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Old 09-14-2011, 10:04 AM
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Default The dreaded Its the gun or me gauntlet...

Has anyone ever had this thrown in their face? I had a good friend years ago that went with me to a gun store. He bought a Taurus 605 and we walked into the range with his free pass for buying a new gun. It was great. He loved it and instantly became another new satisfied gun owner. We used to go to the range at least every other weekend. When his relationship got serious she decided they needed to get married and found a bigger place. Then she found out about his gun Sadly he had no idea how anti gun she was as it had just never come up before. He went around trying to sell it but we all know how great a deal most gun shops will offer you and even worse for the Taurus phobia. So I bought it from him and years later its still a great gun. I can only be thankful that my female half wasnt as anti as his was. Mine has even grown to enjoy them enough that she owns a revolver and a shotgun now. Anyone else want to share a horror story or a tale of romance that a moment of wisdom saved them from???
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:30 AM
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I don't like ultimatums. If she told me, "It's me or the" anything - gun, dog, TV, computer, beer - then it's, "Bye bye".

But I do recall asking a young lady, when it appeared to be getting serious, how she felt about guns. Said I had a bunch, planned on having more, and carried one with me wherever I went. So if she was against guns, we needed to stop it before it went any further.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:32 AM
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When I was a teen I had a 45/45 Harley. I still remember going to work one day at US Steel with a For Sale sign on it. An older guy asked me why I was selling it so I told him - My *fiance* told me it was her or the motorcycle. The old man laid these words of wisdom on me:
"The motorcycle is just the beginning kid - What's next? What will you HAVE to give up after that?"

I kept the bike ........
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:35 AM
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It sounds like time to get a new one. Gun, wife or both.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:41 AM
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When I was a teen I had a 45/45 Harley. I still remember going to work one day at US Steel with a For Sale sign on it. An older guy asked me why I was selling it so I told him - My *fiance* told me it was her or the motorcycle. The old man laid these words of wisdom on me:
"The motorcycle is just the beginning kid - What's next? What will you HAVE to give up after that?"

I kept the bike ........
That was you? I have always wondered if you sold it...
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:58 AM
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It's hardly ever about the gun, dog, motorcycle, whatever. It's a game of control. It's not a fun game for either party and we don't play it here. It's been my experience that the guy who's willing to give up everything to keep her is going to get dumped anyway when she finds a man.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:25 AM
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The three big issues of marriage or just about any relationship are money, sex and power, not necessarily in that order. These have to be decided. The settlement is never equal. Like it or not, few will ever get to have everything their own precise way. Such people are few. They are usually people who go through life alone... or surrounded by weak, dependent people. If one is more committed to self than one's wife, then at best the marriage will suffer. At worst, it will fail. In either case, both husband and wife loose. In a good marriage, both husband and wife learn how to give and take. In a good marriage, there is a lot of give and take... you have to give a lot more than you take and take a lot more than you give! Apart from that, you will have little success in marriage as well as other relationships of life whether career, hobby, etc. You have to decide if you love your wife/husband more than you love a possession. Personally I value my wife. She reciprocates that affirmation. We don't agree on all things. But we work things out. And, if I see that there is something I really care about and think is important but that it is pushing us apart, then whatever it is has to go. Things come and things go. People are not replaceable. We live in a disposable society. But I will not dispose of people... especially my wife. There's no one else like her in this entire world! I will not trash our marriage relationship for anything.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:30 AM
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its a trick ... the answer ultimately will be neither
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DeadAye View Post
When I was a teen I had a 45/45 Harley. I still remember going to work one day at US Steel with a For Sale sign on it. An older guy asked me why I was selling it so I told him - My *fiance* told me it was her or the motorcycle. The old man laid these words of wisdom on me:
"The motorcycle is just the beginning kid - What's next? What will you HAVE to give up after that?"

I kept the bike ........
Good Choice!

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Old 09-14-2011, 11:40 AM
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I dont control other people or tell them what they can or can't do, and I expect the same courtesy.

People who lay down ultimatums such as "It's either me or the whatever" need to realize that they might end up on the losing end of it... but that might be just what they wanted in the first place, only they were too cowardly to do it themselves.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:56 AM
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If you don't like my (guns, motorcycles, cars, etc.), then you don't like me. End of discusssion.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:05 PM
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People who lay down ultimatums such as "It's either me or the whatever" need to realize that they might end up on the losing end of it... but that might be just what they wanted in the first place, only they were too cowardly to do it themselves.
Saw that more than once in service.
Spouse says "If you take that assignment, I'm leaving you".......then leaves regardless.

