reached over and picked up the gun again. I thought he was again wanting to get another feel of the grips as he had a similar gun. All the sudden he raises the gun and shot the moose again as I bellered, HEY! He said, "Well ya rotten ----"! He for awhile, honestly belived I had set him up and tricked him! Thats another way accidents happen, and it sounds just the same as what happened in jordans story.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:16 PM
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I know of two "cleaning their gun accidents" that were in fact a wife shooting the husband and a suicide.

I also know of a true "accidental" hanging that was publicized as a hanging on purpose. Sometimes it goes the other way too.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:22 PM
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I guess it can happen the same way a man committed suicide by shooting himself in the head TWICE with a bolt action hunting rifle.

It all depends on who is ruling on the incident at the time. Not all investigators take the time to figure entry wound angles, distance measurements and such.

But I can see someone shooting their own self in the groin.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:28 PM
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Default Familiarity

I use to teach the CCW course here in LA, and naturally talked a good deal about gun safety.

One of the points I tried to make with each class was that probably the person most likely to have a Negligent Discharge were those who were totally ignorant about guns, and those who had handled them, used and generally been around them for a long time.

The first group because of lack of knowledge, and the second group because of that old saying (in the Navy, at least) "familiarity breeds contempt."

If you handle guns enough, over a long period of time, you're going to find yourself at some point in a situation where you have a loaded gun in your hand, but aren't consciously aware of it.

Which calls to mind something I saw as a "signature" on another forum: "it's not the things you don't know that are the most dangerous, it's the things you think you know, that simply aren't true, that are going to come back and bite you in the a**."

Never take gun safety for granted...but also recognize the limitations we humans share.

If you can ask: "how could anyone be so stupid?".....stand by!
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6mm6 View Post
I know of two "cleaning their gun accidents" that were in fact a wife shooting the husband and a suicide.
I went to a death investigation class several years ago where the chief medical examiner for Bexar Country, Texas, said he suspected every single "gun cleaning accident" death he'd seen was a suicide. Either the dead guy himself would set it up (for insurance or family reasons) or the family would find a suicide victim and put some gun cleaning stuff around before calling the cops.

If you think about it, it would be pretty hard to fatally shoot yourself while cleaning a gun.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:48 PM
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Sig, you know I never thought closely about the family makeing a suicide look like a accident. I suspect that happens a lot!
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feralmerril View Post
Sig, you know I never thought closely about the family makeing a suicide look like a accident. I suspect that happens a lot!
Feral, It gets worse. Often times a family member living in a nursecare facility will pass away immediately after being returned to the facility by family members. It usually gets rulled as an accidental overdose while unsupervised. The life insurance pays, the estate is divided and nobody goes to jail.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:09 PM
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Oldman, I have lived a sheltered life! Did you ever see the movie, amos where kirk douglas plays a old man in a nurseing home that is killing their fiesty patents when they run out of money? Interesting movie!

Amos Plot Summary and Details | Moviefone
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default "Gonna clean my UZI....."

...so he got his cleaning stuff out on the coffee table, sat down on the couch and proceeded to pull his UZI out of its case...muzzle first! Since an UZI fires from an open bolt, we can assume the bolt was open and there was a round in the magazine. Pulling the weapon from a case probably caused the trigger to snag, release the bolt and fire the gun, killing its owner with a single bullet to the chest. True story. Accidental? No, just gross and fatal negligence.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:40 PM
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A friend of my son, both grown men, shot himself in the hand while cleaning his semi auto pistol. He was trying to work the slide to clear the chamber and some how pulled the trigger at the same time. The bullet went through without hitting any bones and lodged in a wall.
Steve W
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOERM View Post
Y
The man was handling his own handgun that he thought was unloaded when it went off. The idiot was transported to a hospital to be treated for non-life threatening injuries. And here is the kicker, "He is not expected to be charged for the incident." If he were to be charged what kind of charge should it be?
Former NY Giants receiver Plaxico Burris was just released after serving two years for "Attempted Weapons Possession". He accidentally shot himself in the thigh in a nightclub. He was carrying the gun in his waistband and it slipped down his pants leg and went off in his trousers.
He did not have a license to carry in New York. He had a Florida CCW but it had expired.

I'm thinking if it was you or me, we would not have been arrested. Fined maybe, but two years?! That ain't right.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:39 PM
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I see Plaxico is going to the J-E-T-S jets. Good luck with that Rex!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
One would think it would never happen to them if they followed the 2 simple rules of never pointing the muzzle in an un-safe direction and always treating the gun as if it were loaded.
The act of holstering sometimes violates the first.

...
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:31 AM
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They just had a guy stick his girlfriends pink pistol in his pants and managed to shoot himself in his P----s , bullet went through the p-word through his leg and exited. Some of the expressions on folks interviewed
were kinda funny. Maybe he was training for "sharpshooter" Frank
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:31 AM
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I thought the only way to shot yourself accidentally was by using a glock.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
Dude got all caught up in running the gun through it's motions, forgot about actually looking in the chamber.
I took the required 12 hour course for CHL in Ohio a while back. In the first four hours of the course, the instructor "taught" us basic gun handling and safety skills. He showed us how to load and unload a gun, etc.

