Money has a way of burning holes in pockets and getting frittered away.

Seems like it makes sense to buy quality guns, not for their appreciation, but as a type of forced savings.

Only problem is that I would feel uncomfortable parking a large portion of my savings in something that depends on a collector market.

But it does make me feel just great when I buy a classic at market rates knowing that I am not throwing money away.

Others think the same as I do?

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Well. I figure they'll always be worth something.

__________________
John 3:16 .

If you aren't looking to make huge gains off of them then yes it's a forced savings plan. They usually appreciate a little and if well cared for they usally never go down in value.

quality guns only go up in value.
you put your money in something that you can shoot and enjoy, or merely admire. either way, you have something that is a guaranteed investment and a hands-on source of pride as opposed to other investments that you cannot hold in a physical sense.

Cash is king. I like guns but time has shown that I could get along nicely on fewer rather than more. They retain value better than most things but are still a bit hard to move quickly and easily. Not to mention that prospective buyers may not share your estimate of their worth.

You can get 'upside down' on guns too.

They make a fine hobby, though.

...general, tend to be poor investments; especially if they're "typical" standard models.

You first have to bear the depreciation of any new retail product. The appreciation will start to occur some years down the road. While this is happening, the time value of money will beat your initial investment to death.

If you happen to need cash from your "investment', you will likely have to sell one or more at a loss. Gun buyers will only want to pay wholesale for your retail purchase, and you've already lost some on the fact that these are "used" guns. Never mind that you may describe them as "unfired, new in box". Unique models may also bring a premium, but it takes a long time for the curve to move upward more quickly than stocks, mutual funds, exchange-based funds, or bonds.

Commemoratives aren't really any better. They bring a slight premium when new, but depreciate just like standard versions.

With investments like stocks, the overall records show growth. Yes, there will be years that you may "lose" money, but overall records show good growth. With IRA's, and 401k's, your money is tax deferrred.

For most collectors, or "amassers", it's a hobby. You spend your money, and get no tax benefits.

How "perfect" is the market in the economics sense?

Except for transactions costs it seems good to within about 20%

Buy a nice gun for $500 and you should be able to turn it around for between $400 and $600

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Works for me.

It's FUN anyway. Some people Boat, Golf, Airplanes, Street Rods, Go to Vegas, Casinos or travel extensively, Support Divorce Lawyers, whatever.

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

My point is not growth.
Rather, fun and forced savings at the same time!

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

I am over 70 years old. I was a avid gun nut buying and selling back in 60s untill the mid 80s. It was a lot better compared to now.
First it makes all the differance in the world knowing what to buy. Some will run away in price down the road and the rest might drop in value. I was lucky and seemed to always have a "nose" in what to buy and what to stay away from. It seemed the very models that I liked always went up in value much more than the other guns. It`s a long deep subject and the short answer is you would be better off in the stock market untill you get a lot of experiance that comes from years of watching and reading.
I will say probley my biggest mistake early in the game was being a chiseler and passing up some mighty good stuff for the sake of 20 or 50 dollars! By, the way, I should have said first thing here, I dont belive I would try the saveings plan buying new guns, but old nice condition unaltered classic`s.

I don't think there is one answer. How good are you at walking gun shows and zeroing in on the peach, leaving road apples on the table? The earlier advice about buying mundane, field grade guns produced in volume is right on target. They don't increase in value.

Part of this has been driven home to me over the years. Invariably some poor fool dies and his widow needs someone to help her value and dispose of his guns. I now dread it, and suggest the grieving widow take them to the nearest gun shop and just take what they offer. It causes so much less trouble, and they usually offer about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the retail price of the used guns. And its what your own spouse will be lucky to get out of the deal. If you buy new toys, selling them for as much or more will be a very long and difficult trial for her.

I'm supposed to be experienced at all this, but my pricing is just over my costs (usually) to let me reduce my price and make my buyer think I've given him a great deal. You can read that as "no profit."

The real problem with most guns will be their lack of liquidity. You can sell them quickly at a big loss. Over time, you can even sell them fairly quickly at a profit. But it takes years for them to go up in value enough to do that. Good knowledge and buying skills help a lot in all this. If you think you can buy a gun and then turn it back over at the next gun show, you're just mistaken. If you die, and your widow is put in that position, I'd suggest you make friends with David Carroll and Lee Jarett.