One buddy turned down 06 to "make peace", and a year later was divorced anyway. She just wanted her friends to think it was his fault.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:10 PM
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If you don't like my (guns, motorcycles, cars, etc.), then you don't like me. End of discusssion.
I agree these things are who you are. No one should make you give up anything you enjoy. Just tell he to get a hobby too.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:12 PM
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Back in the day, I was a...shall we say...a cad. I was seeing a number of women at the same time. The one who I ultimately married has told me a number of times that she never gave me an ultimatum because she wanted to know I CHOSE her. Not because I was forced into it, in any way, shape or form.

She's a wise lady.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:13 PM
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It's hardly ever about the gun, dog, motorcycle, whatever. It's a game of control. It's not a fun game for either party and we don't play it here. It's been my experience that the guy who's willing to give up everything to keep her is going to get dumped anyway when she finds a man.
Yup. That topic comes up from time to time on other forums. I always advise to get out now before it will cost you half your stuff.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:24 PM
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I like to believe that my wife and I are mature enough to make our own desicions. The decisions that can have big consequences are discussed and made together. She also had guns when we started dating.
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:47 PM
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I still do not understand how that subject (and many others) to not come up with some couples before they say "I DO"... seriously, what did they do- date for 5 minutes before getting married?

A friend of mine who has since passed on shared the best version of that scenario I have heard:

After the marriage, his new wife moved-in and discovered he owned guns. She told him: "The guns gotta go!" He smiled and simply replied: "They were here first." She replied: "Does that mean *I* gotta go?!?" He said: "That's up to you."

Long story short, she gave guns a try and quickly became a gun enthusiast and they lived happily ever after!

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Old 09-14-2011, 02:54 PM
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I have tried to use the same philosophy as brucev, if something comes between my wife and I, then it has to go. Damned mother-in-law won't take the hint though. She's like a **** that won't flush, goes round and around but comes back, time and time again.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:00 PM
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I still do not understand how that subject (and many others) to not come up with some couples before they say "I DO"... seriously, what did they do- date for 5 minutes before getting married?

A friend of mine who has since passed on shared the best version of that scenario I have heard:

After the marriage, his new wife moved-in and discovered he owned guns. She told him: "The guns gotta go!" He smiled and simply replied: "They were here first." She replied: "Does that mean *I* gotta go?!?" He said: "That's up to you."

Long story short, she gave guns a try and quickly became a gun enthusiast and they lived happily ever after!

~Harvester
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:20 PM
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When I met my wife she says to me "I like that you trow your guns in to the river" I said my dear, the only thing I trow in is you.
Anyhow we are married for 23 years now and have a guncollection.
So it could be the other way around to. She tought I was worth it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:04 PM
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Over the last couple years i've had a few guys coming in to the shop to sell off guns because their wife wanted them to get rid of those "nasty guns". Can't see that....unless they had a deep psychological fear of weapons and i sure wouldn't want anyone like that in my life. I've told them straight out that they shouldn't put up with that kind of thing but i usually end up buying their guns. Hope they feel it was worth it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:10 PM
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We used to go to the range at least every other weekend. When his relationship got serious she decided they needed to get married and found a bigger place. Then she found out about his gun
How does a guy who likes guns and goes to the range all the time date a woman long enough to marry her but she never knows he has a gun and likes shooting? What else was your buddy hiding from her?
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:56 PM
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That was you? I have always wondered if you sold it...
I think that it's ironic that YOU should come up with that since it's my understanding that you're a cop in Hollywood (?)...

I was living in an apartment at Yucca & Argyle (a block from Hollywood and a block from Vine) when the bike was stolen. The only thing I had left was the cut in two Master Lock - They even took the chain.

Cops came, took a report, and told me to get over it - It's gone.

Not very long after that I was gone too.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:20 PM
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Many years ago, I know'd an old feller that got married.
He had taken a horse and buggy to the church for them to go home in.
They was headed home and the old mare stumbled.
The feller sez "That's once"
They went on their way and the old gal stumbled agin.
"That's twice"
On the third occurance, the ol boy pulls out a pistol and shoots the old mare.
The new bride plumb throws a fit. She chews on him sumthin' fierce.
He sets there plumb quiet until she run out of wind and sed,
"That's once!"
They lived happily ever after....
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:00 PM
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Any "it's me or <whatever thing you like>" before you get married is a great thing. Let's you know you need to bail. Some people just refuse to listen.