Never once did he say "And always inspect the chamber with the magazine ejected to ensure that the gun is unloaded." I was mystified by the omission of this simple and obvious statement of gun safety. Teaching people to use their eyes to ensure a gun is unloaded should be foremost, but for this instructor, it wasn't even worth a mention.

The video of the DEA agent shooting himself with a Glock in front a room full of children (hilariously, *right after* saying he was the only one in the room professional enough to handle the gun) is a failure to follow the statement above. They inspected the chamber, but they did so with the magazine in the gun. As expected, the loaded magazine readily provided a cartridge for the action to stuff into the chamber as soon as the slide was released, and he shot himself.

I not only use my eyes to verify that my gun is unloaded with the magazine ejected, but I have another layer of safety: I cycle the slide at least twice. And then I inspect the chamber and look down the grip (if possible) again.

However, I am human and I make mistakes. Like another poster, I hear about these incidents and think "There but for the grace of God go I."
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:37 PM
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http://www.metacafe.com/watch/129464...lf_accidently/
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:41 PM
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The only one professional enough to carry the Glock
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:15 PM
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As Jeff Cooper said, "The only gun I KNOW is unloaded is one which I have personally unloaded and inspected, and hasn't left my hands since".

Bill Mahnke SWCA #1915
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:06 AM
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It was a bad idea for Chandler, Ariz., citizen Joshua Seto, 27, to stuff his fiancée’s pink handgun into the waistband of his pants for an excursion to Fry's Food Store. According to ABC15, Seto packed his fiancée’s pink gun in the waistband of his pants to get ready for an excursion to Fry's Food Store in Phoenix. The gun went off, all but cutting Seto's penis and wounding his left leg. Man accidentally shoots own penis with pink pistol. A really shocking news, not because the man shot his own penis but bringing a gun in public place is prohibited. Accidents do happen, but we need to make sure that we handle it well. The man needs to be investigated because why did he bring that weapon in the public place. Always treat firearms as though they are loaded, If you are going to carry a handgun on your person, use a holster, not your waistband.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:18 AM
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That last one makes no sense.

Didn't Arizona just pass "unlicensed concealed carry"? And hasn't Arizona always been "unlicensed open carry"? If you can't carry in a "public place", what's the sense of carrying? If I'm not inside my house, I'm pretty much in a "public place".
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:52 AM
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Yo - Scott
They are in ARIZONA -- You're thinking of somewhere else (Illinois perhaps?)

Other than something being seriously wrong with the gun:
THE only way to have an AD is to pull the trigger with the safeties off.
This is usually accomplished by having one's finger in the trigger guard when it shouldn't be.

Fitz type revolvers, however, should never be put into your waistband.

This is a very good argument for the 1911, btw.
Revolver = 1 safety
Glock = 1 safety (despite what they'd like you to believe about the appendage on the trigger)
1911 = 3 safeties

If Ruger wanted to print something actually useful on their barrels it would be:
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD UNTIL THIS WEAPON'S SIGHTS ARE ALIGNED WITH YOUR INTENDED TARGET.
Introducing the Ruger Buntline Special
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:23 PM
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I remember reading a story about a guy that shot himself in the stomach with a long barreled Ruger single action...went to cock the gun one handed and let the grip slip out of his hand but his finger was still in the trigger guard and tripped the hammer just as the gun pivoted down and pointed at his mid section. I have a 7 1/2" Vaquero and can see how that could easily happen if you fumble the grip when firing one handed.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:06 PM
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I posted this once before but it seems like it fits this thread too.

Back in the days when the 1911 was the issued side arm a friend was doing roving patrol. At some point during the midnight till 4 am watch he was practicing fast draws from the old flap holster. I’m sure he was pretty surprised when he pulled that 45 out of the holster by the trigger and it went bang.

I came in the next morning and people were talking about the guard who shot himself, I knew many/most of the guards and was part of the selection process for personnel reliability. I was trying to think of who it would have been to kill himself, when I heard them talking about getting 19 stitches!
My brain was working slow, how do you shoot yourself with a 45 and fail to kill yourself?

The round went in below the knee and came out above the ankle never hitting bone. The CO was pretty cool about it and figured the pain and embarrassment was enough of a lesson so he was given a minimal penalty instead of a raking through the coals.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:14 PM
therevjay therevjay is offline
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How can someone shoot himself accidentally? Ahhh, accidentally?
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:47 PM
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imjin138 imjin138 is offline
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I know one man who was into cowboy action&fast draw he had an italisn clone of the Colt SAA and placed it in his holster cocked. Drew it with finger on the trigger and boom went a round grazing the meaty part of his rear.

He switched to vaqueros because they have a transfer bar.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:51 PM
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sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imjin138 View Post
I know one man who was into cowboy action&fast draw he had an italisn clone of the Colt SAA and placed it in his holster cocked. Drew it with finger on the trigger and boom went a round grazing the meaty part of his rear.

He switched to vaqueros because they have a transfer bar.
If he thinks a cocked Vaquero won't go off when he pulls the trigger, he's in for a surprise!
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1911, beretta, browning, cartridge, ccw, colt, concealed, glock, jordan, model 60, patrolman, ruger, saa, sig arms, swca, vaquero

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