They specialize in buying collections, or the better parts of collections and then remarketing them. They somehow seem to be able to sell guns for more than a lot of other people. It has to do with reputation, connections, and them spending a lot of unseen money traveling, buying factory letters, etc. You can't do that.

So your plan on buying guns probably needs some pretty good advice from experts, not your gut feeling that 1970s era M10s will be great values and easy to sell.

Yes, you can save money in arms if you do it correctly. If you do it poorly, you can also lose money. I'd guess a lot more misguided folks buy the wrong guns. Then they can't figure out where they went astray.

A couple of years ago Massad Ayoob wrote an article on this very subject. I respected him a lot more before he quoted me in it. It might be to your advantage to get a copy and read it.

__________________
Dick Burg

Although I've never made more than a few bucks selling a gun, I've probably lost much more trading.
OTOH - A gun just might save you much more than money someday.

__________________
In dog years I'm dead.

I figure money spent buying guns is at least as good as good as money in a savings account. I do intend to sell some for a profit, someday.

So your just like the rest of us

__________________
Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

If you are talking new guns, probably not. Unless you plan to hold them for 50 years. However if you are talking older collectable type guns - S&Ws in particular I would say yes they are a good investment - but of course this assumes you buy them "right". Most of my guns have doubled if not trippled in value over the past 15-20 years. Unfortunately none of my other investments have performed this well........ (I wasn't smart enough to buy gold)...

I have been very fortunate in my gun collecting. I have a humble collection of USGI M1 carbines that I've acquired in the past 25+ years. Fortunately, M1 carbines are one of the few specific firearms that have significantly increased in market value and there has been an increasing steady demand and corrilating price escalations. If I were to offload my collection today I would experiance a signficant return on my investment.

__________________
- Change it back -

Again
I am not talking appreciation (monetary that is)
I am talking buying guns here and there at the "market" price as an alternative to frittering it away.

For example. I have no "need" for a Ruger No. 1 RSI in .308, but if I got one for $700 and sold it for $650 five years from now I would then have $650 in my pocket.

If I put the $700 in my pocket today there is a very good chance it would dwindle to less than $650 5 years from now.

Of course, Sal and Iggy know I am just rationalizing my next gun purchase.

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Oh, well--if you are talking about churning and plowing " gun money" back into more guns, rather than blowing it on trivial stuff like food and medicine--that's a whole different deal. Every time I sold a gun and just " kept the cash" the cash always went down a hole somewhere. Never could account for where it went in the end...so I prefer to "reinvest" gun money.

I've never been up against it to where I had to dump guns to keep us alive, but that's just by the grace of God.

But I do know they won't all fit in my coffin.

I keep telling my wife "I'll never lose money on this gun if I buy it!".

Her response "You ever gonna sell it? No,then I consider it a lose right from the start until you sell it which you will never do, and why are you trying to pull that **** on me again-don't you have enough guns already? Just put it back down and keep moving."

Can't argue with that logic, or at least I can't win against it!


Look! My 500th post!!!

__________________
Good life will not Heaven get!

I had several Mosin Nagant rifles (5), and when my Dr. told me I need to think about my shoulders (tendinitus in both) I decided to sell them. Seems the price had severly spiked and I sold all 5 for a PROFIT of almost $500 (which I immediayly spent on a Marlin 39A lever action rifle)! Now the price of those same guns have dropped back down to where I would have still made money, but not nearly as much.

__________________
Good life will not Heaven get!

What is your wife doing in a place where you might buy a gun?

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Is buying guns a viable savings plan?

Heck, yeah!

(Hey! This is a gun forum, right?!)

Why not? She shoots also, and on ocassion takes in a gun show with me.

Are you saying a wife isn't allowed to be around guns?

__________________
Good life will not Heaven get!

I would speculate that guns will hold its own in value. That is to say moderate increase in value. It depends upon such factors as how the gun laws will be in the future and scarcity of the particular firearm. Military arms always do well as they are fairly desirable and if the governing laws prohibit these from being resold to the public, demand will increase.

I think the Beretta's will become attractive to collectors for their history and all metal construction. Not to say metal frames are more durable then polymer but in this era, there will be a glutton of polymer firearms.