How did the guy in the OP's marriage turn out?
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:10 PM
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Would never give up my guns for anyone! Thankfully, my wife is as pro-gun as I am. The only problem we ever had was when I spent money that I shouldn't have to purchase one. She has her CCW permit and I send my revolver with her when she travels alone, which is rare.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:12 PM
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I covered that with my ex prior to the 'I DO' part and then when the time came, they tried to get the house, the cars, the motorcycles, the guns and the dog. The lawyer got the money, the ex got a suitcase.
People that are nuts in their dislike of guns are just plain not right in the head anyway.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:20 PM
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I remember telling my wife when we were dating that I hunted, had guns etc. It helped though that several members of her family hunt, even though she really isn't into that. I also had her shoot a revolver when we were dating and she loved it. The rules of the house are, as long as the bills are paid and the kid is fed, if there is any extra money and I want a gun, well then I can get one. Works that way with the other stuff too, and with what ever she likes.
I used to see alot of this sort of thing of gun shows when helping my friend out. Someone would start to look at a gun and then the missus would get riled and say something like "You're not getting another gun." Or "You're not having one in the house!" Personally if I had someone like that, I wouldn't have her around long.
Remember what Obi Wan Kenobi said "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." So unless you want to be married to Darth Vader, pre-screen your women folk.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:53 PM
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Lots of ammo here.

My mother hated guns. She tolerated them because my dad's only real hobby was hunting and fishing. Most of his time he was working or taking care of us (the kids.) When I was getting married, she tried to interfere. She picked her time when my wife to be and I were at their house. She kind of forcefully said "you're not taking that gun collection with you, are you?" My wife to be didn't bite, she ignored it. Later when mother tried again to impose her anti gun views, she just said she grew up in a house full of guns, and kind of expected we'd have them, too. The gun collection was a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun. I was impoverished by college.

About 10 years later I had a good friend. Ole Hutch was hard on equipment, to say the least. He'd bought a new Jeep in the 77-78 period like a bunch of us. But he'd managed to blow up a few motors. Guess the old 304s weren't up to his abuse. And all the guys would pull together and find him a new motor and put it in. Not rocket science. Junked AMC V8s were cheap.

So one afternoon we were playing up at the dam. Old Hutch got in the throttle a bit much and another one bit the dust. It was about 30 miles from his home. So I did my duty, hooked up my tow rope and started pulling him toward home. I didn't mind, he was a good friend who would do anything for you. But it was still daylight out, so he started blowing the horn about 2/3rds of the way home. He wanted to pull into a car wash while the mud was still soft (its easier to work on a clean vehicle.)

It had the double benefit of it getting dark. One of our following vehicles took the lead and drove down his street, telling us on the CB there was a place open in front of his house, but a better one a block up the road (where we wouldn't have to go past his house.) So we very quietly rolled down the street, him whipping into the spot. But she was waiting and saw. She came out screaming. And with the ultimatum. Either the jeep goes, or she does. And there was no quieting her down.

So he just calmly told her how much he loves her. But then followed it by pointing out if she got away with it, she'd just pull it again and again. Then he told her he'd miss her, but the jeep stays, and he really wanted her to stay, too. They're still married.

I've also heard it said that marriage is just a series of compromises. And you'll make all of them.

But don't feel too sorry for my wife. A couple of years ago (make it 2007) I sold a Colt SAA to one of our members here (his FFL, actually). Then I took the money and bought her a Christmas present with it. A nice pendant, I mean a really nice one. Guns, jewelry, it doesn't really matter any more. The difference is I sold the gun without her knowing about it. Then bought her a present without her knowing. She was gracious and accepted it. The best present I've ever given.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:30 PM
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How does a guy who likes guns and goes to the range all the time date a woman long enough to marry her but she never knows he has a gun and likes shooting? What else was your buddy hiding from her?
It went long distance when the USN moved him to Jax, FL and she stayed in NY. He met me and I try to make a convert of anyone that shows the slightest interest. When she moved South she thought I was a "bad influance" on him with my dangerous hobby. Then he told her about his gun. It went over the course of a week before she was there and the issue came up. So nothing hidden. Just short notice.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:31 PM
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The Old Fella came into the tavern the other day with a hangdog look on his face. I asked him what the problem was. He said his wife had just given him an ultimatum that he had to choose between his fishing and her. I said that was a tough choice. He responded by saying, yes, it was and I sure am gonna miss her!
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:32 PM
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Any "it's me or <whatever thing you like>" before you get married is a great thing. Let's you know you need to bail. Some people just refuse to listen.

How did the guy in the OP's marriage turn out?
I'm just going to plead the 5th on this one. I will admit I know he adores his children.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:51 PM
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F. Scott Fitzgerald, in the Great Gatsby and elsewhere created a fictional poet, Thomas Park D’Invellieres, who wrote:
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce high for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
When I read that in high school, I thought how true! Looking back, I think “What nonsense!,” and suspect that Fitzgerald meant it as the path to a doomed relationship as well.

I think for a marriage to work both people have to be comfortable and accept the other person as they are. My first marriage did not work out. I married young at 23. From my point of view I tried to do everything I could to make my first wife happy, trying to somehow reinvent myself into the man I thought she wanted me to be. By the time I was 30 I was miserable, and so was she. So I left.

I decided that I would stop trying to change myself, something I had done with every girl/woman I had ever been close to up to that point in my life.

Found another gal and after we hit it off I told her, "Look,what you see is what you get. I ain't changin'. Been there and done that and it does not work for me. So though I love you dearly, if you don't like the way I am you'd best leave me." She said, "Okay. I understand. I love you just like you are." She stayed, and I am very happy in my second marriage, now some 20 years in, and so is she. We do not know any other couples as close as we are.

And you know, the funny thing? Without any conscious thought on my part, she has changed me in many ways for the better.

I also believe that all successful marriages are unique: Who the heck knows why some couples succeed while others do not? It is a very individual thing, how two people match up. Often I will think "What does he see in her" or vice versa. At other times I will be surprised that a seemingly perfect couple is separating after many years. For whatever reason, some folks just click, and others do not.. Other people's marriages are a mystery to me, and I imagine mine is to them as well.

Last edited by Onomea; 09-14-2011 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Further thoughts
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:52 PM
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The old man laid these words of wisdom on me:
"The motorcycle is just the beginning kid - What's next? What will you HAVE to give up after that?"
Sounds like a caution applicable to government as well.

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Old 09-14-2011, 09:18 PM
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That is why I always let serious girlfriends know about my gun habit. Those few that got all, "those are evil the must be gotten rid of" were. And I'm not talking about the guns.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:34 PM
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I don't like ultimatums. If she told me, "It's me or the" anything - gun, dog, TV, computer, beer - then it's, "Bye bye".
No one likes an ultimatum. Someone gets away with the first one it's a safe bet there will be others coming down the road sooner or later.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:37 PM
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A number of years ago a good friend (so I thought) gave me a choice between her continued friendship or the person I was then going out with. My response was that before she told me that she had already made the choice. I haven't seen or heard from her since about Sept '87. I guess no loss on my part.
It wasn't one of the marriage type relationships but still I didn't care for being given that kind of choice and it showed me where I stood in the relationship with my friend.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:46 PM
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My dad grew up in the mountains of northern Alabama on a farm/ranch. He hunted to supply the family with meat. He was a Combat Veteran of WWII. He and my mother married in 1947 after he was released from the Army. He spent two years after WWII hunting German War Criminals. After they had been married a couple of weeks, my mother came into the living room and pointed a finger at the bedroom and said, "there's guns in the closet, get them out of here. I won't live in a house with guns". My father went into the bedroom with my mother close behind and went into the closet, took down two large suitcases and opened my mother's chest of drawers and started putting her garmets in one of the suit cases. She ask him what he was doing and he said "Helping you pack to leave". She ask him what he ment and he told her he had lived with firearms all of his life and he wasn't about to give them up, so he figured that she would leave. She didn't.

Thirty three years later we were having a family picnic at a range that I shot on. My dad and my kids and I were shooting. My mother ask how two little girls could shoot a gun and I told because they have been properly taught safety and the mechanics of shooting. She said, "Let me try it".

I let her shoot a little Smith Model 18 and my mother became a die hard shooter that day. My mom and dad spent many a happy day in their later lives shooting at rifle and pistol ranges. After my dad passed, I used to take my mother to an indoor range about once a month so she could pratice with her Smith Model 36 with a three inch barrel I gave her. Her bedside gun.

I got the Smith 36 back when she passed away three years ago, I much rather have her with us than the 36.

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Old 09-14-2011, 09:48 PM
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That is why I always let serious girlfriends know about my gun habit.
I do, too, but I've found it's best if I don't tell them about my wife.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadAye
The old man laid these words of wisdom on me:
"The motorcycle is just the beginning kid - What's next? What will you HAVE to give up after that?"

True statement. I know. I was married at 19. Too young, too immature, and too inexperienced.

I was divorced by 31 after giving up a lot just to keep her happy.

I was single for 7 1/2 years and then met my current wife. She's never made a demand and neither do I, we like each other too much.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:04 PM
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In my marriage I can do anything I want, and I have the wife's permission to say so.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:12 PM
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In my marriage I can do anything I want, and I have the wife's permission to say so.
Guy says to his buddy, "The last time I had an argument with my wife she came begging to me on her hands and knees by the time we were finished arguing."