One example that comes to mind is tube technology. In the 70s everyone was hyping semiconductor technology, yet today tube pieces are highly desirable as those guitar enthusiast know.

I have always considered my gun accumulation an inflation hedge. Guns go up in value, but most of the increase, in my opinion, is inflation. True, rarity, supply & demand, and other factors come into play also. But, there are transfer fees, transporatation, and other factors that affect that.
When I buy a gun today, I feel that I have bought a tangible item that is secure against inflation, not an investment.

Tom

As I stated eariler in this thread you won't make hugh gains on a consistant basis buying guns but the downside is small. There are a few things to keep in mind and that is buying new is a losing proposition because it's like buying a car and that is there is some depreciation immediately after you buy it. However shopping smart and buying quality used guns lowers that risk and gives you something you can shoot and enjoy. Yesterday I bought a used but mint model 10-5 with 4 inch barrel for $375 and Model 10's are the most common S&W. However, there ain't a lot of mint 38 year old P&R Model 10's with 4 inch barrel out there. Will I make a lot of money off of it and well my guess would be no but I'll never lose money on it and I might make a little.

Cash is king these days and money in the bank is paying next to nothing and the stock market is shaky at best so I don't mind parking some of my money in quality guns.

In the 'short term', rarely. In the 'long term', most likely. First, like any other investment you need to study and learn the product and the market. That means immersing yourself in the 'gun culture' (to use a term I really don't like), check out every forum online you can, get reference material, make friends who are heavily into the gun hobby, ask as many questions as you can. The main thing is to learn to identify choice examples of collectable guns, Smith & Wessons and Colts, Winchesters and early 3 screw Rugers will hold thier values well and only increase in value as the years pass. I can't speak for the newer models as I do not buy them, but the older models in 97% and above are your target market.
Unfortuantely they are also everyone elses target market. Competition gets tougher all the time, but if you have ready cash, do your homework and always remember to buy the best conditon you can get, you won't go wrong.
In the Long Term.
By that I'm talking 10 to 20 years. You may make $50 on a gun in a year or so if you choose wisely, but if you invest 'discrectionary income' in a top shelf, collectable firearm, and have the patience and means to wait a decade or more to sell it, you will come out on top.
Twenty years ago I bought many fine Smith & Wessons, just as a hobby, not speculation. At that time the price range was still reasonable, $250 to $350 for some really fine revolvers. Many of those I still own, now they are worth upwards of double to triple that. They aren't going to go down in value, they may stagnate at a certain price range but will slowly increase as the years go by.
Also, always keep your eyes open for a bargain, have ready cash stuck back to throw down when the situation calls for it. Every now and then a super deal comes along, having $300 or more stuck back in the wallet makes the difference. I walked into a shop a few years back that was about to close and was offered a Model 29-2, S prefix with original Cokes in about 98% condition for $400, I had in on me, that made the difference there, turned out the gun was made in 1963. I'm sure if I put it up for sale here on the board I could easily get $900 for it. Deals like that are rare but do come along, be ready.
Main thing is education, don't buy junk or 'off brands', quality will only increase in value, run of the mill will always stay run of the mill.
RD

__________________
Got a Phd from Hard Knocks U

First installment on the "savings plan"

I took two handguns (that would go for $300 each on Gunbroker on a good day) to my local LGS, kicked in $150 of boot, and came back with a 1955 .308 Winchester 88 after I asked if he had a .308 Savage:

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Mine's not

__________________
Forum consigliere

i have been trying to get my wife to go for this trick too, no it isnt working on mine but you keep trying ok!

__________________
WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

Whether we like to admit to it or not, we owe most of our investment increase to the "anti's".

Gun accumulating is like investing in any other commodity. Anything that causes a reduced supply will cause increased prices for stockpiled goods.

We all have seen supplies of here-to-fore surplus military rifles sell for low dollars compared to what todays market will get. When the anti's succeded in stopping imports of many foreign surplus guns, they guaranteed prices would sky-rocket. Simple supply & demand economy. The risk in this plan for money making or investing is that at any time any one of our favorites could come under the curtain of the next "ban", or worse yet, confiscation.

Jim

Is buying guns a viable savings plan?

That is what I tell my wife each time I bring home another one!!

is buying guns a viable savings plan? Only if you sell them to me. I always pay too much.