Buddy says, "Wow! That's great! What did she say?!"

Guy says, "She said, 'Come out from under the bed, you little pansy!'"
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:55 PM
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My ex wife gave me the same ultimatum, at the time I had one pistol and one rifle. Needless to say, she's gone and I have more guns then ever. When I start dating usually about three or four dates into the relationship I bring up the gun/shooting issue by having a range date on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, I usually know where it stands by the end of the afternoon.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:20 AM
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Wife and I bought each other a 50 gun safe a couple of years ago for Christmas....there are exactly 0 empty slots currently and some of the longgun slots are doubled.

Last year I bought her a Belgian Browning A-5 20 for her birthday as she has turned into quite the dove huntress. As I was packing to go dove hunting w/ my son a week or two ago, she walks by and says," Were do you think you're going with MY shotgun?"

The ultimatium I usually get from her is...."When can you buy that one for me?"
Gotta love it.......
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:31 PM
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First of all anyone that will give you that kind of ultimatum doesn't love you anyway. They may love control and they may think they love what they could make of you but it certainly isn't the kind of love that builds a good relationship.

If a line like that is drawn the best thing to do is start backing away, then turn and run. That's my opinion. No doubt influenced by the fact that I don't like ultimatums. Generally if I am told that I must do something then I wont. If someone wants me to do something they can ask and I will consider it unless it is something really way out like getting rid of my guns.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:00 PM
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You may or may not know that this thread is really touching a nerve with me.

I had the final ultimatum last February when it was "Get off the computer or we're getting a divorce." I was in total shock because of the long history we had and I thought the marriage wasn't that bad, all in all. But as I said before, ultimatums are actually already not in your favor or they wouldn't have been thrown down in the first place. It's just an excuse for them not to look like the bad guy.

But it still hurts that they would have such little respect as to do that.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:19 PM
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true Barb ....
My wife is kinda prone to getting a little OCD when she feels overwhelmed ... ive never laid down an ultimatum about it, rather I tell her to sit down in front of something else. its effective in breaking that cycles that get things broke.
she may protest a bit, but in the end play of the game I often hear "thank you, you were right" as she looks upon the past crisis in hindsight. Theres a difference between guidance, and enslavement.
Yeah we are only at the three year mark, but we know we chose each other in spousal roles. I wanted a wife, she wanted a husband.
If we wanted robots as some seem to, parts can be had from Digikey.com so we can build em.
Seems the wife in the mentioned in the OP should take up electronics engineering.
I think I did well, Lord knows Ive walked away from an alarming number that wouldn't have been as fruitful. So numerous that statistical computations leaned toward impossibility.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Dear Ex Wife

Came home late one night and said "I want to sleep with this guy I met, if you won't let me I'm leaving".
I said "I guess you are leaving".
She did and when she moved out she left her guns behind.
No moral to the story, but I think I made out better.
If any brick in the foundation of a relationship isn't securely set the foundation/relationship is bound to fail. Maybe now, maybe later, but it's going to fail.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:32 PM
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I haven't had that come up about firearms in a relationship before, usually because the vetting process (isn't that what the pols call it?) lets me know what to expect before anything goes far enough to develop into something serious (although after the obligatory 3 dates rule, mind you... wouldn't want to cut some things in the vetting process too short).

I have had 2 people in my seakayaking group say that they would never paddle with anyone they knew carried a gun. Which was sort of interesting when I clued one of them in that she had been doing so for at least 2 years and it wasn't just a couple of us and that most who did so were women. She decided to continue going with us. The other one I didn't care about anyway, so I have respected their wishes and curtailed the invitations.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:14 PM
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Back when my wife and I started hanging out together, I knew she wasn't too wild about firearms. Her brother had killed his best friend with an "empty" .22, and everyone in her family was traumatized by it.

However, before we actually got married, we were eating at an Italian restaurant in a seedier part of Seattle. After we were seated, my wife looked around, then leaned over and whispered, "Do you have your gun with you?" I replied yes I did, and I knew everthing would be okay from that point on.

That was 17 years ago. Now, all she knows besides the fact that I've always got one handy, is that some are black, some are silver, and they all have that little wheel that spins in the middle.

She's not sure she could use one against another person, so I've never bought her one of her own. But she knows where to find one of mine, and she knows that all she has to do is point and pull the trigger until the threat has stopped. She has more common sense than the average person, and I wouldn't want to be the one to test her.
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